What would you do?

[Erik Sine]

If you knew someone who wanted to break into the sign industry for the first time and wanted to buy into a franchise like Signs Now, Sign A Rama, or Fast Signs. Which would you recommend? Or do you think it would be a better move to invest that money in a individual who could help them along and build a company?

Not sure what the initial investment is in a franchise sign company or percentage you need to pay to keep one. I've always heard Fast Signs has a good program, but a little costlier compared to others.

[Brian]

I don't know about sign franchises but but when I was in the printing industry (20 years) the franchise print shops were VERY expensive and in the last few years you saw a lot of them let the franchise go and became an independent again. I thing the main reason a lot of people did the franchise deal in the printing industry was for the tech support and the buying power on supplies and service and they could buy a "Package" of equipment and they were ready to go. the downside was you were paying a premium for the equipment package and a monthly fee and a percentage of sales. Most felt after the initial start up with the name recognition and pricing support it wasn't worth the high price anymore. A lot of the printing franchises went belly up and there you were with a name and no support.

[Holysemolians]

The first Fastsigns in Austin I believe was in the early 80's went belly up. Then no FS franchises here for 5 yrs or so we did have 2 Signs Now and one or two Sign-a-Ramas. Now we have four FS I think and they are all going how well I don't know. The owner of three of them died a few years back and they were resold was the rumor. But it was significant that I believe FS started in Dallas and couldn't make it here only down the road. They had 23 in Dallas at the same time there were none here apparently.

But the last three Sign-a-Ramas have gone belly up and there is only one in Austin I think on the south side, brand new. I have talked to one of these owners who used me for CNC routering. He kept asking around if anyone wanted to buy his franchise. We asked him about the royalties and he said the advertising "more than paid for the percentage." But the last year he stopped paying the percentage and told one of our suppliers he just couldn't handle it. Then he was trying to sell the franchise after a significant time of not paying royalties. He finally did sell, but the owner moved out of town somewheres else I think. Another SR was just 3 miles north of my previous location and only lasted about 8 mos. He went down hard; I talked to him towards the end when he was referred to me for some digital printing while his printer was being fixed. His story was nightmarish to say the least; salesmen who stole jobs away, having to work a day job while his wife ran the shop in order to pay expenses, etc. He was in a high dollar strip mall and I kept saying to other signowners, this guy has to gross 2000.00 per day just to pay payroll and overhead plus get the required profit and they were looking at me like nowayjose. But it must have been true...one thing he DID say was he got just a few weeks of training and then got put out there to the wolves. There's no way in my mind you can learn enough to survive in this time period unless you get some mighty big accounts mighty fast. I.E. you get real lucky or you are in a good environment which has high demand and not too much competition. One guy I DID talk to said his brother was doing well in a Sign-A-Rama grossing 70,000.00 per month, but it wasn't here in Austin, but rather Chicago. On the rich side of town.

The two Signs Now were interestingly enough given the whole city as territory to two guys. Who so far will not sell at the offered price any of their territory which was I believe 50,000 which was for I don't know how much of the respective pies. So there won't be any more Signs Now in the near future in Austin unless the price goes up or the one guy who retired gives up his share for the offered price. The other guy told me he won't sell.

[MattC1522]

My father an I own a Sign-A-Rama in Greensboro, NC. We bought it from the original owner about 5 years ago. Since the business was already relatively established I can not say how well SAR helps out from the get go. I do know that they were very helpful and continue to be very helpful with whatever we need. Personally I could not see being with any of the other franchisees. SAR is the only franchise with a cap on royalties and does not force a percentage on you for advertising. They do have a very knowledgeable staff but the main benefit of being a part of the franchise is the owners. We have a network of almost 1,000 owners now who have been through just about any experience that can be faced in the sign industry (and that as we know is quite a bit). We are one of the larger stores now, having more than doubled our business since we bought it. I do not personally think we would have been able to do this through any of the franchises as we would not have had as much to put back into the business. Now we have a 17,000 sq ft facility and manufacture our own signs and even though we don't need it as much anymore corporate is always asking what they can do to help.

If you want to be told exactly how to run your business and don't want a choice as to how you use your advertising dollars the other franchisees are just fine. But if you want more control and the largest number of franchisee support you should definitely stick to Sign-A-Rama.

Sorry if it sounds like I am trying to sell them too much, but they do have a very good program and I would recommend that if you know someone who is interested have them give corporate a call or I would be more than happy to discuss our experiences.

