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Business Slowing down?


Brian

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Just wondering how other parts of the country are doing, and what steps are my fellow sing men (and women) doing to increase sales

Thanks!

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Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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There is still a lot of building here in so cal, I'm noticing a rise in civic projects and a bigger market for those bids than private.

Out here right now with sign companies it's very cut throat, as mentioned in a earlier thread there has been a lot of unlicensed hacks and well as licensed ones selling channel letters up to 18" for example, $160 installed. There seems to have been a recent surge in this activity in my area. CESA or now CSA is holding a meet at the end of this month for all to attend with the CA Lic Board on this very topic, I was thinking of attending out of curiosity. The basic thought is of course report them to the contractors board, but maybe after attending if I make it there I can come back here and be ablt to relay something to the rest of us that can make silencing the activity easier.

There are quite a few companies literally trying to compete for $160 and lower installed and they all have a lot in common with one another, they build junk, perform dangerous & illegal installs.

I hate to feel like I have to, or should even have to play cop. I use to laugh at people who use to do it and quite a few of them are my friends but this is so abundant now I'm just going to start taking pics of people installing and calling in to the city with addresses of non permit installed signs. K, rant over!

Back to the local economics of the industry, a few companies that I know have already started layoffs (Jr's being one of them), and that will continue on the weeks ahead. Right now I consider myself lucky when I get a phone call on a request for a quote. Shopping center tenants are vacating left and right.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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We are located in Southern California, and the past 3 months have had steady work. Now that the New Year has started, things have slowed, but projects are starting up and we've been submitting bids on them. Most large companies have put a hold on all large capital projects and are waiting to see how the economy evolves.

The Bank transitions are going to be where a lot of work will come from this year. I hear there are several large sign manufacturers and PM companies involved, and they have already started allocating work to companies.

The other business possibility for sign contractors is de-branding all the stores that will be closing. Not the preferred type of work, but still pays.

Everyone seems to be concerned about the economy and spending money. The best way to get work is to show your customer the value you or your product brings them and that they will be satisfied when the job is completed.

It all goes back to customer service. Make the customer happy, and they will be willing to pay for your services.

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I worked at one company, one of the largest in the area. It has more than halved its size. It also took a large hit from Imagepoint.

I was laid off by them the week of Thanksgiving.

I now work for the largest company in the area. They hired me and laid off 5 guys the following week. They are now very slow. Last year they employed over 100 people and they are now down to 60 I think...

There is no indication of anything picking up any time soon.

South Florida...

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I worked at one company, one of the largest in the area. It has more than halved its size. It also took a large hit from Imagepoint.

I was laid off by them the week of Thanksgiving.

I now work for the largest company in the area. They hired me and laid off 5 guys the following week. They are now very slow. Last year they employed over 100 people and they are now down to 60 I think...

There is no indication of anything picking up any time soon.

South Florida...

I just got laid off in Fort Myers Florida.........Been in the sign biz for over 30 years and never been without a job! Never collected unemployment! First time for everthing I guess........... Got some good offers in the last 24 hours so hopefully it wont be long till I am back...........Fishing is good though!!!!!!!!!

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In Michigan and especially the Detroit Metro area, there is a decided slowdown as you would expect, especially here although very few states will dodge the bullet when it comes to less work overall. People are bidding on fewer projects, though you still see some municipal and educational projects going forward. As far as small retail, most companies can't compete with the butcher shops and the pricing is almost comical, I've literally seen quotes for channel letters that might net the shop owner $200 or $300 max. and the install is practically break even at best. I think that any Sign shop that wants to continue in this business should re examine is overall marketing strategy and remain open and flexible enough to keep up with their social networking, which is a skill that is often not used when we're (hopefully usually) busy. Definitely strange and weird times for all of us.

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I go to Church more often anyway........

Amen. I have gained ALOT of strength in that area. Maybe that's why God allowed me to buy a business at the worst possible time

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Amen. I have gained ALOT of strength in that area. Maybe that's why God allowed me to buy a business at the worst possible time

sorry but I don't thing God has anything to do with the business climate.

