WTF Seriously????

[Erik Sine]

CLEVELAND, May 26, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- GE Lighting Solutions now offers an even brighter, energy-efficient option to channel letter lighting with its new white Tetra® MAX LED Lighting Systems. Similar to the existing Tetra MAX LED line, the white color LEDs (light-emitting diodes) evenly illuminate medium-size channel letters with minimal installation effort, but now offer 43 percent more lumens per foot and a 43 percent wider viewing angle than the previous generation.

The new white color offers brilliant, uniform light while still improving energy efficiency and power supply loading compared with neon and other LED systems used in channel letters. In line with the rest of the Tetra MAX LEDs, the white product delivers up to 80 percent energy savings over neon, providing substantially lower operating costs.

"With a life of up to 50,000 hours and excellent dependability, the new Tetra LED Lighting Systems feature clean, white light that illuminates brand signage prominently and consistently," says Eric Stevenson, global product manager, signage, GE Lighting Solutions. "Our latest technology shows our commitment to helping lighting designers and end-users get more light, with fewer materials, that offers appealing results visually, financially and environmentally."

Installation of the white Tetra MAX LED systems remains simple because it is comprised of fewer parts than other systems. The patent-pending, 12-volt design of Tetra MAX saves time and labor costs by reducing complex wiring and eliminating binning, dip switches and load balancing. The environmentally responsible system contains no lead, mercury or glass, so handling and disposal are less of a concern. And, it complies with RoHS standards and is UL recognized.

To obtain a high-resolution product photo, visit: http://www.geconsumerproducts.com/pressroom/press_releases/lighting/commercial_lighting/Tetra_Max_2010.htm.

About GE -- Appliances & Lighting GE -- Appliances & Lighting spans the globe as an industry leader in major appliances, lighting, systems and services for commercial, industrial and residential use. Technology innovation and the company's ecomagination(SM) initiative enable GE -- Appliances & Lighting to aggressively bring to market products and solutions that help customers meet pressing environmental challenges. General Electric /quotes/comstock/13*!ge/quotes/nls/ge (GE 15.97, -0.04, -0.25%) , imagination at work, sells products under the Monogram®, Profile™, GE®, Hotpoint®, Reveal® and Energy Smart® consumer brands, and Tetra®, Vio™ and Immersion® commercial brands. For more information, consumers may visit www.ge.com.

SOURCE: GE - Appliances & Lighting

C'mon GE, GET SERIOUS! Playing the neon card still? And with your Tetra's? I thought the industry was well beyond this now.

Those Tetra Max Modules are so dim compared to neon of course you save 80% in energy savings, I almost think 95%. Who in your company writes this garbage??? You might as well stretch beyond apples and lemons and say your LED saves 99.999% more energy over HID Lighting? There!

Oh, don't let me forget, but how bright are they compared to neon???

Right, don't say their brighter, or, just as bright, just say you can save them 80% in energy. The Tetra's are so damn dim, an equal comparison to neon MIGHT be a 30mm tube, if they make such a thing. You would also have to black out half the tube, by it's length.

All that money, all those power point presentations, all those refurbished motivational speakers they stole from door to door vacuum salesmen companies really pay off when they present this garbage to end users directly. It gets sold and bought when they can easily sell distortions and mis-characterizations of other light sources including the very ones they sell. Money and presentation does that I suppose.

Then again, I've never heard of ANYONE going broke counting on the inept intelligence of the American Public. Look where we are today.

[fishing nut]

You forgot all that money the government is GIVING them.

Another bulls**t propaganda Spam.

Kinda funny because they were here trying to push thier Lead free tubing, telling us they are Pro flourescent lighting.

[YYZ]

"up to" buys a lot of leeway.

[Erik Sine]

You forgot all that money the government is GIVING them.

Another bulls**t propaganda Spam.

Kinda funny because they were here trying to push thier Lead free tubing, telling us they are Pro flourescent lighting.

Exactly, Let's dig a tad bit deeper.

Guess who is one of Obama's Economic Recovery Advisors? GE CEO Jeff Immelt

Guess who receives a TON of stimulas money and federal guarantees? The stock value for the company has fallen in half. Mr. Immelt has been pushing hard to receive stimulas money and has been a huge voice to support the Stimulas bill. "to put together swat teams to get stimulus money, and [identify] who to fire if they don't get the money,"

I thought this was an interesting quote about them. "The best way to think of GE is as a finance company masquerading as a manufacturing company. This was essentially the business model of GM as well, except GE is better at it. "

Cap & Trade, is an ideology to reduce carbon emissions by having a "cap" on the amount of emissions that companies are allowed to extend into the atmosphere. Companies will pay big money for emissions allowances as set forth by Congress or the President. We still don't know those details. We the people will be paying more for products if this program is put into place.

