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Erik Sine

The Great White Hope (Pre Project Thread)

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Because with the neon crowd, I have never watched a more self collapsible group, you would almost think they were double jointed.

Wow, that's a strange description of us. I can assure that I'm NOT double jointed.

But, back to Eurocom. Does that mean that they stepped up and volunteered their product----or you volunteered their product. And if they volunteered, are they having one of their "recognized" Eurocom plants do the tubes? Can't imagine them letting a non eurocom shop product something with their name on it.

But-----------sure can't wait to see the results. Should be verrrrrry interesting.

gn

Edited by Gary Nutting

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Updated now to a 8' long cabinet adding Eurocom's "Cold Cathode" and LED Line making a total of 12 slots

Damn I see what happened, my original post of adding Eurocom didn't go through so when I did it a second time I didn't have the same statement. My fault, Eurocom contacted me and let me know they'd like to be included. My bad, brainfart! :hitbyrock:

Because with the neon crowd, I have never watched a more self collapsible group, you would almost think they were double jointed.

Wow, that's a strange description of us. I can assure that I'm NOT double jointed.

But, back to Eurocom. Does that mean that they stepped up and volunteered their product----or you volunteered their product. And if they volunteered, are they having one of their "recognized" Eurocom plants do the tubes? Can't imagine them letting a non eurocom shop product something with their name on it.

But-----------sure can't wait to see the results. Should be verrrrrry interesting.

gn

Would Kgirl tell me different about you being double jointed? C'mon Gary how dare you include yourself as a collapsible.

Now back to Eurocom, I'm guessing it would come from them directly after I give them the details of how Elite & EGL are doing their pattern, which should double a double stroke grid 4" on center. But I need to verify that first


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Damn I see what happened, my original post of adding Eurocom didn't go through so when I did it a second time I didn't have the same statement. My fault, Eurocom contacted me and let me know they'd like to be included. My bad, brainfart! :hitbyrock:

Would Kgirl tell me different about you being double jointed? C'mon Gary how dare you include yourself as a collapsible.

Now back to Eurocom, I'm guessing it would come from them directly after I give them the details of how Elite & EGL are doing their pattern, which should double a double stroke grid 4" on center. But I need to verify that first

And for shits and giggles---have the neon people tell you what kind of trodes, what kind/type of gas mixture is being used, and what pressure is being used.

And Kgirl definitely wouldn't say that I'm collapsible---------------------

gn

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And for shits and giggles---have the neon people tell you what kind of trodes, what kind/type of gas mixture is being used, and what pressure is being used.

And Kgirl definitely wouldn't say that I'm collapsible---------------------

gn

Now I am coming in on this late so I probably have no part of this but I cant resist. Maybe KGirl couldnt say that you are collapsible because perhaps you are not considered erectible!


TEastin

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Now I am coming in on this late so I probably have no part of this but I cant resist. Maybe KGirl couldnt say that you are collapsible because perhaps you are not considered erectible!

Now, that was funny --------------

gn

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:lol_hitting:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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We are done at 3'x8'x5" Deep cabinet.

All 12 slots are accounted for, waiting to hear back from two vendors.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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So the remaining question is... when??

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So the remaining question is... when??

I have learned that asking that question gets me nothing...hahaha. Patience brings.

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And for shits and giggles---have the neon people tell you what kind of trodes, what kind/type of gas mixture is being used, and what pressure is being used.

I agree with this, as this is one area where there can be some sleight of hand. Even asking this and getting an answer may not be 100% verifiable (sorry to be a skeptic, but there is only one way for an LED company to manipulate the performance of their product, while there are multiple ways with neon. gas, pressure, phosphor blend, etc...).

I think for the neon product, Erik should be able to call (place company and city here) and specify the tube to be used and have it delivered as an every day "off the shelf" order and not something that is being specially made for this comparison, as none of the LED suppliers has the ability to "make a special batch". A simple meter will tell Erik exactly how much current is passing through the circuit and clarify whether the LED is being over-driven, which I don't expect to be the case. Most people are now under-driving, but the measurement will bear this out. * There is no other way for an LED company to manipulate the performance * and for this test to have any credibility, it has to be representative of every day product.

