Permit Fees

[Erik Sine]

I had a conversation recently and not going to say with who because not sure if I can at this point but anyway it reminded me of something.

The last few permits that I have pulled in small counties have asked the evaluation of the project and charge accordingly to their set formula, one even went so far as to demand a copy of the contract.

Do you think it's proper for a government agency to charge a tax, ERR permit fee based according to the value of a sign, or should it be based on a set structure?

The city of San Diego where I obtain most of my permits has a set charge for th sign type and how many inspection must take place and inspection type.

[Kingpin Creative]

You usually have to get a business license when you pull a permit, and charge sales tax on certain products. Kinda odd that they ask for taxes on the sign. They are viewing the signage as improvements, which is usually taxable... but if you are already charging tax, then the client gets hit twice. Are they really improvements? or required to run a business? I don't get it.

[Brian]

Usually the only time permit fees are value based around here is with remodel and other building permits. That is crazy that they are doing that with signs!

[HansonSigns]

We have a bazillion places we work, and so have a bazillion different permit issues. Oddly enough, only a few change according to the sign value, which is the same (in my mind) as a "luxury tax". The best places to work with have a minimal fee, one for each sign.

The thing that really p's me off is the "personal Property tax" we pay every year. The same set of desks/chairs/computers etc we have in our office is taxed based on it's depreciated value every year. That is just SO wrong!

Edited February 17, 2010 by HansonSigns

[slowdncr]

In this day of diminishing city revenues, it seems that communities are arbitrarily increasing permit fees, such that they can be perceived as a tax, not as the actual cost to administer the permit. High permit fees inflate the contract price, making signs more expensive to our customers merely because we choose to abide by the rules.

But there's one rule that helps those of us doing business in the State of California. Government Code Sections 66014, 66016 require that permit fees may not exceed the value of the service provided. Communities vary in the manner by which they levy fees; there's a flat fee, fees based on the value of the sign (as is the case you cite), or a combination of value and fees. (I remember that L.A. used to tell us what the value of the sign was based on their own appraisals for purposes of coming up with the fees and I wish I could've sold the damn sign for as much as they said it was worth.)

CA State law also provides a mechanism by which fees can be challenged. Gov. Code Section 66023 allows any person to request an audit for the fees charged (the cost for such is bourn by the requestor). Bottom line is that a jurisdiction cannot charge more in permit fees than the costs they incur to process, review and inspect the work covered under the permit.

[Signworksinc]

Toronto, Ontario, Canada has added a whole bunch on new charges, just another money grab. We are suppose to take out permits for graphic re-face jobs and window graphics. If you are a new tenant in a building with an existing sign, you need to renew the sign permit in your name. just a few examples of the bs we get now.

[Brian]

Toronto, Ontario, Canada has added a whole bunch on new charges, just another money grab. We are suppose to take out permits for graphic re-face jobs and window graphics. If you are a new tenant in a building with an existing sign, you need to renew the sign permit in your name. just a few examples of the bs we get now.

Here in our town if we change out faces we have to get a permit also

that is bullshit

[Robert@SoCalSignGuy.com]

Shame when pirate sign installers have the upper hand over those that go through the effort to get a permit. How can anyone compete with pricing that does not have the same cost factor? Suppose you'll be seeing a lot more "illegal" signage going up as the city's continue to let greed get in the way. I know plenty of legit sign companies that circumvent the city all together and simply install/repair/upgrade during hours when city inspectors are not trolling for dollars and never have an issue. Just like most rules, made to keep the honest guy honest...

[Guest Signtiffic]

I've dealt with nearly every municipality from coast to coast and there is one thing common amongst all of them:

Rarely anyone at the municipality know crap about signs...

It's all about revenue.

[Signworksinc]

we are asked the value, but I don't think it changes the price. Oversized will change it, then again we have had many screwed up unreasonable changes lately

[Goatboy]

Up here we get charged by the inspection, but also are required to show the valuation of the project. The muni uses our valuation sheet to add to the property value of the customer for property taxes. I generally do a background check on the address before I draw to pre-flight wht a client can and cannot have. Our allowable signage is based on zoning and with the enormous areas of "grey" areas, its often a debate when pulling a permit with zoning.