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any estimators out there.......let's talk about our economy and how we manage.......there's a fine line between cutting cost but, not compromising the integrity of your product. but, there are ways....lets kick it around a bit

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any estimators out there.......let's talk about our economy and how we manage.......there's a fine line between cutting cost but, not compromising the integrity of your product. but, there are ways....lets kick it around a bit

We all need to be on the same page because we know what kind of sign companies are out there. One of the ways I try to help our potential customers is by only selling him what he needs and not having to over pay for a sign also by doing a bit of R&D really helps.

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We all need to be on the same page because we know what kind of sign companies are out there. One of the ways I try to help our potential customers is by only selling him what he needs and not having to over pay for a sign also by doing a bit of R&D really helps.

hey henry, i trust you are an estimator...........you have to turn over every stone in R&D........it may prove to be a waste of time but, if you find one thing it is worth it.........

i've always prided myself on knowing the market..but not here lately.......like you say, put your best foot forward and price what is neccessary and hope for the best........i have noticed that companies who really want to work with you have been allowing you to revisit a quote with some perimeters.....

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hey henry, i trust you are an estimator...........you have to turn over every stone in R&D........it may prove to be a waste of time but, if you find one thing it is worth it.........

i've always prided myself on knowing the market..but not here lately.......like you say, put your best foot forward and price what is neccessary and hope for the best........i have noticed that companies who really want to work with you have been allowing you to revisit a quote with some perimeters.....

Just last week Starbucks put out a new rfp we have been doing them for the past 10 years or so , but some of the stuff was a waste of time. Yeah it seems more companies now can trust us and give us a second opportunity to do their signs. Thats good.

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I am open to any discussion. I have been either running estimating and/or reviewing them for national programs for the last 15 years. Just toss out your ideas and I will always give you my thoughts on it.

d

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Talk to your suppliers. I have found that people will reduce prices to keep your business, if you are a good customer. I have one particular supplier that I spend a lot of money with. I told them of the prices I had seen elswhere and told them of the situation out in the sign world with bids being tighter than ever. They came back with some nice pricing.

I talked to my people and asked that we re-double our efforts to maximize our raw goods such as aluminum, plex, vinyl ect...

When we do designs we look closely at how it will be built before we present it to the customer if we feel is that price sensitive our is getting many bids. Sometimes you can save a lot without giving up a lot if the designer knows fabrication.

I keep a closer eye on my scrap.

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The last two signs I built except for the neon was all from scrap. Love that feeling :thumbs:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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have heard that a lot of Estimators are keeping their jobs by "low balling" bids and winning business....at 30-50% under production cost.

Really good Estimator - right???

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any estimators out there.......let's talk about our economy and how we manage.......there's a fine line between cutting cost but, not compromising the integrity of your product. but, there are ways....lets kick it around a bit

Randy, the signman has long been the scape goat of most unsuccessful businesses. Most upstart businesses fail EARLY in there plan with there SBA guru who helps them get the loan. They fail to understand the significance and importance of investing in signage.....the result.....the sign man get's the crumbs.....he is expected to save the whale at the least amount of cost and to do it in two days or less.

My suggestion to all the sign guys is to DON'T cut your prices. I am sure you all have a pretty good understanding of what it costs to operate your business. The price of tea in China has nothing to do with the cost of sign in Georgia.

Sign and advertising planning needs to be a the focal point of all new and old businesses. All of you can obviously tell who believes in advertising and who don't. Signs are CHEAP enough.

Just my opinion.

David Shields

David Shields Neon

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Randy, the signman has long been the scape goat of most unsuccessful businesses. Most upstart businesses fail EARLY in there plan with there SBA guru who helps them get the loan. They fail to understand the significance and importance of investing in signage.....the result.....the sign man get's the crumbs.....he is expected to save the whale at the least amount of cost and to do it in two days or less.