Edited by YYZ

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I agree with this, as this is one area where there can be some sleight of hand. Even asking this and getting an answer may not be 100% verifiable (sorry to be a skeptic, but there is only one way for an LED company to manipulate the performance of their product, while there are multiple ways with neon. gas, pressure, phosphor blend, etc...).

I think for the neon product, Erik should be able to call (place company and city here) and specify the tube to be used and have it delivered as an every day "off the shelf" order and not something that is being specially made for this comparison, as none of the LED suppliers has the ability to "make a special batch". A simple meter will tell Erik exactly how much current is passing through the circuit and clarify whether the LED is being over-driven, which I don't expect to be the case. Most people are now under-driving, but the measurement will bear this out. * There is no other way for an LED company to manipulate the performance * and for this test to have any credibility, it has to be representative of every day product.

I don't really know what good it will do to over gas a unit adding to much pressure (Neon) especially for over time. Remember the standard off the shelf will be 6500 snow white 15mm, all other lamps will be specialty Tri glass (EGL, Elite, Eurocom) and all will be on Ventex Tranny's

BTW- The cabinet will probably be here at the end of next week. I encourage everyone to send me their light sources with power supplies, for neon there is no need to send power supplies


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I have EGL's. YYZ (In Transit), Eurocom/Phillips(In Transit), Agilight (In Transit)

Waiting on Axiom, Elite Lamp. Lumificient.

Got no reply back from SloanLED or Permlight after contacting a few of their reps. I'm really surprised at SloanLED since their one of the biggest marketing advertisers and not a peep from Permlight even though they have so many members here.

Still waiting to hear back from a few.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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YYZ's are in. Eurocom/Phillips are in. Manuel yours in transit? Spoke with another GE rep who joined recently, supposed to hear back on them.

I'm going to take it SloanLED is a no show & Lumificient wants no part after he said he would gladly volunteer (he on vacation?). We can go with USLED instead I guess


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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YYZ's are in. Eurocom/Phillips are in. Manuel yours in transit? Spoke with another GE rep who joined recently, supposed to hear back on them.

I'm going to take it SloanLED is a no show & Lumificient wants no part after he said he would gladly volunteer. We can go with USLED instead I guess

My mistake - how many modules do you need for your eval?

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My mistake - how many modules do you need for your eval?

Enough for a double stroke (8"W x 3' L x 5" deep) layout, how many per line is your specification. Sloan says to use 1.5 modules per foot for their great white 2 modules, others are 3-4 per foot.

I'm doing the layouts as the manufacturer's specifies, that way I don't get blamed :P

Neon is 4" & 32" on centers (Grid)


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Enough for a double stroke (8"W x 3' L x 5" deep) layout, how many per line is your specification. Sloan says to use 1.5 modules per foot for their great white 2 modules, others are 3-4 per foot.

I'm doing the layouts as the manufacturer's specifies, that way I don't get blamed :P

Neon is 4" & 32" on centers (Grid)

We will send the following:

12 pcs of AXLE3WG65-1 (spaced 2 per foot, double stroke) at 0.7W each or 8.4Watts or $3.25 ea for a total of $39.00

9 pcs of AXLE3WG65-2 (use zig zag spacing) at 1.5W each or 13.5 Watts or $4.50 ea for a total of $40.50

6 pcs of AXLE3WG65-3 (single line down the center of 8" wide stroke, 2 per foot) at 2.2W ea or 13.2Watts or $6.00 ea for a total of $36.00

We will send 1pc of our 60Watt 90-277VAC input 15VDC power supplies ($35.00) - you could run all three sets off the one supply.

Is that ok?

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We will send the following:

12 pcs of AXLE3WG65-1 (spaced 2 per foot, double stroke) at 0.7W each or 8.4Watts or $3.25 ea for a total of $39.00

9 pcs of AXLE3WG65-2 (use zig zag spacing) at 1.5W each or 13.5 Watts or $4.50 ea for a total of $40.50

6 pcs of AXLE3WG65-3 (single line down the center of 8" wide stroke, 2 per foot) at 2.2W ea or 13.2Watts or $6.00 ea for a total of $36.00

We will send 1pc of our 60Watt 90-277VAC input 15VDC power supplies ($35.00) - you could run all three sets off the one supply.

