RGB Channel Letters?

[mauricio]

If you like the innovation see RGB Channel letters this change colors by RGB Controller, chipper than neon

and save 90% in energy

ElAguilaRGB.wmv

[YYZ]

I don't know about that, man - neon is pretty chipper stuff. Very full of pep... lively even.

[mauricio]

I don't know about that, man - neon is pretty chipper stuff. Very full of pep... lively even.

I see, The Neon have 150 year old,(same technology), use a big quantity of electricity, need GTO wire for insulation, need end cup for electrodes, need expensive lab for do, need expensive transformer, are extreme weight each sign, easy for brake, extreme danger for fire, each piece of Neon are $15 to $30 if you have 1 letter M of 2 feet need need 8 feet glass and 1200 volts and the cost for this is $30 for glass, $8 for support, $12 for GTO, $6 for end cup for electrode $20 for insulation for wire, TOTAL for lighting 1 letter in Neon is $76.00 + or - with LED need 10 L.E.D. Strip the cost is:

Water proof L.E.D. $14 no wire needed, no insulation needed, no extreme weight, never brake, use only 12 Volt, please advice to me the real deal NEON OR L.E.D.

Thanks

Mauricio

www.TheSignCenter.net

[YYZ]

Sorry - guess I shouldn't have made a sarcastic reply to someone whose first language is not english. I'm afraid the joke went completely over your head, Mauricio.

PS - I'm an LED guy and my reply was not claiming that neon was better.

PPS - look up "chipper" in the dictionary.

[mauricio]

I guess you caught me spacing out, my apologies.

[Erik Sine]

I don't know about that, man - neon is pretty chipper stuff. Very full of pep... lively even.

I see, The Neon have 150 year old,(same technology), use a big quantity of electricity, need GTO wire for insulation, need end cup for electrodes, need expensive lab for do, need expensive transformer, are extreme weight each sign, easy for brake, extreme danger for fire, each piece of Neon are $15 to $30 if you have 1 letter M of 2 feet need need 8 feet glass and 1200 volts and the cost for this is $30 for glass, $8 for support, $12 for GTO, $6 for end cup for electrode $20 for insulation for wire, TOTAL for lighting 1 letter in Neon is $76.00 + or - with LED need 10 L.E.D. Strip the cost is:

Water proof L.E.D. $14 no wire needed, no insulation needed, no extreme weight, never brake, use only 12 Volt, please advice to me the real deal NEON OR L.E.D.

Thanks

Mauricio

www.TheSignCenter.net

Wow, those are some crazy costs, electrical figures, and claims made on fire.

I don't have time to go into your costs but for 8' of neon, one tranny will go along way compared to LED's if you want to talk bright whites. Let's just assume 1.5 watt modules x 2 per foot, 16 mods = 27.4 watts per letter, that's about 2 letters per PS (PS = $60 to $80 each).

Neon 8' each per letter = 6.25 letters on 1 15k tranny with room. Tranny = $92.00

20 channel letter sign

LED PS costs = $600.00

Neon Transformers = $276.00

Worst case scenario costs

GTO 250' (Silicone most expensive)= $79.00 (three/four signs worth? $1.92 a letter)

100 electrode caps (Silicone Most expensive) = $60.00 (50 letters, $1.20 letter)

Brass tube supports (Most Expensive) 500 = $87.00 (71 letters, $1.19 letter)

Power costs

1.5 watt modules x 2 x 8 x 20= 480 watts

Neon 8'x 20 = 160' of Hg. 5kv= 81 watts, + 15kv 237 watts x 2 = 555 (Over exaggerated Max loaded transformers)

Annual Costs 10 hours a day

LED = $158.51

Neon = $192.00 (Magnetic Transformer)

Wholesale COST

Neon = $42.00 of 8'= $840.00

LED's

- GE Power White = $216 per letter x 20 = $4,320

-Sloan GW3 = $96.00 per letter x 20 = $1,920

I'm in a rush so If I missed something please let me know, but I think I'm in the ball park.

Fire

This is the ye 'ol LED arguement that the sad LED reps who have never had any experience in the sign business try and throw out. We are talking channel letters here. Can you point out with any pics where a neon channel letter system has burned a building down?

In the small/short 17 years of my electric sign experience I've re-installed new channel letter sets where a fire has happened and they all have one thing in common, no metal conduit. As long as all the consuctors are housed in metal conduit the way their supposed to, I don't care how bad the signs were loaded, you're not going to get a fire.

Now, with any trade, you always get hacks trying to pass off as a tradesman. be it electricians, plumbers, etc, and safety always becomes a top issue where structures can be damaged and people can get hurt.