My suggestion to all the sign guys is to DON'T cut your prices. I am sure you all have a pretty good understanding of what it costs to operate your business. The price of tea in China has nothing to do with the cost of sign in Georgia.

Sign and advertising planning needs to be a the focal point of all new and old businesses. All of you can obviously tell who believes in advertising and who don't. Signs are CHEAP enough.

Just my opinion.

David Shields

David Shields Neon

Your opinion as stated, in my opinion, is perfect - well said.

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Talk to your suppliers. I have found that people will reduce prices to keep your business, if you are a good customer. I have one particular supplier that I spend a lot of money with. I told them of the prices I had seen elswhere and told them of the situation out in the sign world with bids being tighter than ever. They came back with some nice pricing.

I talked to my people and asked that we re-double our efforts to maximize our raw goods such as aluminum, plex, vinyl ect...

When we do designs we look closely at how it will be built before we present it to the customer if we feel is that price sensitive our is getting many bids. Sometimes you can save a lot without giving up a lot if the designer knows fabrication.

I keep a closer eye on my scrap.

good points Gerald........our suppliers are going above and beyond the norm, some not at all. my position with those guys and i have told them, those of you who understand and helping all that they can will be the vendors i use long after these times have passed, those who don't, not so much.........one thing that i have been utilizing is going to seconds on my alum sheets. Mainly, it's just water damage but, at half the price. it does take a little more prep time but, the savings can't be ignored. Also, our paint department is not as efficient as i would like so i go to pre-paint as much as i can.......now, lets talk about the art dept.........i redline just about every drawing that comes across my desk..........

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have heard that a lot of Estimators are keeping their jobs by "low balling" bids and winning business....at 30-50% under production cost.

Really good Estimator - right???

i do not believe in getting jobs so low just to keep the doors open.........my owner shares that position......ultimately, i don't control the final say on selling price.......but, what i do control and gaurd it very closely is the cost of a job.......

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have heard that a lot of Estimators are keeping their jobs by "low balling" bids and winning business....at 30-50% under production cost.

Really good Estimator - right???

how smart is that.........the electric bill still comes due ever month and they want their's

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Randy, the signman has long been the scape goat of most unsuccessful businesses. Most upstart businesses fail EARLY in there plan with there SBA guru who helps them get the loan. They fail to understand the significance and importance of investing in signage.....the result.....the sign man get's the crumbs.....he is expected to save the whale at the least amount of cost and to do it in two days or less.

My suggestion to all the sign guys is to DON'T cut your prices. I am sure you all have a pretty good understanding of what it costs to operate your business. The price of tea in China has nothing to do with the cost of sign in Georgia.

Sign and advertising planning needs to be a the focal point of all new and old businesses. All of you can obviously tell who believes in advertising and who don't. Signs are CHEAP enough.

Just my opinion.

David Shields

David Shields Neon

David,

Very well said. As a fellow "estimator," I agree with you 100%!

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We aren't offering discounts, but instead are giving them the option of paying the deposit then splitting the balance into 2 or 3 monthly payments with the first one due at completion. We do this after offering leasing by others.

We bury the interest in the estimate. We may be higher, but the customer likes the idea of making payments rather than all of it at install.

If a payment is missed then interest is tacked on again. You have to be able to go with your gut on who you offer it to though. So far we have been pretty lucky and the payments keep coming in.

The companies that are low balling the jobs can't afford, or won't, offer payment plans.

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We aren't offering discounts, but instead are giving them the option of paying the deposit then splitting the balance into 2 or 3 monthly payments with the first one due at completion. We do this after offering leasing by others.

We bury the interest in the estimate. We may be higher, but the customer likes the idea of making payments rather than all of it at install.

If a payment is missed then interest is tacked on again. You have to be able to go with your gut on who you offer it to though. So far we have been pretty lucky and the payments keep coming in.

The companies that are low balling the jobs can't afford, or won't, offer payment plans.

That sounds like a good plan. Do you ever have any issues collecting the the monthly payments after the project is completed?

