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Erik Sine

CCFL (Neon) Guys & Manufacturers

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Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?

I'm hearing and reading a lot going on the LED realm of things, but what are YOU doing? TALK TO ME!

New trannies, higher quality phosphor coated lamps, auto benders, induction heaters (*Cough* Gar *Cough*), CCFL general lighting products....something?!??!

Let me know you're still alive and kicking!

Hell, if anyone out there is still bending at least just reply and tell me "I bend, thank you" and hit reply.

Your silence lately is killing me! Do I need to feel check your pulse? :focus:

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My brothers still have a working plant and are still doing a lot of repair work...not much new going out the door of thier shop though.

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Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?

I'm hearing and reading a lot going on the LED realm of things, but what are YOU doing? TALK TO ME!

New trannies, higher quality phosphor coated lamps, auto benders, induction heaters (*Cough* Gar *Cough*), CCFL general lighting products....something?!??!

Let me know you're still alive and kicking!

Hell, if anyone out there is still bending at least just reply and tell me "I bend, thank you" and hit reply.

Your silence lately is killing me! Do I need to feel check your pulse? :focus:

Hey, Eric

Still alive in Orlando. We are coming down the homestretch on the Chase bank changeover and are gearing up for a large resort expansion project with about 22,000 feet of cold cathode . Except for Chase , we are doing very little neon for channel letters and we rely heavily on repairs and revamps for Disney and Universal. I am relatively new to the SS and was thinking the same as you. I read alot about over hyped LED products but see almost nothing from those who advocate and produce ccfl products , which is still the tried and tested superior. If you are going to manufacture a product, I think its in your best interest to sell it , dont you ? Or you can just lay down and let the LED propoganda train run over you.

Thanks Eric , I appreciate the forum.

Randy

South Atlantic Neon & Cold Cathode Inc.

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It's the fault of the manufacturer's>>>>>mixed in with arrogance. They all sell LED products now too.

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Part of the problem is UL is also pushing Neon out the door. They try and dictate everything we do but we are letting them do it. We need to revolt and say out with UL.

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It's the fault of the manufacturer's>>>>>mixed in with arrogance. They all sell LED products now too.

I know this is not David typing. We do not sell any LED. You must mean the German folks.

I am not a UL fan but they are trying to nip at the bud the unqualified HACKS who install signs.

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Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?

I'm hearing and reading a lot going on the LED realm of things, but what are YOU doing? TALK TO ME!

New trannies, higher quality phosphor coated lamps, auto benders, induction heaters (*Cough* Gar *Cough*), CCFL general lighting products....something?!??!

Let me know you're still alive and kicking!

Hell, if anyone out there is still bending at least just reply and tell me "I bend, thank you" and hit reply.

Your silence lately is killing me! Do I need to feel check your pulse? :focus:

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Here's our little update:

As some of you know I have been working on an automated neon processing system. It will be a true fire-and-forget system, right down to the filling of the tubes. We have a long way to go, but we are nearing completion of the most essential piece: the induction heater.

We have a heater that is designed from the ground up, using the latest in digital programmable processors. The circuitry can auto-detect the resonant frequency of the electrode, and also adjust that once the Curie point is passed and the shell loses it's magnetism. At present the heater puts out about 1100 watts, and can fire an electrode to bright red in 3 seconds--with an open "C" coil!

The final version will be more powerful and efficient, probably 1800 watts. All air-cooled. Looking to be available in Q1 of 2010.

The other project we are developing is an electronic bombarder. Small like a neon power supply, but equivalent to a 5kVa bombarder. Will include all the safety features that 2161 transformers enjoy, most importantly, detection of ground fault. We are hoping to make the horror stories of bombarder electrocutions a thing of the past.

Together with the induction heaters, and PC-based programmable logic controller, we will have a fully automated neon processing system that can plug into a 20A 240V outlet.

Gone will be: electrocutions, burned electrodes, under-heated electrodes, one electrode hot while the other cold, tubes under-filled, and over-filed, or filled too quickly or not quickly enough. In other words, the neon tube will be perfectly processed every time, and one less employee will be needed.

Even you electric bill will be much lower!

Stay tuned. The full version will be available Q1 of 2011.