What is GE's roll in Cap in Trade?

GE is the biggest manufacturer of so called "clean" energy equipment, windmills, natural gas, nuke power, etc. So if companies have to abide by the Cap & Trade Law, guess who get's to make BILLIONS? Is this why GE is on their absurd marketing BS? Capitalism is great, but who's going to pay for it at the end?

ENVIRONMENT

GE even created a brand new division in 2005 called GE Ecomagination, it's commitment to address challenges such as the need for cleaner, more efficient sources of energy, reduced emissions and abundant sources of clean water. The Ironic part?

The EPA has a listing of what they call "Superfund sites". "These are sites that companies have polluted with dangerous toxins and have been designated by the EPA to clean them up. GE has many sites like this but two of the largest are the Hudson River in NY and the Housatonic River in Massachusetts. GE has been fighting the EPA against having to clean up these two sites for 25 years. Their plant in NY left carcinogenic PCBs in the Hudson River – known to cause cancer in animals and known as carcinogens in humans. Funny, Immelt touts clean water when GE did not want to clean up the very water their plant made a toxic mess of. They finally started cleaning up the Hudson River on May 15, 2009 – yes literally just last week."

GE has another division called "GE AES GHGS" or Green House Gas Services. They can help companies reduce green house gas emissions by purchasing ‘credits’ from GE’s GHGS.

“Greenhouse Gas Services certifies each one of its GHG credits to a rigorous Standard of Practice to ensure the environmental and scientific integrity of each credit. As a result, companies that purchase GHG credits from Greenhouse Gas Services can be certain that what they are doing is truly helping to reduce climate change-causing greenhouse gases.”

Hey more ways to make money off Cap & Trade!!!!

LED's in our tiny electric sign & lighting industry is so small compared to the bigger picture of things. I feel, "tiny"

[manuellynch]

Oh come on - GE and Philips are going to have $30.00 LED light bulbs you are going to be forced to buy in 2 years because incandescent is going to be outlawed.... I think it is so funny.

And dont get me started on GE and politics - what about CREE and politics - much bigger joke. Hell even the California Energy Commission's lab the California Lighting Technology Center (CLTC) is bordering on corrupt. This university will evaluate your products and tell the world how great they are if you give them $20,000!!!! Great state school and great tax funded program - only $20,000

I am packing up cases of incandescent bulbs and will sell them for $2.00 vs $1.00 - great mark up!!! I figure I could resell enough to smart people and get enough side cash to pay CLTC $20,000 for a mention.

Dont get me wrong - saving power is a great goal but it can be done with neon, CCFL, flourescent and....yes, LEDs. But come on - GE charges a ridiculous amount for their products! Their 60 Watt power supply is almost 2X the price of ours - now that just doesnt make sense....oh I forgot, they need the extra cash to fund political campaigns!!!

So I will leak it here - Axiom NZ and AoTuroaLED will be introducing a product that is 2X and 10X brighter and much lower cost... our goal is to make $ and cents make sense!

[saneon]

You forgot all that money the government is GIVING them.

Another bulls**t propaganda Spam.

Kinda funny because they were here trying to push thier Lead free tubing, telling us they are Pro flourescent lighting.

Exactly, Let's dig a tad bit deeper.

Guess who is one of Obama's Economic Recovery Advisors? GE CEO Jeff Immelt

Guess who receives a TON of stimulas money and federal guarantees? The stock value for the company has fallen in half. Mr. Immelt has been pushing hard to receive stimulas money and has been a huge voice to support the Stimulas bill. "to put together swat teams to get stimulus money, and [identify] who to fire if they don't get the money,"

I thought this was an interesting quote about them. "The best way to think of GE is as a finance company masquerading as a manufacturing company. This was essentially the business model of GM as well, except GE is better at it. "

Cap & Trade, is an ideology to reduce carbon emissions by having a "cap" on the amount of emissions that companies are allowed to extend into the atmosphere. Companies will pay big money for emissions allowances as set forth by Congress or the President. We still don't know those details. We the people will be paying more for products if this program is put into place.

What is GE's roll in Cap in Trade?

GE is the biggest manufacturer of so called "clean" energy equipment, windmills, natural gas, nuke power, etc. So if companies have to abide by the Cap & Trade Law, guess who get's to make BILLIONS? Is this why GE is on their absurd marketing BS? Capitalism is great, but who's going to pay for it at the end?

ENVIRONMENT

GE even created a brand new division in 2005 called GE Ecomagination, it's commitment to address challenges such as the need for cleaner, more efficient sources of energy, reduced emissions and abundant sources of clean water. The Ironic part?

