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Camalot signs should chime in on this or even John Boyd. They will have better knowledge on this. i thought it was only for the ballasts and not the transformers.


GOOD things happen for a reason......

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Chiming in.

I don't believe a ban on magnetic neon transformers is being pushed. I have yet to see an electronic neon power supply that can have 10 feet of gto wire run through conduit. I do believe that magnetic neon transformers will be around for quite some time.

It's my understanding that magnetic fluorescent ballasts are dropping by the way side. This is where the electronic ballasts are coming into their own being a bit easier to wire and they do use less energy to achieve the same light output. My opinion, they don't last quite as long as a magnetic ballast because of the electronic components life expectancy. That would be somewhere from 5 to 10 years depending on the environment. A magnetic ballast could last closer to 20 years with the weakest part being the ballasting capacitor.

Dave

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Chiming in.

I don't believe a ban on magnetic neon transformers is being pushed. I have yet to see an electronic neon power supply that can have 10 feet of gto wire run through conduit. I do believe that magnetic neon transformers will be around for quite some time.

It's my understanding that magnetic fluorescent ballasts are dropping by the way side. This is where the electronic ballasts are coming into their own being a bit easier to wire and they do use less energy to achieve the same light output. My opinion, they don't last quite as long as a magnetic ballast because of the electronic components life expectancy. That would be somewhere from 5 to 10 years depending on the environment. A magnetic ballast could last closer to 20 years with the weakest part being the ballasting capacitor.

Dave

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the ban applied to both neon and fluorescent ballasts. The same problem is true with reliablity on electronic ballasts for fluorescent lamps. I basically think all electronic transformers ##$##$$.

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Chiming in.

I don't believe a ban on magnetic neon transformers is being pushed. I have yet to see an electronic neon power supply that can have 10 feet of gto wire run through conduit. I do believe that magnetic neon transformers will be around for quite some time.

It's my understanding that magnetic fluorescent ballasts are dropping by the way side. This is where the electronic ballasts are coming into their own being a bit easier to wire and they do use less energy to achieve the same light output. My opinion, they don't last quite as long as a magnetic ballast because of the electronic components life expectancy. That would be somewhere from 5 to 10 years depending on the environment. A magnetic ballast could last closer to 20 years with the weakest part being the ballasting capacitor.

Dave

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the ban applied to both neon and fluorescent ballasts. The same problem is true with reliablity on electronic ballasts for fluorescent lamps. I basically think all electronic transformers ##$##$$.

The main difference between the electronic fluorescent ballast and neon transformers for this case is that the fluorescent ballast is normally contained within the sign cabinet with the wires being run in a raceway. Usually the wire that is already connected to the ballast is all that is needed in the cabinet to wire the lamps. The raceways are also just a touch larger than 1/2" conduit used with neon installations. Neon transformers are usually remote from the neon so the GTO has to be run in conduit which really causes trouble at high frequency. Even if the power supply is in a raceway behind the letters...the GTO, electrode or something still has to pass through a metal wall unless the sign is made entirely of plastic.

Electronic power supplies do have different rules and sometimes I even think they twist the rules of physics.

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Chiming in.

I don't believe a ban on magnetic neon transformers is being pushed. I have yet to see an electronic neon power supply that can have 10 feet of gto wire run through conduit. I do believe that magnetic neon transformers will be around for quite some time.

It's my understanding that magnetic fluorescent ballasts are dropping by the way side. This is where the electronic ballasts are coming into their own being a bit easier to wire and they do use less energy to achieve the same light output. My opinion, they don't last quite as long as a magnetic ballast because of the electronic components life expectancy. That would be somewhere from 5 to 10 years depending on the environment. A magnetic ballast could last closer to 20 years with the weakest part being the ballasting capacitor.

Dave

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the ban applied to both neon and fluorescent ballasts. The same problem is true with reliablity on electronic ballasts for fluorescent lamps. I basically think all electronic transformers ##$##$$.