Garett Churchill

Elite Lamp technologies

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Interesting project ---------- as you're aware, others have tried. Since alot of pumping/bombarding is "visual" - it'll be interesting to see how these variables can be handled by a computer.

But---------------------if anyone can "git 'er dun"............it'll be you.

gn

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See that's what I'm talking about!!! WHAT is new? Neon was once the "Sexy" thing to do, I want to hear more about what manufacturer's are doing to to make that so again.

Here's our little update:

As some of you know I have been working on an automated neon processing system. It will be a true fire-and-forget system, right down to the filling of the tubes. We have a long way to go, but we are nearing completion of the most essential piece: the induction heater.

We have a heater that is designed from the ground up, using the latest in digital programmable processors. The circuitry can auto-detect the resonant frequency of the electrode, and also adjust that once the Curie point is passed and the shell loses it's magnetism. At present the heater puts out about 1100 watts, and can fire an electrode to bright red in 3 seconds--with an open "C" coil!

The final version will be more powerful and efficient, probably 1800 watts. All air-cooled. Looking to be available in Q1 of 2010.

The other project we are developing is an electronic bombarder. Small like a neon power supply, but equivalent to a 5kVa bombarder. Will include all the safety features that 2161 transformers enjoy, most importantly, detection of ground fault. We are hoping to make the horror stories of bombarder electrocutions a thing of the past.

Together with the induction heaters, and PC-based programmable logic controller, we will have a fully automated neon processing system that can plug into a 20A 240V outlet.

Gone will be: electrocutions, burned electrodes, under-heated electrodes, one electrode hot while the other cold, tubes under-filled, and over-filed, or filled too quickly or not quickly enough. In other words, the neon tube will be perfectly processed every time, and one less employee will be needed.

Even you electric bill will be much lower!

Stay tuned. The full version will be available Q1 of 2011.

Garett Churchill

Elite Lamp technologies

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Interesting project ---------- as you're aware, others have tried. Since alot of pumping/bombarding is "visual" - it'll be interesting to see how these variables can be handled by a computer.

But---------------------if anyone can "git 'er dun"............it'll be you.

gn

I agree garett is the guy to do the crazy thing!

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In response to the question, "Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?"..... We are West Coast Custom Designs (www.wccdUSA.com) located in Phoenix Arizona. I know and sell to many of you, but for those who don't know us, we stock and sell neon supplies. In the past year I have heard numerous complaints from customers about their local big chain sign supply houses scaling back or all together eliminating neon supplies. We, on the other hand, have taken the opposite approach. In the past year we have added numerous neon products to our offerings and we still maintain heavy inventory to be able to ship out orders same day in most cases. We love neon, that's why I guesstimate that the supples we offer are 98% neon related. I sense that as of my posting time, shops are seeing a slight increase in orders, hopefully signaling things are starting to get better. Best Regards to all, Steve - WCCD, LLC.

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In response to the question, "Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?"..... We are West Coast Custom Designs (www.wccdUSA.com) located in Phoenix Arizona. I know and sell to many of you, but for those who don't know us, we stock and sell neon supplies. In the past year I have heard numerous complaints from customers about their local big chain sign supply houses scaling back or all together eliminating neon supplies. We, on the other hand, have taken the opposite approach. In the past year we have added numerous neon products to our offerings and we still maintain heavy inventory to be able to ship out orders same day in most cases. We love neon, that's why I guesstimate that the supples we offer are 98% neon related. I sense that as of my posting time, shops are seeing a slight increase in orders, hopefully signaling things are starting to get better. Best Regards to all, Steve - WCCD, LLC.