The EPA has a listing of what they call "Superfund sites". "These are sites that companies have polluted with dangerous toxins and have been designated by the EPA to clean them up. GE has many sites like this but two of the largest are the Hudson River in NY and the Housatonic River in Massachusetts. GE has been fighting the EPA against having to clean up these two sites for 25 years. Their plant in NY left carcinogenic PCBs in the Hudson River – known to cause cancer in animals and known as carcinogens in humans. Funny, Immelt touts clean water when GE did not want to clean up the very water their plant made a toxic mess of. They finally started cleaning up the Hudson River on May 15, 2009 – yes literally just last week."

GE has another division called "GE AES GHGS" or Green House Gas Services. They can help companies reduce green house gas emissions by purchasing ‘credits’ from GE’s GHGS.

“Greenhouse Gas Services certifies each one of its GHG credits to a rigorous Standard of Practice to ensure the environmental and scientific integrity of each credit. As a result, companies that purchase GHG credits from Greenhouse Gas Services can be certain that what they are doing is truly helping to reduce climate change-causing greenhouse gases.”

Hey more ways to make money off Cap & Trade!!!!

LED's in our tiny electric sign & lighting industry is so small compared to the bigger picture of things. I feel, "tiny"

Capitalism is great but it doesn't work when large companies like GE have the power to manipulate policy.

[PhillipM]

Oh come on - GE and Philips are going to have $30.00 LED light bulbs you are going to be forced to buy in 2 years because incandescent is going to be outlawed.... I think it is so funny.

And dont get me started on GE and politics - what about CREE and politics - much bigger joke. Hell even the California Energy Commission's lab the California Lighting Technology Center (CLTC) is bordering on corrupt. This university will evaluate your products and tell the world how great they are if you give them $20,000!!!! Great state school and great tax funded program - only $20,000

I am packing up cases of incandescent bulbs and will sell them for $2.00 vs $1.00 - great mark up!!! I figure I could resell enough to smart people and get enough side cash to pay CLTC $20,000 for a mention.

Dont get me wrong - saving power is a great goal but it can be done with neon, CCFL, flourescent and....yes, LEDs. But come on - GE charges a ridiculous amount for their products! Their 60 Watt power supply is almost 2X the price of ours - now that just doesnt make sense....oh I forgot, they need the extra cash to fund political campaigns!!!

So I will leak it here - Axiom NZ and AoTuroaLED will be introducing a product that is 2X and 10X brighter and much lower cost... our goal is to make $ and cents make sense!

I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.

We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.

[saneon]

Oh come on - GE and Philips are going to have $30.00 LED light bulbs you are going to be forced to buy in 2 years because incandescent is going to be outlawed.... I think it is so funny.

And dont get me started on GE and politics - what about CREE and politics - much bigger joke. Hell even the California Energy Commission's lab the California Lighting Technology Center (CLTC) is bordering on corrupt. This university will evaluate your products and tell the world how great they are if you give them $20,000!!!! Great state school and great tax funded program - only $20,000

I am packing up cases of incandescent bulbs and will sell them for $2.00 vs $1.00 - great mark up!!! I figure I could resell enough to smart people and get enough side cash to pay CLTC $20,000 for a mention.

Dont get me wrong - saving power is a great goal but it can be done with neon, CCFL, flourescent and....yes, LEDs. But come on - GE charges a ridiculous amount for their products! Their 60 Watt power supply is almost 2X the price of ours - now that just doesnt make sense....oh I forgot, they need the extra cash to fund political campaigns!!!

So I will leak it here - Axiom NZ and AoTuroaLED will be introducing a product that is 2X and 10X brighter and much lower cost... our goal is to make $ and cents make sense!

I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.

We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.

Chase Bank found out the hardway that that spec combination does'nt work too. The next job that you get specifying day/night faces try double stroke EGL designer 7100 white neon lamps . Problem solved :)

[Erik Sine]

I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.

We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.

You should tell your client that they may be real dim BUT, they are $aving 85% in energy $aving$!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UFB Fabrication]

Looking at the picture it looks like the caption should read. "Soon we will have this green business about this far up everyones butts"

[UFB Fabrication]

I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.

We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.

You should tell your client that they may be real dim BUT, they are $aving 85% in energy $aving$!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This gives me a great marketing Idea. I am going to start marketing the most efficient letters ever. They will use our normal reverse channel letters only without lighting of any kind. They can have optional reflective vinyl to increase lighting by at least 50%. Of course I will charge more because they are Green. I hear since Algore is getting divorced Tipper will be getting 1/2 his stuff. He will be needing $$ so he can sell these for me for straight commission. I should be able to retire in 6 months.

[thomaserb]

I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.

We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.

You should tell your client that they may be real dim BUT, they are $aving 85% in energy $aving$!!

