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The message board is for general rants, or just shooting the shit. By definition. But is it unbiased? I think not. Because one member in particular has taken an extreme view on one subject and harassed his buddy the moderator to shut down the thread I originated, he succeeded. This proves the

site is a clique and I take offense at this. I have flamed or said bad things about another company who is a supplier and a particular representative. But this is a common occurence on this site and especially by the moderator himself; as we are all in the same business it behooves us to keep in touch about suppliers or other companies who can potentially do us harm. If my thread seems redundant then skip it, but to stop it altogether is not fair in a free and democratic society. Why don't you take a vote and then kill it? Or not. No, Chubby is your BUD and he is killing you with his demands. I know because I've received some pretty nasty emails which make me wonder if this guy is even totally sane. Maybe he would even travel all the way to Austin and do a postal who knows.

Well are you unbiased enought to even post this? High Voltage or Westcoast Sign Guy or whoever you are? I doubt it.

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A good online community is one that polices itself - and if the community doesn't think kicking dead horses is productive - then the threads ought to be locked up once they reach that point.

It's not that there's a bias - it's that more than one person felt that you or your thread were either annoying, disruptive or no longer relevant... probably a little of all 3. Starting new threads to complain won't help matters any... how about you join some of the other discussion and contribute something to the community? You'll have more open ears and potential allies that way.

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I'm sorry you feel I closed the thread because of one person.

This has nothing to do with chubby, and yes he can get on people's nerves sometimes with his outbursts.

That thread/topic is done, I let it play for pages and pages. I've had enough and so have many others, I don't need it revived, anyone doing a search on the web with particular names will be brought right to it.

If you follow this site at all and on a regular basis for any length of time you would know that people have walked away or have been banned because I don't/won't meet their demands.

There is plenty info here in that thread Link for people to read and make up their own minds without the constant revival from time to time, especially when there is nothing new to add. You don't like the company, you feel like you got screwed, they feel you're an impossible customer to satisfy. I get it, we all get it. Everyone comes to their own conclusion, Easy Channel Letter will never be back here to this site nor reply to your thread. I've already had a phone conversation with them and one side conversation had to do with your topic. So, there it is.

George, unbiased pretty much, money, friendships does not sway or dictate in what decisions are made or how this site functions. I sure do not run this site by committee vote either, that's what keeps cliques out. I hate committee's, and I sure won't turn this board into a association, too much corruption and too many people with their own agenda's.

Edited by High Voltage
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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I did not demand eric close that thread I asked him if he would because it was not doing anything but rehashing old material to bash another business and (I THOUGHT) enough is enough. If you'll read the thread he DID NOT close the thread after I ask him to if was after you just kept up the ranting. So blame yourself for the thread being closed! Many times eric has asked me to cool it on a subject and that's fine by me, sometimes I get carried away and need reminded that everyone has a right to their opinion. So don't blame eric or this site because you and I dislike each other.

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Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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A good online community is one that polices itself - and if the community doesn't think kicking dead horses is productive - then the threads ought to be locked up once they reach that point.

It's not that there's a bias - it's that more than one person felt that you or your thread were either annoying, disruptive or no longer relevant... probably a little of all 3. Starting new threads to complain won't help matters any... how about you join some of the other discussion and contribute something to the community? You'll have more open ears and potential allies that way.

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Well, you were my other antithesis. And patronizing to the end. Any half-wit signmaker knows that a product which will not work directly with Flexisign or Signlab, the two most widely used SIGN softwares in the U.S. is not legitimate. THAT SINGLE FACT ALONE PROVES MY POSITION. But no, you had to point out my failings over and over and then state the problem to be mutual misunderstanding.

But I was not fighting with you directly or really caring one way or the other about your opinion. Because of course, you are a supplier and it is "disruptive" to this segment of the online community for people to rant about suppliers in general as a precedent. YOUR BIAS is that you are not in the shoes of the poor smuck who bought the product and then had to live with it. YOU my friend are on the other end of the deal.

I have posted on other discussions and will again if they interest me. I don't need allies or "ears."

If my post dragged out too long, then I apologise. If people really don't like to see this topic anymore in the headlines, then okay.

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I did not demand eric close that thread I asked him if he would because it was not doing anything but rehashing old material to bash another business and (I THOUGHT) enough is enough. If you'll read the thread he DID NOT close the thread after I ask him to if was after you just kept up the ranting. So blame yourself for the thread being closed! Many times eric has asked me to cool it on a subject and that's fine by me, sometimes I get carried away and need reminded that everyone has a right to their opinion. So don't blame eric or this site because you and I dislike each other.
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  • !llumenati

How about at the next show I buy a few pitchers and we all laugh about horror sign stories from all diffrent parts of the country (s).