Same Technology

Same Technology is RIGHT! Doesn't change much, thank god! Neon is and has been a structured light source, it's pretty standardized. LED's don't have that yet, I hope they do. Doing service work I can take just about any manufactured 6500 white glass and do a repair and it will match pretty good, not perfect depending on the hrs of operation but I you can play with it. LED's, well the down fall is there is always a new line and revisions coming out, and there are tons of manufacturers making it. You can't exactly stock a truck with 100 different lines for service.

Expensive Lab

Maybe. But for the costs of doing business you have to make a investment for what it is you want to be able to cover. Can you do a lot of service work with just a pick up truck and a ladder rack? Do you want to expand and buy a service truck with a bucket? Do you want to just fabricate LED signs or neon as well? If you prefer only LED's are you going to loose out on the neon market?

REAL DEAL, NEON OR L.E.D.?

Now comes the important question, what are you doing? What are you trying to accomplish? Where is the sign going? What kind of install, what's the application?

One would have to be a fool to think only Neon, or LED is good/better for everything!

A real sign guy/gal uses the best light source that fits that application.

[mauricio]

I don't know about that, man - neon is pretty chipper stuff. Very full of pep... lively even.

I see, The Neon have 150 year old,(same technology), use a big quantity of electricity, need GTO wire for insulation, need end cup for electrodes, need expensive lab for do, need expensive transformer, are extreme weight each sign, easy for brake, extreme danger for fire, each piece of Neon are $15 to $30 if you have 1 letter M of 2 feet need need 8 feet glass and 1200 volts and the cost for this is $30 for glass, $8 for support, $12 for GTO, $6 for end cup for electrode $20 for insulation for wire, TOTAL for lighting 1 letter in Neon is $76.00 + or - with LED need 10 L.E.D. Strip the cost is:

Water proof L.E.D. $14 no wire needed, no insulation needed, no extreme weight, never brake, use only 12 Volt, please advice to me the real deal NEON OR L.E.D.

Thanks

Mauricio

www.TheSignCenter.net

Wow, those are some crazy costs, electrical figures, and claims made on fire.

I don't have time to go into your costs but for 8' of neon, one tranny will go along way compared to LED's if you want to talk bright whites. Let's just assume 1.5 watt modules x 2 per foot, 16 mods = 27.4 watts per letter, that's about 2 letters per PS (PS = $60 to $80 each).

Neon 8' each per letter = 6.25 letters on 1 15k tranny with room. Tranny = $92.00

20 channel letter sign

LED PS costs = $600.00

Neon Transformers = $276.00

Worst case scenario costs

GTO 250' (Silicone most expensive)= $79.00 (three/four signs worth? $1.92 a letter)

100 electrode caps (Silicone Most expensive) = $60.00 (50 letters, $1.20 letter)

Brass tube supports (Most Expensive) 500 = $87.00 (71 letters, $1.19 letter)

Power costs

1.5 watt modules x 2 x 8 x 20= 480 watts

Neon 8'x 20 = 160' of Hg. 5kv= 81 watts, + 15kv 237 watts x 2 = 555 (Over exaggerated Max loaded transformers)

Annual Costs 10 hours a day

LED = $158.51

Neon = $192.00 (Magnetic Transformer)

Wholesale COST

Neon = $42.00 of 8'= $840.00

LED's

- GE Power White = $216 per letter x 20 = $4,320

-Sloan GW3 = $96.00 per letter x 20 = $1,920

I'm in a rush so If I missed something please let me know, but I think I'm in the ball park.

Fire

This is the ye 'ol LED arguement that the sad LED reps who have never had any experience in the sign business try and throw out. We are talking channel letters here. Can you point out with any pics where a neon channel letter system has burned a building down?

In the small/short 17 years of my electric sign experience I've re-installed new channel letter sets where a fire has happened and they all have one thing in common, no metal conduit. As long as all the consuctors are housed in metal conduit the way their supposed to, I don't care how bad the signs were loaded, you're not going to get a fire.

Now, with any trade, you always get hacks trying to pass off as a tradesman. be it electricians, plumbers, etc, and safety always becomes a top issue where structures can be damaged and people can get hurt.

Same Technology

Same Technology is RIGHT! Doesn't change much, thank god! Neon is and has been a structured light source, it's pretty standardized. LED's don't have that yet, I hope they do. Doing service work I can take just about any manufactured 6500 white glass and do a repair and it will match pretty good, not perfect depending on the hrs of operation but I you can play with it. LED's, well the down fall is there is always a new line and revisions coming out, and there are tons of manufacturers making it. You can't exactly stock a truck with 100 different lines for service.

Expensive Lab

Maybe. But for the costs of doing business you have to make a investment for what it is you want to be able to cover. Can you do a lot of service work with just a pick up truck and a ladder rack? Do you want to expand and buy a service truck with a bucket? Do you want to just fabricate LED signs or neon as well? If you prefer only LED's are you going to loose out on the neon market?