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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Down here in South Texas we have seen quite a bit of slow down since Jan 09.We are starting to see some store closings in our area.We have cut back to 4-day weeks in hope of keeping all employees on this time.If it get any worse we will probably need to lay a few employees off to make ends meet.We have bid quite a few upcoming projects in our area but I think alot of people are holding off on moving foward with them at this time.So we are trying to brace for the worst & hope for the best.We were also burned by Imagepoint for 32k which does not help things.

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Down here in South Texas we have seen quite a bit of slow down since Jan 09.We are starting to see some store closings in our area.We have cut back to 4-day weeks in hope of keeping all employees on this time.If it get any worse we will probably need to lay a few employees off to make ends meet.We have bid quite a few upcoming projects in our area but I think alot of people are holding off on moving foward with them at this time.So we are trying to brace for the worst & hope for the best.We were also burned by Imagepoint for 32k which does not help things.

do you have sales people knocking on doors? we are doing that with some success

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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We are having the salesmen doing more of the door to door local sales & are seeing some positive results.We are by no means in a critical situation so far but we have noticed a little more than usual slowdown since the first of the year & we are getting a plan together if for some reason the economy gets even worse.Better to have a plan of action ahead of time than after its to late.Hopefully things will get back to normal & I know they will but what we dont know is how long it will be.

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Down here in South Texas we have seen quite a bit of slow down since Jan 09.We are starting to see some store closings in our area.We have cut back to 4-day weeks in hope of keeping all employees on this time.If it get any worse we will probably need to lay a few employees off to make ends meet.We have bid quite a few upcoming projects in our area but I think alot of people are holding off on moving foward with them at this time.So we are trying to brace for the worst & hope for the best.We were also burned by Imagepoint for 32k which does not help things.

How does a company get 32k owed to them from IP? Anytime a company owed us that kind of money we would call them and tell them that the signs sitting in our shop that are due to be installed next week WILL NOT be installed till all or a portion of the outstanding debt is paid! Sign hostage works everytime whether it's IP, Fairmont. Action, Icon.......or we quit doing their work..........We told Icon to kiss our ass a few years ago for that reason! Still I feel for you STSG, it is a shame IP put so many in a bad position. My friend in Colorado went to every business that they had completed for IP and threaten leins........she has recovered about 80% so far..Good Luck.

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How does a company get 32k owed to them from IP? Anytime a company owed us that kind of money we would call them and tell them that the signs sitting in our shop that are due to be installed next week WILL NOT be installed till all or a portion of the outstanding debt is paid! Sign hostage works everytime whether it's IP, Fairmont. Action, Icon.......or we quit doing their work..........We told Icon to kiss our ass a few years ago for that reason! Still I feel for you STSG, it is a shame IP put so many in a bad position. My friend in Colorado went to every business that they had completed for IP and threaten leins........she has recovered about 80% so far..Good Luck.

I don't think making the businesses that had already paid for their signs once pay again or face a lien is the morally correct thing to do.. as well as I don't think it would hold up in a court challenge. Just because someone screws you doesn't give you the right to screw someone else. As someone guided by god as you stated earlier it just seems to be a contradiction. But that's just my opinion and we all are entitled to our own.

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Its really a strange thing with these national sign companys like the ones Punkybones mentioned above because with a few of those named we have always been paid in a timely matter & in fact one of them even overnights the check for the completed job 2-3 days after completion.But I have also read on this site & others about how other sign companys dont get paid by these guys.Now as for Imagepoint everyone that has done work for them well knows that the rule of thumb for payment with them for the last 5 years or so has been a minium of 120 days & they have always made that clear.Even back when they were Plastiline it was at least 90 days.So if you wanted to do jobs for them you know what your getting into.I say somewhere today that they are now offering 10-30 cents on the dollar to installers that they owe money to.So anyone that is owed money you will either have to take the offer or fight it out in court with them.Very sad indeed.