Were all in the same rat race or we wouldnt be here.

GOOD things happen for a reason......

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I'm sorry you feel I closed the thread because of one person.

This has nothing to do with chubby, and yes he can get on people's nerves sometimes with his outbursts.

That thread/topic is done, I let it play for pages and pages. I've had enough and so have many others, I don't need it revived, anyone doing a search on the web with particular names will be brought right to it.

If you follow this site at all and on a regular basis for any length of time you would know that people have walked away or have been banned because I don't/won't meet their demands.

There is plenty info here in that thread Link for people to read and make up their own minds without the constant revival from time to time, especially when there is nothing new to add. You don't like the company, you feel like you got screwed, they feel you're an impossible customer to satisfy. I get it, we all get it. Everyone comes to their own conclusion, Easy Channel Letter will never be back here to this site nor reply to your thread. I've already had a phone conversation with them and one side conversation had to do with your topic. So, there it is.

George, unbiased pretty much, money, friendships does not sway or dictate in what decisions are made or how this site functions. I sure do not run this site by committee vote either, that's what keeps cliques out. I hate committee's, and I sure won't turn this board into a association, too much corruption and too many people with their own agenda's.

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Well I half believed your spiel for a few moments. You are a smooth talker, like Barak Obama, our president. Sounded good and without pushing the the readers buttons, something me and XYZ could both learn from. Even got me asking myself, was my agenda not including anyone else and only self serving? More importantly was I wrong about you being biased toward the supplier? Or toward your buddy the blabbermouth?

Yes and no, I have always been upfront about my agenda. Revenge against the one who bit me and to help the little guy, the other signmaker who could be in the same position, to warn him. He is a little guy because he doesn't have money to buy the bigger and more automated machines.

Someone whom XYZ would not necessarily bother with, since he doesn't buy product like the mid to big manufacturers. He is the little guy who paid you a members fee who does or does not contribute to thread conversations. He is also the little guy who is viewing what he can without paying the membership fee. I am speaking of being in the clique (conversationers) or outside the clique (lurkers and members who do not converse).

You see, you have very carefully kept a neutral stance on my thread, perfectly natural for a moderator who has paying customers from both sides, the supplier and the signmaker. Actually commendable since vendor membership and advertising fees are more than the vendees fees. Your position was neutral with the one exception when you criticised me for not going to other companies and peers in the industry to ask for advice before I bought the printer. I refrained from direct criticism back even though it struck me that websites such as this one are replacing after hour beers in someone else's shop or phone chat. That reply implied that YOU KNEW I got screwed (and yes, I was STUPID for not reading the fine print or catching on somehow that this rep and company was illigitimate).

Okay, so how does this situation differ from the definition of "unbiased?" Your readers expect for instance an "unbiased" experiment using different manufacturers of LED modules. Neutral in the sense that you are not favoring one supplier over another. But bias TOWARD THE TRUTH regarding the performance of the different products. The TRUTH is that you KNOW I got screwed but never said so just as everyone else in the clique has done with the single exception I believe of Travis. It was darn well obvious despite my lack in organising and writing my position. In order for other sign manufacturers to have faith in you, I humbly suggest that simply reinforcing the TRUTH would have been better. Neutrality does not mean unbiased.

Okay, so you can criticise me back. The truth is everyone who read that thread knew I got screwed royally. If they have any sense at'all.

As far as killing the thread goes, I would have liked for lurkers to be able to see it directly. I understand that member and frequent readers have gotten tired of it. It was your decision and I can't do anything about it anyway.

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This is comical.

George,

I kept neutral because it's not my thread and yes I'm doing what a moderator does. I'm very reluctant to offer my own opinion at times in a lot of threads unless it's my own thread because my job is the moderator.

You obviously want my opinion now because your throwing around assumptions & blame for your own faults. Fine. I think Easy Channel Letter may have some fault "maybe" because their manual speaks to people who have at least have some basic knowledge of computers. You seem to have very little, and very little on what is common place. You spoke about Flexi & Sign Lab as the most common sign programs, I beg to differ. I know more people using AI or Corel, In more electric signs it seems to be Neon Wizard. IMO, I think the biggest problem you have is your own ability with computers and technology. I think Easy Channel Letter probably tried to help you, but you became one of those "impossible"customers that no one can satisfy. I think your personality is starting to show here as well for all to see.