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That sounds like a good plan. Do you ever have any issues collecting the the monthly payments after the project is completed?

Not really. You seem to know when talking about pricing to the client if they are legit or not and might stiff you.

I don't offer more than a leasing company if all they talk about is "how cheap can we go?"

Most generally if you convince them of how important their signs are to the business and how you want them to succeed with the right look for their business, it is taken well and they do feel an obligation to you for your commitment to their business interest.

I always tell them that if they go cheap now they will hate themselves later when they start opening their new stores in the near future. It gets them thinking of their original plan of having more than one location, which if they put together a good business plan in the beginning is what they should have planned on.

If you do get stiffed for a payment or two it will probably equal the discount you would have offered in the beginning anyway. At least you covered your costs and made some money. It is worth the risk compared to how many will pay you.

One last thing. Let them know up front that their warranty starts the day of install, but is not in effect until final payment is received. That way you have no more out of pocket until you are paid.

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MY 2 CENT WORTH. WE NEVER TRADE DOLLARS, ITS A PROFIT DEAL. IF YOU DON'T MAKE YOUR MARGIN, YOU WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS IN A FEW MONTHS. AND I DO EXPLAIN TO CUSTOMER THAT MANY ARE TRADING DOLLARS JUST TO STAY IN BUSINESS ONE MORE WEEK. SO ITS LIKELY IF THEY BUY BOTTOM DOLLAR, THEY MIGHT BE ON THEIR OWN. OUT OF BUSINESS MEANS NO WARRANTY - NO FREE REPAIRS IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG LATER. ** AND THERE ARE TONS OF WAYS TO CUST CORNERS THAT ARE NOT VISIBLE TO THE CUSTOMER WHEN HE WRITES THA TFINAL CHECK *** SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE GETTING PRICES LOWER THAN THE COST OF MY GOOD MATERIALS. WE TOO RECYCLE AND REUSE MANY ITEMS THAT DO NOT CAUSE A COMPERMISE IN QUALITY. WHAT WE DO IS GIVE ADDED VALUE. COMMING SOON BANNER, NAME AND HOURS OF EXTERIOR DOORS. AND IF THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS ENOUGH. GIVE THEM ROUTED LETTERS ON RECEPTION ROOM WALL CNCed FROM SCRAP. WE DO ASSES THE VALUE TO THE CUSTOMER. SOME ITEMS ARE FREE *** WITH TERMS AS BID ****** IF THEY BREAK THAT - THE ITEMS COST THEM THEIR FAIR VALUE.

I USUALLY GET 50% UP FRONT, 25% IN 2 WEEKS AS A PROGRESS PAYMENT. HERE IS WHERE THE RUNNER MEETS THE ROAD. IF THEY HAVE TROUBLE PAYING THE 25% 2 WEEKS LATER, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE 50% / BALANCE AFTER YOU STAYED UP ALL NIGHT TO MEET THEIR TARGET INSTALL DATE. DON'T GET ME STARTED! lol TONY ROGERS AAASIGN.com INDIANAPOLIS

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Did You Say......Missed payments?

No Problem, install this to the primary

Introducing MR. Collector

collection.jpg

They will run that check over to you! :fight (11):

Where do we get this product? HAHA! We request 50% down and 50% upon completion. We typically do not have any problems, but occasionally. If we really suspect a cheat, we will ask for 100% up front. If the customer is serious, they will pay. If not, it weeds out the riff raff!

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You like that?

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=1027

In these crappy economic times you'd be surprised how much more clients will buy if you can provide some payments, but why not have something that will/can give them that nudge to make timely payments :thumbs:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Where do we get this product? HAHA! We request 50% down and 50% upon completion. We typically do not have any problems, but occasionally. If we really suspect a cheat, we will ask for 100% up front. If the customer is serious, they will pay. If not, it weeds out the riff raff!

I thought that company never started production of it?

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