A recent Board situation here

Erik Sine · November 11, 2007

I think I need to reiterate a couple of points every once in a while after a situation occurs here on this forum as a reminder to all.

As some may have been reading on a couple of threads there has been some arguing going on between LED's vs Neon, and sometimes it tends to get off topic. As the administrator here I have a tendency to let things play out, until it gets to the point of ongoing personal attacks. That is what makes this board differ from others on the web. I will always allow points of view and opinion but not unfounded attacks on members or sponsors or advertisers. If your going to say something negative (constructive criticism is never a bad thing) , you had better back it up with some facts and not jump on board with "so and so sucks because ....(empty)". I'm also real big on warning others of fraud and wrong doing to others, we have had these threads in the past and accusers have always provided proof of it, otherwise they get banned.

My second point is reporting these threads or posts, that have such descriptions about discussed above. You have to remember as a admin, even though I'm logged in I don't read every post and thread, this board is purely a hobby as I have a regular 60hr a week+ job fabricating and installing electric signs. Some are of the idea I do see everything on the board, the truth is, I don't. Unless I've subscribed to that thread or participated in that thread, I don't see it. Some threads get to long or wordy even if I am subscribed, I don't have time to read it.

Every post and thread has a "!Report" button. If you find something offensive, then click it so I can get an instant message letting me know of an offending post or thread. (Note pic below)

Well I may not have hit every point that I would like to, it is the weekend and I have tasks, events, and attention needed elsewhere but I hope everyone gets the point on how I like to run my board in regards to outright personal attacks. I think in the short term of this board there has only been one member ever banned.

In leaving this post, I'd also like to remind everyone who participates on the board, you need to have at times somewhat of a thick skin, or layer your clothes upon entering this forum that I refer to as a "pub", because that's the general attitude here. I will always try to leave in as much as I can when threads go bad for others to make up their own decision and conclusion on topics as well as individuals.

If the board seems to brass at times, like I use to say "The ice cream forums are always down the street."

Erik Sine · November 12, 2007

Well since the start of this thread, I received this which was PM'd to all sponsors and advertisers

As a paying advertiser on www.thesignsyndicate.com I feel you should be aware of this situation as it could happen to you.
As a paying advertiser as well, SVP recently made an announcement that a new product of ours (SVP PREFERRED™ Ultra Premium Electrodes) were in stock for immediate delivery. Another member, user name YYZ, who is involved with the LED segment of the industry, responded to that post with what SVP considers to be derogatory, defamatory and slanderous comments about our products and company.

Our position is, this was a deliberate and unprovoked attack on SVP and our products for no other reason than to put our products and company in a bad light in the eyes of the sign industry.

While monitoring the forum to see what the site administrator may or may not do about it, I noticed that the administrator had visited the forum several times within a couple of hours after YYZ's comments were posted, but did nothing about them. It was not until I sent him a message demanding something be done that he moved the thread to the sponsors page and removed the objectionable comments. This happened within a few minutes of my message being sent, which indicates that the administrator was on the site and aware of the situation, but had no intention of doing anything about it.

When the administrator did remove the posts he sent me a message implying that it was somehow my fault due to a past confrontation with YYZ and that if it happened to another advertiser they would be treated in a similar manner. In other words, anyone would be allowed to post whatever comments they wanted about an advertiser, regardless whether they were true or not and nothing would be done unless the advertiser demanded that the comments be removed.

My concern is that this will happen to other advertisers at some point, which may be detrimental to their reputation and business. It is for these reasons that SVP will not be renewing our advertising with The Sign Syndicate when it expires. I encourage you to closely examine the benefits of advertising on The Sign Syndicate versus the expense and potential defamation and slander the exposure on such an unregulated site may bring.

Sincerely,

Mark Snyder

SVP Neon Equipment

113 Leventis Drive

Suite A

Columbia, SC 29209

803-783-1165

www.svpneon.com

This sort of fits in to all that I was stating above in the original post. It's ashame Mark did not understand that just because I log in this site as an administrator that I view every post and thread.

But what I think everyone can piece together is that Mark has a tendency to throw his reputation all around the different forums. What has always shocked me, and I always have told him is that for someone who does business on the internet he tends to get confrontational in threads on this board and others with others members and it in my eyes it brings his reputation down.

I am disappointed that he sent this massage to all other sponsors and advertisers making his problems theirs.

When the administrator did remove the posts he sent me a message implying that it was somehow my fault due to a past confrontation with YYZ and that if it happened to another advertiser they would be treated in a similar manner. In other words, anyone would be allowed to post whatever comments they wanted about an advertiser, regardless whether they were true or not and nothing would be done unless the advertiser demanded that the comments be removed.

Mark, this is part your fault! When you take part in confrontational threads, it will bite back at you, I think you have seen this enough in your lifetime.

To say I said anyone can slander someone on this board whether they were true or not I did not say, C'mon Mark. I have all PM's I sent to you saved, you know I did not say that. I said no slandering, I made it clear that just because someone advertises here their products or services can be open for discussion and I will not protect them 100% against non slanderous discussions. That is what separates this board from all others. I don't want to be a moderating Nazi, nor do I want a heavily moderated board where every post can be edited and deleted.

Don't make your problems others, and give me a break, this whole situation on your thread about Electrodes, happened over the weekend. I don't know about you but I have a family life, maybe I would have caught YYZ's comments faster on a weekday.

I will always have the highest respect for you Mark, for what you have done in the industry, but I lost a lot of that today.

YYZ · November 13, 2007

First off - I'd like to apologize for my part in this. I should know better than to bother using logic or nuance of any sort to explain anything, since it is so easily misunderstood online and often goes completely over some heads.

That said - I fully and completely deny saying anything "derogatory, defamatory and slanderous" about SVP or their products. How could what I posted in response to the product announcement possibly be viewed as such, when I asked a question about the warranty and when Mark avoided answering directly - I provided a link to very the information on SVP's own website. If their own information is derogatory or slanderous, that's not my problem.

I made the post to point out that it was a little disingenuous on the the part of Mark SVP to question the length of other companies warranties when they in fact exceed his own. Mark has made every attempt over the years to portray rival products and technologies "in a bad light in the eyes of the sign industry", so it is contemptible that he then turn around and accuse others of doing the very same thing he has been doing for quite some time with relative impunity - then further attempt to damage the advertising relationships that this forum has developed with other sponsors.

I'm disappointed to read that Mark has pulled his support of this forum. I had thought for some time about becoming a sponsor also, but I felt that it would only put the webmaster in an awkward situation - since he may at some point be forced to take sides, or be accused of favoritism by other advertisers who opposed my opinions and/or products. It looks like I was worried for no reason, since it ended up going down that path anyways. Is Mark saying that had YYZ Systems been a paying sponsor, he would have withheld any negative comments about LED technology or our products specifically? Does being a sponsor somehow make you immune from -fair- criticism, even though you are the one who offers the harshest criticism leveled at others? I would never expect such favoritism as an advertiser.

Allow me to apologize to anyone who may have had their forum viewing experience negatively impacted by the disagreements between myself and Mark SVP. I have never attempted to disparage other companies, products or technologies in an effort to damage their reputation or credibility. I made the mistake of questioning a specific person's credibility - but it should not be mistaken as an attack on an industry, technology or company.

Erik - you provide a public service here, at no cost to users, and I am sorry for responding to personal attack publicly, which only serve to lower the quality of this forum. Again, to you and other site users, I am sorry.