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Erik Sine

A quick Small LED Channel Letter Poll

Small LED Letter Return Size  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. What size do you mostly use and find best for even light distribution?

    • 3" Returns
      2
    • 4" Returns
      6
    • 5" Returns
      20


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This is a quick survey for our newest GWH project on small channel letters, a dedicated project for a LED mini's comparison, 1/2 watt mods and below. I'm going to have a narrow stroke of 1" to 1-3/8". Traditionally I have used a 5" returns for these but have heard of use in shallower returns but my fear is hot spots and having to space the mods closer.

I will be using different acrylic panels such as 7328, 2447, and other special panels dedicated for LED lighting.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Usually we will push for 5¼" returns since our stock coil is that depth. Ive done them thinner (3") with mini whites and used Milky White SG acrylic for better diffusion. If that still doesn't kill the spots some 60 diffuser will sort ya out. I know we've also done perimeter installs having the ledds pointed inward over straight up.

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Wouldn't a valuable part of this comparison be to see "how shallow you can go?", or conversely "if you do go small/shallow - how close do the mods have to go?"

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We have mostly done 5" returns for ours....smaller returns and they have shown hot spots with the need to add more LEDs

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Channelume/Let-R-Edge® is produced in 3", 5" and 8" and we have customers all over the world. 5" is our most popular return and for the most part it works great with LEDs. Please consider that when I'm talking about a 5" return the actual distance between the mounting surface of the LED on the back of the letter and the hitting surface of the acrylic face is about 4 1/2". This distance is actually less depending on the size of the LED body.

By special request we had produced a 4" return that push that distance down to about 3 3/4" and had worked OK with conventional LEDs (we did a sign with TFT LEDs).

Now our 3" Let-R-Edge® material leaves an even smaller distance of about 2 1/2" that it is already a stretch, we have tested minis from Sloan, Tetra, Allanson and we haven't found the perfect match! It is doable but you really have to spend a lot of time to get it just right!

post-2326-1237918879.jpg

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Yeah - you really have to test first to be sure about the LED spacing. It really is necessary to bring more modules closer together to make up for the lack of distance to the face.

Those TFT modules in the picture, for example, not only have a taller LED but are mounted in a very cumbersome holder. It's no surprise that you've had problems with many of the mainstream products doing what you need them to do.

===

What is the status of this secondary test anyways - are you ready for materials at this point Erik?

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Yes, and have been receiving them from different manufacturer's. The total length will be 3 feet but asking for more so we can space the mods closer together on the 3" returns.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Yes, and have been receiving them from different manufacturer's. The total length will be 3 feet but asking for more so we can space the mods closer together on the 3" returns.

OK then. I'll send new product for the mini test, as well as replacement product for the first GW test... You can either rip the stuff out now, or wait, but no point taking more readings until the new stuff is in.

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The second GWH Cab will have more vendors, 12 more sections, a bunch of new vendors some and most have probably never heard of before. The Project B will have so many I won't know what to do with them all. Marko, send your mini and mid sized LED's.

One thing I've noticed, and once again as before, the LED manufacturer's who spend the most in advertising are so reluctant to participate in this project.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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In a matter of fact I have a new word for those people, "Project Dodger"

I'll think of a new smilie just for them.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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We have been using Sloan V-series in letters as shallow as 2-3/16" with excellant results. We cut coil down the middle doubling the linear footage and if there are multiples we do the layout the split the material saving on labor as well as material. For seriffs we brush a light enhancing paint, and sometimes cover the backs with either the same paint or a light enhaning film for harder to illuminate plex colors.

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Wouldn't a valuable part of this comparison be to see "how shallow you can go?", or conversely "if you do go small/shallow - how close do the mods have to go?"

There are a few people on this board that know from experience that while a shallow channel letter might be appealing to a customer - you are going to have a whole set of other problems.

1. Shallow letters get hotter in high temp areas - shorten life of LEDs

2. Shallower letters are less forgiving of LED brightness reduction over time - you could wind up with "spotted" channel letters.

In all the examples we did - several of us on this board - we agreed that 4" is the shallowest you really want to go - and actually sticking with 5" makes the world much easier in terms of long term maintenance etc.

Also - for large sign companies - getting an aluminum coil cut to shallower depths is a pain in the butt unless it is very high volume.

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The second GWH Cab will have more vendors, 12 more sections, a bunch of new vendors some and most have probably never heard of before. The Project B will have so many I won't know what to do with them all. Marko, send your mini and mid sized LED's.

One thing I've noticed, and once again as before, the LED manufacturer's who spend the most in advertising are so reluctant to participate in this project.

Small LEDs are about 1/20th of the business - not our forte - so not avoiding Erik - just not what we do well.

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Channelume/Let-R-Edge® is produced in 3", 5" and 8" and we have customers all over the world. 5" is our most popular return and for the most part it works great with LEDs. Please consider that when I'm talking about a 5" return the actual distance between the mounting surface of the LED on the back of the letter and the hitting surface of the acrylic face is about 4 1/2". This distance is actually less depending on the size of the LED body.

By special request we had produced a 4" return that push that distance down to about 3 3/4" and had worked OK with conventional LEDs (we did a sign with TFT LEDs).

Now our 3" Let-R-Edge® material leaves an even smaller distance of about 2 1/2" that it is already a stretch, we have tested minis from Sloan, Tetra, Allanson and we haven't found the perfect match! It is doable but you really have to spend a lot of time to get it just right!

Several sign companies on this board have used www.lumitext.com - they make letters that are 1/2" deep - very good work....and very inexpensive.

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Small LEDs are about 1/20th of the business - not our forte - so not avoiding Erik - just not what we do well.

Wasn't referring to you as you've been more than happy to take part in whatever venture, but on a side note now, you don't have mid sized or minis for the Project B?


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Wasn't referring to you as you've been more than happy to take part in whatever venture, but on a side note now, you don't have mid sized or minis for the Project B?

Yes we do - our AXLE1WG65 - let me know if this will work for you: http://axiompowercorp.com/osc/product_info...?products_id=54

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What happened to those little ones you had, the 1/2" x 1", don't know the part number but you gave me samples when you first came to this site? Those little suckers were bright, I had those in a sample channel letter and illuminated quite well. No longer making those?


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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