Is that ok?

I don't have room for all three, just send me your brightest with a power source you want to compare to others. But I think you will need more than single stroke for your axel3 (but that's your call)

Sloan GW2 will have double stroke in a slot.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I don't have room for all three, just send me your brightest with a power source you want to compare to others. But I think you will need more than single stroke for your axel3 (but that's your call)

Sloan GW2 will have double stroke in a slot.

Will send 12 pcs of the AXLE3WG-2 if it is comparing to the Great White...ours may be a bit less expensive...and brighter...maybe :P

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2 modules per foot is the usual guideline - it's what we provided (based on 2 strokes). Our modules are brighter than Sloan's GW2 so I have no idea how they recommend 1.5 modules per foot. If anything it should be 2.5 modules per foot - but that would kill the sign shops cost-wise.

Your mid-level WG-2 will still outperform the usual suspects and it will be brighter and more even than a single stroke of the WG-3. There would actually be room in the can for Erik to mount a single row of those in between the WG-2's, but they won't be lit at all times like the other products in the test. You could just use it as an alternate measurement to know how it stacks up against your own product in a different arrangement. That was my thought in possibly provided our 3.0W modules, but decided it doesn't make sense since it isn't what most shops would opt for and we'll probably eliminate it altogether since we're working on something larger for really big letters and sign boxes.

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2 modules per foot is the usual guideline - it's what we provided (based on 2 strokes). Our modules are brighter than Sloan's GW2 so I have no idea how they recommend 1.5 modules per foot. If anything it should be 2.5 modules per foot - but that would kill the sign shops cost-wise.

Your mid-level WG-2 will still outperform the usual suspects and it will be brighter and more even than a single stroke of the WG-3. There would actually be room in the can for Erik to mount a single row of those in between the WG-2's, but they won't be lit at all times like the other products in the test. You could just use it as an alternate measurement to know how it stacks up against your own product in a different arrangement. That was my thought in possibly provided our 3.0W modules, but decided it doesn't make sense since it isn't what most shops would opt for and we'll probably eliminate it altogether since we're working on something larger for really big letters and sign boxes.

totally agreed. I am going to send you the sketch of the fixture we wanted to work with you on for the AXLE3Wg65-3 series modules...need your expertise on this.

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To date I have the following vendor's in

EGL (15mm 6500 & 13mm Designer CCFL lamps)

YYZ (LED)

Phillips (LED)

Axiom (LED)

AgiLight (LED)

Later this week I will have

Elite Lamp Tech (13mm Tri White CCFL Lamp)

Still waiting word on a few vendors. I should have this cabinet finished by next week. At that point if no other vendors have sent me their products for the slots I will get them from a local distributor to fill the remaining spots.

I have room for 2-3 slots right now.

GE, SloanLED, Lumificient, USLED, Permlight??? Still in?


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I have 2 slots left for any vendor wanting to submit their products before I go out and choose the final slots. CCFL Lamps are filled, just looking for more LED vendors

Line Up

Phillips LED

AgiLight LED

YYZ LED

Axiom LED

EGL CCFL Lamps

Elite CCFL Lamp

SloanLED


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I have 2 slots left for any vendor wanting to submit their products before I go out and choose the final slots. CCFL Lamps are filled, just looking for more LED vendors

Line Up

Phillips LED

AgiLight LED

YYZ LED

Axiom LED

EGL CCFL Lamps

Elite CCFL Lamp

SloanLED

Are you allowed to state which product from each vendor is being used?

gn

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All that and MSRP info will all be included in the GWH Tutorial when it's finalized and plugged in.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I strongly recommend the use of USLED and Gelcore for the remaining 2 slots - they are the most widely used outside your current list (as well as Permlight, but they don't seem to care about being in this market segment any more, so why use 'em). If Zdenko comes back to life, then replace one of GE or USLED with the Lumificient - though I'd rather see the bigger 2.

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