REAL DEAL, NEON OR L.E.D.?

Now comes the important question, what are you doing? What are you trying to accomplish? Where is the sign going? What kind of install, what's the application?

One would have to be a fool to think only Neon, or LED is good/better for everything!

A real sign guy/gal uses the best light source that fits that application.

Hi Man.

I am sure, you need check you mat. and you provider for L.E.D.

I no need star a discussion with you, I now perfect the neon work and component, and you no have any idea about L.E.D.

Any way 20 letters 2" high = 8' neon X 20 = 160' neon = 3 15000v transformer 1 5000v transformer = 1450W X 10 hours 14,5 KW X 30 days 435 KW X 12 month = 5220 KW a year

LED

20 letters 24" X 16 L.E.D. Strip (from my real provider) X 20 = 320 Strips X 0.24 W (Real power usage) = 76.8 W X 10 Hours = 0.76 KW X 30 days = 22.8 KW X 12 month = 273.6 KW a year.

Cost of 360 L.E.D. Strip 3528 SMD 3-LED Modules X $1.35 = $486.00 1 power supply 100 Watt 85-130 VAC 12 Volts DC X 100.00

Total cost for lighting 20 letters $586.00

You say the cost for Neon is:

Neon Transformers = $276.00 X 4 = $1,104.00

Neon = $42.00 of 8' = $ 840.00

Plus insulation

Wire etc.....

App cost for lighting in Neon $1,944.00 Plus insulation, wire etc...

The matt show me the Neon are 300% more expensive.

If you need advice please contact to me, I help you about the L.E.D., I believe you provider of material are no good.

Thanks

[Erik Sine]

LOL

First, you are comparing apples to oranges here.

You want to put your mini modules against MY Tri-Phosphor neon channel letter set? Your sign right next to mine will look likes it's turned off. You want two foot letters, lets compare light sources that will put out equal light output for our examples sake. I'm also using 13mm glass. If I wanted to equalize light output ith what you are using I'd have to use 18mm glass hooked up to a dimmer, I;m not about to waste time figuring that one out.

My friend where are you getting your math numbers and why would you need 3 15kv trannys? All you need are 2 15kv and one 5kv tranny.

I'm maxing out my trannys too.

15kv 3.9 amps, 5kv 1.3 amps

Volts (120) x Amps (3.9) x .52 (NPF) x 10 (operating hours/day) x 365 (days) x $.095 KwH / 1000

120 x 9.1 x .52 x 10 x 365 x .095 / 1000 = $196.89 annaully

We can even put my neon sign on electronic transformers too, if you would like? We can cut that power consumption big time.

$267 per transformer? Where, what kind?

Mauricio, I'd like to invite you to upgrade your membership so you can take a look at the light projects we have going, you will definitely learn from it.

I've been in the business for 17 + years now with some of my signs still up. I've never had to revisit for service work and they are still bright, these are you regular halo-phosphate CCFL's too. Can you GUARANTEE me that your product of choice will last the same?

[mauricio]

LOL

First, you are comparing apples to oranges here.

You want to put your mini modules against MY Tri-Phosphor neon channel letter set? Your sign right next to mine will look likes it's turned off. You want two foot letters, lets compare light sources that will put out equal light output for our examples sake. I'm also using 13mm glass. If I wanted to equalize light output ith what you are using I'd have to use 18mm glass hooked up to a dimmer, I;m not about to waste time figuring that one out.

My friend where are you getting your math numbers and why would you need 3 15kv trannys? All you need are 2 15kv and one 5kv tranny.

I'm maxing out my trannys too.

15kv 3.9 amps, 5kv 1.3 amps

Volts (120) x Amps (3.9) x .52 (NPF) x 10 (operating hours/day) x 365 (days) x $.095 KwH / 1000 (PF correction)

120 x 9.1 x .52 x 10 x 365 x .095 / 1000 = $196.89 annaully

We can even put my neon sign on electronic transformers too, if you would like? We can cut that power consumption big time.

$267 per transformer? Where, what kind?

Mauricio, I'd like to invite you to upgrade your membership so you can take a look at the light projects we have going, you will definitely learn from it.

I've been in the business for 17 + years now with some of my signs still up. I've never had to revisit for service work and they are still bright, these are you regular halo-phosphate CCFL's too. Can you GUARANTEE me that your product of choice will last the same?

I know the NEON work perfect, I never compare apples to oranges.

I am a professional in the lighting system and lighting design (check my web site at http://www.thesigncenter.net or http://www.neonled.net) after see my business and my profile say this, I teach you if you like.