The main difference between the electronic fluorescent ballast and neon transformers for this case is that the fluorescent ballast is normally contained within the sign cabinet with the wires being run in a raceway. Usually the wire that is already connected to the ballast is all that is needed in the cabinet to wire the lamps. The raceways are also just a touch larger than 1/2" conduit used with neon installations. Neon transformers are usually remote from the neon so the GTO has to be run in conduit which really causes trouble at high frequency. Even if the power supply is in a raceway behind the letters...the GTO, electrode or something still has to pass through a metal wall unless the sign is made entirely of plastic.

Electronic power supplies do have different rules and sometimes I even think they twist the rules of physics.

Whenever we can we use neon transformers with the neon electrode housing potted in. The electronic transformers can be picky in applications for both neon and fluorescent lighting. In the sign industry the electronic transformers are not a mature product, there needs to be a few more iterations in design. Reminds me of the first few years after the low flush toilets were required.

The photograph below is of the clock in our shop - installed about 1950's +- it has the same neon tube same transformer (core and coil) - the neon tube wasn't put on stand-offs - the tube was re-gassed in the 1980's but it's still working 60 years later.

post-2140-127325029129.jpg

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I try to never underestimate the power of government to do stupid things, but this one really has my head spinning. Good lord!

Garett


Sincerely,

Garett Churchill

Fluxeon, Inc.

USA

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I try to never underestimate the power of government to do stupid things, but this one really has my head spinning. Good lord!

Garett

Stephanie was reading this book HOT FLAT AND CROWDED

http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Flat-Crowded-Revolution-CanRenew/dp/B002J85BFA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273511447&sr=1-3

It outlines why the drive for reduction in power - actually pretty scary...but...what is really cool is how the author uses it as way to show that America can use it as a catalyst to revitalize the innovative talent within our country.

I think what you are doing Garrett with CCFL is an iconic example of this - you know my feeling on CCFL and wish the home market would come back to appreciate what you and I were developing.

The main drive for Federal changes has to do with the amount of power being used and planned to be used. Here is a great report I read regularly - shows you what is happening:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/epm_sum.html

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The shop I work for "used" JS leds for a few years on some large projects and are currently retro-ing them out with sloan. They apparently went through an overhaul in their bin choice to higher grade leds and have offered to swap product for the pain in the ass created. We won't use em. I don't make the purchasing choices but I know they were used because of the price point. As shops, big and small get hungrier, I can see more products like JS coming to the surface and being used. Which at the point of all this, I agree it is sad.

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For those Americans on this board - we are all proud to be Americans - if that is the case why dont we respect the US Government office that protects things that legally ties things that you invent to be your technology? Will we selectively decide when we want to be American - if we can get a "cheaper" illegal product?

As for that comment ... get real! You've never shopped at Wal-Mart. They sell products with technology infringements all day every day (PROSCAN tv's). Are hard working americans not american enough cause they have to shop there. Wal-Mart puts small main street buisness out all the time. Have you ever bought coffee at Starbucks, they used to practice un-lawful tactics to put their competitors out of business. The're an AMERICAN business, a successful one most would say.

Just cause I shop at Wal-Mart doesn't mean I don't support small business, heck I am a small business. When they start offering signs at low cost prices I'm gonna be S.O.L. or hopefully retired and living prosperously.

I've bought coffee here and there at a starbucks anytime I feel like shelling out 5 dollars for caffeine water.

This "America / Real American" isn't fair. I don't believe your more or less american than i am cause of where I buy LED's or which I choose to use. I feel bad if someone steals your hard work, if you made a design & someone stole it & is profiting from it. That's not right and no one should do it!

We're all americans trying to get the best deal we can at the best price we can. It's in our nature to be thrifty. Those that don't have to won't ever understand.

That is a weird example.. Proscan is owned by RCA who hold many patents in the US.

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