Easy Channel is not a Vendor here, let's clear that up. You have decided to support the board and become a paid member. If I "were" to show favoritism here, who would be the obvious choice. If you look at past threads, which you don't, you would see that I have criticized manufacturer's, associations to trade magazines on a slew of topics. Doesn't look like I'm looking out for my own best interests for playing ball and trying to become one of the good 'ol boys. I sure don't need your ackowledgement or approval for thet either

You can rant all day along about people cliquing up in here and throw blame in another direction other than yourself. I offered you advice and not critisism, but you don't seem to take both very well. Asking around for references on other people who have used equipment before forking out thousands is good advice. I go around from time to time and get paid to teach people how to use a CNC machine, It's very hard to teach someone who doesn't have the basics of a computer #1, have never used a vector drawing program such as AI or corel #2. You seem to fit into this category. This is why I think you have issues.

Now, YOU are going to have even BIGGER issues HERE if you are telling me I am deliberately favoring, or fixing results, in order to show favoritism towards certain products in the comparison. I have had many individuals, sign shops, light source manufacturer's, an Electrical Engineer visit this comparison. You obviously know something they don't, so if you have something to share with everyone that I am doing something to negate honest results, PLEASE enlighten us and point out what they missed.

Obviously, OBVIOUSLY you don't read much on this board George and only come here to bitch about your personal thread, that much everyone can see when following your blame game. If you truly have, you would know there is not much of a clique here. Everyone here including the regualrs can and will be very critical on one another when BULLSHIT is presented and layed out. You need to read more my friend before coming to your riduculous assumptions & conclusions about how this board functions and progresses.

As far as killing the thread goes, I would have liked for lurkers to be able to see it directly

It's still there George and available for all to see and search, I'm just not going to let you bump it up and make it front page news whenever you feel like it. A side note, I still have not read the full thread, I refuse to, but I've read enough.

Lastly, sounds like you're having voters remorse. You definitely can't blame me for him being in office, you didn't do your research before making a choice again.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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This is comical.

George,

I kept neutral because it's not my thread and yes I'm doing what a moderator does. I'm very reluctant to offer my own opinion at times in a lot of threads unless it's my own thread because my job is the moderator.

You obviously want my opinion now because your throwing around assumptions & blame for your own faults. Fine. I think Easy Channel Letter may have some fault "maybe" because their manual speaks to people who have at least have some basic knowledge of computers. You seem to have very little, and very little on what is common place. You spoke about Flexi & Sign Lab as the most common sign programs, I beg to differ. I know more people using AI or Corel, In more electric signs it seems to be Neon Wizard. IMO, I think the biggest problem you have is your own ability with computers and technology. I think Easy Channel Letter probably tried to help you, but you became one of those "impossible"customers that no one can satisfy. I think your personality is starting to show here as well for all to see.

Easy Channel is not a Vendor here, let's clear that up. You have decided to support the board and become a paid member. If I "were" to show favoritism here, who would be the obvious choice. If you look at past threads, which you don't, you would see that I have criticized manufacturer's, associations to trade magazines on a slew of topics. Doesn't look like I'm looking out for my own best interests for playing ball and trying to become one of the good 'ol boys. I sure don't need your ackowledgement or approval for thet either

You can rant all day along about people cliquing up in here and throw blame in another direction other than yourself. I offered you advice and not critisism, but you don't seem to take both very well. Asking around for references on other people who have used equipment before forking out thousands is good advice. I go around from time to time and get paid to teach people how to use a CNC machine, It's very hard to teach someone who doesn't have the basics of a computer #1, have never used a vector drawing program such as AI or corel #2. You seem to fit into this category. This is why I think you have issues.

Now, YOU are going to have even BIGGER issues HERE if you are telling me I am deliberately favoring, or fixing results, in order to show favoritism towards certain products in the comparison. I have had many individuals, sign shops, light source manufacturer's, an Electrical Engineer visit this comparison. You obviously know something they don't, so if you have something to share with everyone that I am doing something to negate honest results, PLEASE enlighten us and point out what they missed.

Obviusly, OBVIOUSLY don't read much on this board George and only come here to bitch about your personal thread, that much everyone can see when following your blame game. If you truly have, you would know there is not much of a clique here. Everyone here including the regualrs can and will be very critical on one another when BULLSHIT is presented and layed out. You need to read more my friend before coming to your riduculous assumptions & conclusions about how this board functions and progresses.

It's still there George and available for all to see and search, I'm just not going to let you bump it up and make it front page news whenever you feel like it. A side note, I still have not read the full thread, I refuse to, but I've read enough.

Lastly, sounds like you're having voters remorse. You definitely can't blame me for him being in office, you didn't do your research before making a choice again.

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1) I didn't vote for O. Just said he is a smooth talker. Seemed to have pushed your buttons right from the start. I didn't vote at all.