[Holysemolians]

The guy who told me his brother was doing well in Chicago was for a short time a salesman for the guy in the Sign-a-Rama just north of me, the one who lost his whole 100,000.00 plus investment. He said it is just so much harder in Austin to do business... I heard in college that 9 out of 10 businesses as a whole go under in the first 5 yrs so....I'm not saying it is a rip-off, but their sales pitch with all the bells and whistles are not necessarily the reality at least in a competitive environment. The problem with a "vinyl shop" is that they are a dime a dozen. So you can do digital, so after a few years you can confidently broker electric to some degree...so you can do ADA and figure out screenprinting. But all except the vinyl work and possibly basic digital prints takes more time and energy to do well, more than a few weeks of training can accomplish. Not to mention the creative or artsy side of signmaking whereby you are giving the customer a pleasing and effective graphic.

The Sign-a-Rama north of me went down fast and hard. But the other two lasted years before fading away. The only one left in Austin has only been around since around Nov. or so. Unless I am unaware of some other one hiding somewhere in town.

Bit of trivia: the retired Signs Now owner was Bill Bailey who bought the (according to him) very first Signs Now before it was even a franchise. He paid no royalties, I don't think. But somehow wound up with the rights to the whole south side of the city. Haven't heard about him for a few yrs. Hope you are still alive, Bill. Fellow transplanted Alaskan; he had a gas station in Girdwood before moving to Austin.

[burbanksigns]

If you knew someone who wanted to break into the sign industry for the first time and wanted to buy into a franchise like Signs Now, Sign A Rama, or Fast Signs. Which would you recommend? Or do you think it would be a better move to invest that money in a individual who could help them along and build a company?

Not sure what the initial investment is in a franchise sign company or percentage you need to pay to keep one. I've always heard Fast Signs has a good program, but a little costlier compared to others.

personally I would run for your life! and I dont just mean the franchises either!!!!! I mean this is not a easy bsiness adn there are already way to many out there, most of which are falling on thier faces right now due to the oversaturation in the market

[burbanksigns]

The first Fastsigns in Austin I believe was in the early 80's went belly up. Then no FS franchises here for 5 yrs or so we did have 2 Signs Now and one or two Sign-a-Ramas. Now we have four FS I think and they are all going how well I don't know. The owner of three of them died a few years back and they were resold was the rumor. But it was significant that I believe FS started in Dallas and couldn't make it here only down the road. They had 23 in Dallas at the same time there were none here apparently.

But the last three Sign-a-Ramas have gone belly up and there is only one in Austin I think on the south side, brand new. I have talked to one of these owners who used me for CNC routering. He kept asking around if anyone wanted to buy his franchise. We asked him about the royalties and he said the advertising "more than paid for the percentage." But the last year he stopped paying the percentage and told one of our suppliers he just couldn't handle it. Then he was trying to sell the franchise after a significant time of not paying royalties. He finally did sell, but the owner moved out of town somewheres else I think. Another SR was just 3 miles north of my previous location and only lasted about 8 mos. He went down hard; I talked to him towards the end when he was referred to me for some digital printing while his printer was being fixed. His story was nightmarish to say the least; salesmen who stole jobs away, having to work a day job while his wife ran the shop in order to pay expenses, etc. He was in a high dollar strip mall and I kept saying to other signowners, this guy has to gross 2000.00 per day just to pay payroll and overhead plus get the required profit and they were looking at me like nowayjose. But it must have been true...one thing he DID say was he got just a few weeks of training and then got put out there to the wolves. There's no way in my mind you can learn enough to survive in this time period unless you get some mighty big accounts mighty fast. I.E. you get real lucky or you are in a good environment which has high demand and not too much competition. One guy I DID talk to said his brother was doing well in a Sign-A-Rama grossing 70,000.00 per month, but it wasn't here in Austin, but rather Chicago. On the rich side of town.

The two Signs Now were interestingly enough given the whole city as territory to two guys. Who so far will not sell at the offered price any of their territory which was I believe 50,000 which was for I don't know how much of the respective pies. So there won't be any more Signs Now in the near future in Austin unless the price goes up or the one guy who retired gives up his share for the offered price. The other guy told me he won't sell.

I am interested in the SAR guy who grossed 70,000 a month? We are here in CHicago and know all the owners, most of which are either gone or tring to keep above water...sounds like bs to me...but if I can find out which store I will find out for sure, personally we have scene 2 Fast Signs go under localy and at least 4 Sing A Ramas and this is locally her ein Chicago and recent! The other 2 seems smarter (Sign by Design & Signs Now) they have one store per large area and have been the same for along time, however, from what I hear one of them is going under to....

[Holysemolians]

Well, I'm kind of interested too if he was bullsh%$tting me so I'll get his full name. I think he is Jim over at CS2 Cad Specialties a digital print supplier in Austin. Too late right now.

[Holysemolians]

That is, the BROTHER of the guy in Chicago. Even the last name might strike a bell over there.