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Its really a strange thing with these national sign companys like the ones Punkybones mentioned above because with a few of those named we have always been paid in a timely matter & in fact one of them even overnights the check for the completed job 2-3 days after completion.But I have also read on this site & others about how other sign companys dont get paid by these guys.Now as for Imagepoint everyone that has done work for them well knows that the rule of thumb for payment with them for the last 5 years or so has been a minium of 120 days & they have always made that clear.Even back when they were Plastiline it was at least 90 days.So if you wanted to do jobs for them you know what your getting into.I say somewhere today that they are now offering 10-30 cents on the dollar to installers that they owe money to.So anyone that is owed money you will either have to take the offer or fight it out in court with them.Very sad indeed.

\

I agree, it is easy for others to sit back and say you shouldn't have done the work, but with the slow down for the last year or so it was hard to resist taking the work and waiting the 90 days for payment. I guess some people are so overrun with jobs that they can afford tell customers to piss off so they don't have to take the chance of not being paid. The way I see it with the biz climate today you would have to tell everyone to piss off because anyone you do work for might go belly up tomorrow and you not see it coming...unless you have a crystal ball like some guys must have. But then again maybe I just some poor dumb ass that don't know shit!

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Your right , We have been doing business with some of these companys for over 18 years & sure we have had to call them every now & then to remind them about the money they owed but we have almost always been paid & we would then continue doing the jobs for them even though it would be 120 days for them to pay.It has always seamed to work out in the long run because some (very few) pay in 30 & others in 60-90 days.But then again what do I know Ive only been doing this since the mid 70's.

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Receiving payment for work completed seems to be a current topic, and there appears to be several differing views.

There’s a big difference in agreeing to work for a company that you know ahead of time is going to take 120 days to pay you, and a company who intentionally or deceptively doesn’t pay per the agreed terms of the contract.

I thought 30 to 60 days was standard payment terms.

I don’t know of many companies who agree to wait 4 months to get paid. Others refer to it as lending YOUR money to another company for 4 months. I would bill an additional cost just for waiting that long.

Anyone who owns and operates a company has payables that their company is RESPONSIBLE to pay. One of these payables is PAYROLL that by federal law has to be paid on a regular schedule. We don’t wait to pay our employees once our client pays us. We pay our employees EVER WEEK.

Contracts are a simple process:

Company A agrees to perform work at an agreed rate.

Company B agrees to pay the agreed rate at a specified time once the work is completed.

Once Company A performs their part of the contract, then Company B is obligated to perform their part of the contract and pay for work received.

If both or one party does not perform, then the contract is not completed.

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Receiving payment for work completed seems to be a current topic, and there appears to be several differing views.

There’s a big difference in agreeing to work for a company that you know ahead of time is going to take 120 days to pay you, and a company who intentionally or deceptively doesn’t pay per the agreed terms of the contract.

I thought 30 to 60 days was standard payment terms.

I don’t know of many companies who agree to wait 4 months to get paid. Others refer to it as lending YOUR money to another company for 4 months. I would bill an additional cost just for waiting that long.

Anyone who owns and operates a company has payables that their company is RESPONSIBLE to pay. One of these payables is PAYROLL that by federal law has to be paid on a regular schedule. We don’t wait to pay our employees once our client pays us. We pay our employees EVER WEEK.

Contracts are a simple process:

Company A agrees to perform work at an agreed rate.

Company B agrees to pay the agreed rate at a specified time once the work is completed.

Once Company A performs their part of the contract, then Company B is obligated to perform their part of the contract and pay for work received.

If both or one party does not perform, then the contract is not completed.

that's real nice... I don't think any of use here mentioned not paying our employees so where did that come from? It cracks me up how many people on here always play billy bad ass and say how they would bill extra for this and that and make all the rules themselves and tell everyone to get screwed if they don't like it, and their still covered up with work - BULL SHIT! The biggest, longest, most well written contract in the world is just expensive shit paper if the contracting party goes bankrupt! But if you want to send good money after bad sue away! remember you are NOT a secured creditor ie: you get paid after everyone else if there is any money left. AND THERE WON'T BE ANY

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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