Welcome Steve---------glad you found us. You probably remember me from Neon Products of Phoenix...............

gn

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Welcome Steve---------glad you found us. You probably remember me from Neon Products of Phoenix...............

gn

Hi Gary, I do remember you. I have been reading The Sign Syndicate for some time and have seen countless postings from you. I recognize many customers and hope things are getting better in the neon world for everyone. For me personally, I just try to think of the positive things and push forward. I wish I could see what neon will look like in 10 years as I know it's not going to end with the determination I know we all have! Steve

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In response to the question, "Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?"..... We are West Coast Custom Designs (www.wccdUSA.com) located in Phoenix Arizona. I know and sell to many of you, but for those who don't know us, we stock and sell neon supplies. In the past year I have heard numerous complaints from customers about their local big chain sign supply houses scaling back or all together eliminating neon supplies. We, on the other hand, have taken the opposite approach. In the past year we have added numerous neon products to our offerings and we still maintain heavy inventory to be able to ship out orders same day in most cases. We love neon, that's why I guesstimate that the supples we offer are 98% neon related. I sense that as of my posting time, shops are seeing a slight increase in orders, hopefully signaling things are starting to get better. Best Regards to all, Steve - WCCD, LLC.

Welcome glad to have another source!!!!!

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Aloha Steve.

I have bought his base stands for years now and can highly recommend WCCD. Excellent selection, quality and good prices. I usually use the base stands for presents and donations to police raffles.

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Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?

I'm hearing and reading a lot going on the LED realm of things, but what are YOU doing? TALK TO ME!

New trannies, higher quality phosphor coated lamps, auto benders, induction heaters (*Cough* Gar *Cough*), CCFL general lighting products....something?!??!

Let me know you're still alive and kicking!

Hell, if anyone out there is still bending at least just reply and tell me "I bend, thank you" and hit reply.

Your silence lately is killing me! Do I need to feel check your pulse? :focus:

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I think most Neon shops are struggling against a PR machine led by the LED manufactures who spend millions of dollars in propaganda with quite a bit of erroneous information to promote a product that in reality has some good limted potential, but isn't the panacea for all lighting applications as they claim. It's a real David and Goliath situation except David is getting his Ass beat like a Gong right now.

And for all that, the only way for your current or future customers to take another look at Neon and Cold Cathode is for you to introduce them to the differences in both products. Now, the typical small shop owner is already overburdened with trying to make a living, let alone setting out to add a new marketing strategy.

But I believe the grassroots approach can work if you access good reputable information online from sources like "The Neon Group" The Neon Group of which we are a founding member. On the site you'll find excellent, easy to understand resourses that you can direct your client base to and at least start some dialog. Is it time consuming? of course, but what's the alternative? And you never know who you'll convince.

Improved power supplies and pumping techniques, along with maintaining good bending practices can greatly reduce failure and easily beat LED's in light output and end user longevity. The neon industry needs to police itself to bring the kind of changes that quell the LED marketing juggernaut.

I think though, that the most important thing to promote when it concerns Neon is the Apples to Oranges aspect of the 2 products. Strong Design, Skilled Bending and use of the huge array of colors available, is Neons strong point. The LED industry has made the battle of Neon vs LED's over power consumption and ease of use while ignoring how different the 2 mediums are design wise.

And there lies the rub, It's only the occasional new Neon sign that has any real style, you go down the street and it's one long line of Block red letters, blue border, black plex etc...etc...Everyone has seen at one time or another, the Cool mural neon for a restaurant or vintage shop of one kind or another and said "that's what I should be doing". For us here, pushing for that kind of creativity to a customer can be frustrating when youre up against a "bottom line" mentality. Each individual in the craft needs to evaluate what he /she can offer designwise and still make the needed markup.

Neon shops need to get angry and promote what is easily the Most Iconic sign type ever, get on Flickr and check out the "Vintage Signs" and other sign related folders, it's a good way to recharge your batteries and get your own ideas worked out.

That's my Scree, I'm sure you won't agree with everything, and I know alot of people are already attempting to and have made great contributions to making sure that the medium doesnt get regulated to "Headshop Sculptures" only. But there is a need for a mass voice to get the word out that Neon is still viable and fresh.

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Aloha Steve.

I have bought his base stands for years now and can highly recommend WCCD. Excellent selection, quality and good prices. I usually use the base stands for presents and donations to police raffles.

Hi Guys,

Nice to see a lot of my customers on here like you. I have enjoyed all these years working with everyone. Makes my job fun.

Steve

West Coast Custom Designs, LLC

www.wccdUSA.com

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We just finished 2 installs for Maurices both neon and they look great. Contrary to popular belief they survived the shipping just fine!

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