2) Never said you are corrupt in any shape or form regarding the experiments. There may be temptations toward data scewing but I have no knowledge of what they are or whether you are honest or dishonest. No information on this subject. No indications or intuitions either.

3) The printer did not work from the box had to be sent back only works with ONE VERSION of Corel which isn't even the most recent one has a loose gear which he DID NOT fix he only fixed it enough to make a video cannot work from reading the manual alone and the rep wouldn't even pay the shipping back since he said I killed the printer which I did not do, does NOT work and probably CANNOT work. Enough said and I as tired of rehashing this over and over as anyone else is of reading it. You did not read the whole thread and claim to have enough information to say I am too stupid to work the machine. I've used a Gerber Saber router since 1996 never had issues and a Roland SC-545EX never had issues. Along with my plotter and Arete's return making system. It is a piece of shit from China and has no money back guarantee which even Harbor Freight will give you.

4) Yo brother, cool down what the hell, I was mad before because you killed my thread; I was only trying to say that I'm not mad anymore about that

and do not think anymore that you were just kowtowing to Grubby's demands.

5) My issue with this site is that I felt criticised by many and agreed with by very few actually only one directly. On an impersonal level it only means that I did not accomplish my agenda. On a personal level it means that I do not appreciate being called stupid by my peers. You will lose customers that way although I doubt this will stop you. I am not entirely computer literate but I can run the machines I need to and their attendant softwares.

The monkey troupe decided long ago that I am not a ranking monkey. Guess that means I'm not invited to have a beer with you all next year at ISA.

If I view this troup as a clique it is because I see alot of teeth baring and precious little support. This monkey stands alone, so be it.

6) My wife says I'm not the smartest egg in the basket and if I was smarter I'd be rich and retired. Amen. Made some nice signs though, recently.

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George,

I think you're a hard person to read and follow. You have a lot of many assumptions about a lot of things too.

One thing I forgot to add about my opinion on your matter in the last post was that, and if it were up to me, IF I was running Easy Channel LLC, I would have just given you you're money back regardless of who was right or wrong, the machine seemed to be in good working order when THEY had it back in their possession. They should have asked you if you wanted your money back at that point in time rather than worrying more than making a buck. Charge you a reduced restocking fee and let you eat the shipping. It should have been end of story. But that's how they handle things, customer satisfaction "seems" to comes last. That is why I suggested "next" time get current customer views or opinions before you shell out.

As another poster suggested in that thread, you could have used a program like Neon Wizard ($1,200) which has the channel letter return measurement feature, then use your own plotter to plot them out. It doesn't help your situation out now on what you already did and its neither here nor there.

5) You would be surprised at who I'd have a sit down and have a beer with. Most of my best friends throughout life are people I got off on the wrong foot with initially, or were enemies with once. So as far as having a beer and sitting down at ISA, there is no "un-invite" aimed at you. All are more than welcome. Some people who have not gotten along or people who seemed to have friction in the past with one another had a good time. 80% of our conversations has little to do with anything Sign Industry related, how can you in Vegas? Too much to see and do, we mostly discuss our personal lives and learn about each other. Chubby, your buddy may seem like or come off as a jerk on this forum sometimes, but in person he's completely different and and fun to hang out with. I think a lot of us are different than portrayed on a board, it's hard to judge people or properly "read" people from posts on a forum. Just about everyone here is a lot different in person than what you read or perceive them to be (except my wife, no one got to see her after drinking).

One big difference we have here, the group of people and members whether they are the regulars or the ones that pop in from time to time is that everyone here is pretty damn passionate about what it is that they do. We all will never agree (thankfully), but I love to hear both sides, all sides of everything from people who are passionate about what it is that they do. I think we learn more that way, that's what continues to keep me open minded.

Anyway, life calls

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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How about at the next show I buy a few pitchers and we all laugh about horror sign stories from all diffrent parts of the country (s).

Were all in the same rat race or we wouldnt be here.

I will bring the keg Sean - stories like you cannot imagine.

I think Erik is one of the most unbiased people I have ever met...only one person...maybe...can sway his decisions....maybe...KGIRL!!!

And Chubby - he challenges, and contrarians help progress...keep it up.

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I will bring the keg Sean - stories like you cannot imagine.

I think Erik is one of the most unbiased people I have ever met...only one person...maybe...can sway his decisions....maybe...KGIRL!!!

And Chubby - he challenges, and contrarians help progress...keep it up.

Thanks! Manuel and I banged heads right off the bat but I feel he is now a true friend and ally. Some of my best friends are people I got right into it with the first time we met. There are those though that I will refuse to be friends with.

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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