Any way in Florida I sale a lot of products to another s Signs companies and teach the use of L.E.D., and never use Neon again

The regular and normal people believe in the publicity from the big corporations but never know the mater about talk.

Thanks for you time.

Mauricio

[Erik Sine]

I did check out your site, and reading your posts of COURSE you don't know what I'm talking about.

I know the NEON work perfect, I never compare apples to oranges.

Yes you did.

Your making marketing statements and for your website, you come off like a LED Salesmen from the 2003 era that fell into a hyper sleep and your capsule just opened yesterday. Modern day LED salesmen don't even have your same mentality anymore, well the legit ones don't anyhow.

BELIEVE me, there isn't much of anything you can teach me. I appreciate the thought though

btw- you never did answer my questions.

[Erik Sine]

A France Transformer engineer called me after seeing this thread to verify my numbers were pretty accurate afterall

[Guest Signtiffic]

This was an entertaining read.... One of you (you know which one) is off their rocker.

BTW.... I love neon. I love LED's. I'm getting a little iffy on the sign business.

Tax man called me today. Said I owe a fortune. Now I'm getting a horses head in my bed from my favorite uncle. There goes the summer vacation plans.

[chatterbox]

Mauricio,

I do not believe every city, or even the client, will go for this type of FLASHING type of sign. It may very well produce headaches.

Also, it may produce an environment, similar to what draws the "element", in America, that means, signage that flashes tends to, over time, produce a ghetto-like environment.

The definition of a ghetto, is a bad neighborhood.

That is GHETTO.

I understand that this is, maybe, a novel idea. Meaning, a new, exciting idea.

But it is not practical, and has a very limited application.

As a professional sign designer, I would never design something like a flashing light sign on any project.

I would refuse to design it. Also, it would be impossible to render, and it could never be explain, to a client how it would look.

This will go well in LAS VEGAS, RENO-SPARKS NEVADA, and ATLANTIC CITY. Those three cities, you might get sales.

Come up with a good LED or NEON device that shines bright, is cost-effective, easy-to-install, and lasts a long time. I WILL HELP YOU PROMOTE IT.

Mike B.

Chatterbox Designs

Los Angeles, CA

[YYZ]

We produce RGB products as well - even do some storefront signs with it - but I'm very selective about the projects and they way they're implemented. I think it can reach beyond your casino type areas, as we've successfully done signs in many malls and core areas. It shouldn't be flashy-blinky and it shouldn't be for a set of channel letters for some furniture or pluming company or pawn shop.

When I said this on here last year, several people tried to tear a strip off of me for being elitist or prejudice or whatever - but I'm on the same page as Chatterbox as I will steer customers to the appropriate signage and potentially refuse certain types of projects/clients.

It's the responsibility of sign companies, designers and even suppliers to help push the industry upwards, not pull it downwards.

[Brian]

LOL

First, you are comparing apples to oranges here.

You want to put your mini modules against MY Tri-Phosphor neon channel letter set? Your sign right next to mine will look likes it's turned off. You want two foot letters, lets compare light sources that will put out equal light output for our examples sake. I'm also using 13mm glass. If I wanted to equalize light output ith what you are using I'd have to use 18mm glass hooked up to a dimmer, I;m not about to waste time figuring that one out.

My friend where are you getting your math numbers and why would you need 3 15kv trannys? All you need are 2 15kv and one 5kv tranny.

I'm maxing out my trannys too.

15kv 3.9 amps, 5kv 1.3 amps

Volts (120) x Amps (3.9) x .52 (NPF) x 10 (operating hours/day) x 365 (days) x $.095 KwH / 1000 (PF correction)

120 x 9.1 x .52 x 10 x 365 x .095 / 1000 = $196.89 annaully

We can even put my neon sign on electronic transformers too, if you would like? We can cut that power consumption big time.

$267 per transformer? Where, what kind?

Mauricio, I'd like to invite you to upgrade your membership so you can take a look at the light projects we have going, you will definitely learn from it.

I've been in the business for 17 + years now with some of my signs still up. I've never had to revisit for service work and they are still bright, these are you regular halo-phosphate CCFL's too. Can you GUARANTEE me that your product of choice will last the same?

I know the NEON work perfect, I never compare apples to oranges.

I am a professional in the lighting system and lighting design (check my web site at http://www.thesigncenter.net or http://www.neonled.net) after see my business and my profile say this, I teach you if you like.

Any way in Florida I sale a lot of products to another s Signs companies and teach the use of L.E.D., and never use Neon again

The regular and normal people believe in the publicity from the big corporations but never know the mater about talk.

Thanks for you time.

Mauricio

The figures you quote are pure B.S.

You have no idea what you are talking about!!!!

and with your english hell I don't no what your talking about.