This gives me a great marketing Idea. I am going to start marketing the most efficient letters ever. They will use our normal reverse channel letters only without lighting of any kind. They can have optional reflective vinyl to increase lighting by at least 50%. Of course I will charge more because they are Green. I hear since Algore is getting divorced Tipper will be getting 1/2 his stuff. He will be needing $$ so he can sell these for me for straight commission. I should be able to retire in 6 months.

Just ran the figures on a installation, using LEDs vs HO lamps - found aprox 58% energy savings. BUT Neon would be very close to the LED energy use and would last longer. I think most LED's are rated at 50K hours - I find neon can go 100K+

BTW, we have found with B/W acrylic it's best to use lighting that is more on the "Blue" side.

[YYZ]

Just ran the figures on a installation, using LEDs vs HO lamps - found aprox 58% energy savings. BUT Neon would be very close to the LED energy use and would last longer. I think most LED's are rated at 50K hours - I find neon can go 100K+

BTW, we have found with B/W acrylic it's best to use lighting that is more on the "Blue" side.

Some neon can go well past 100K hours - red especially - but it has to be very well made and it's a little trickier with White, considering the effect that temperature change has on it. Entirely possible but with the number of quality benders out there, not exactly a sure thing. I've seen neon that's 30 years old and still going strong, but far more often see stuff that's only a few years old and needing frequent service. The climate in St. Louis is probably a little kinder to neon and trannies than it is in the northeast.

Most White LED systems list 50K hours as the useable lifetime, but that's not when they fail. L70 is a new lighting industry term that project the time when the light will degrade to 70% of it's original output - which they consider to be "usable life" and this is where the 50K hours most often comes from.

It's a bit different with signs, since even neon can drop to below 70% during the first few months if the weather is on the cool side. Cheaper systems will degrade sooner than 50K hours, while other quality systems will have a usable life that's probably closer to 100K hours before it's too dim and needs replacement.

As for using "blueish LED" for better punch... this is for 2 reasons. 1) The human eye is more sensitive to cooler temperatures - might have something to do with evolution of many thousands of years of living by moonlight. 2) Cooler tone LEDs are slightly more efficient, so for the same power you get a touch more light. A 5300K White is actually the nicest, purest White we make (most used for backlighting) and if it's properly assembled the letters would look better with this color light source - but most sign module manufacturers use 6500K as standard and some are even cooler still. Sloan is often in the 8000+ range, for example.

[David-BYS]

I understand the outrage of a lot of people on the neon side, but we sell LED in lieu of white neon at every opportunity. Red neon versus red LED is neither here nor there. But in white, for us, for our long-term customer satisfaction, LED is the way. Once the temps get to about 25 degrees in the winter, neon is really dim. On the nights when it gets to 15 degrees, the signs barely light at all & we start getting the service calls. We try to assure people to give it 2 or 3 nights when the temps come back up & save the cost of a service call, but they never believe us. Then we drive out there, show them the sign *is* working & they don't feel like they should have to pay for a sign that is not broken. Anger & bitterness is both directions. Then we hear the 60ma argument, but than you are punishing the neon 300 days a year for the 65 that it really needs the cold weather benefit.

[Erik Sine]

Totally understand the cold weather factor of neon. But what GE is doing here in their article or brochure claim is comparing a 5watt night light to a 100 watt lamp and making it sound like it's a "wonder" product that it's saving 95%.

Now, would we use a Night light to read a book or light up our front porch? Or at least they are telling us we can and should

[manuellynch]

Dont even get me started.

GE, CREE and others have done a great job on the political front with the Dept of Energy to get them to endorse their products - and I like Erik agree - some of what they recommend is just not "practical". It might be very special and fancy that they finally developed an LED light bulb but give us a break - incadescent has worked fine for well over a hundred years.

My major issues is these ridiculous energy rebate programs that power companies are offering - the rebates are typically only for "politically placed" LED systems that have gotten the proverbial "blessing" from the Dept of Energy. Hell - they are even telling power companies not to offer rebates for LED replacement fluorescent tubes from China ...and while I think the performance of these LED tube products is less than to be desired - if someone is ok with the performance and color and is saving energy - isnt that what an Energy Rebate is about???

Is the government truly going to dictate which manufacturers LED bulbs we can and cannot use??? This is a bit ludicrous.

In New Zealand they are implementing an Energy Trading Scheme or ETS next week - basically it says that everyone is gradually going to have to pay a higher tax for energy so the country can offset its carbon emission. I spoke with the Energy Trading Scheme director in New Zealand and he said simply "I am encouraging people to use less power - how they do it is up to them - their is no rebate for what they do - their rebate is saving money on their power bills by using less."

I thought - wow - simple, straightforward, effective.

I asked - "is the government recommending options to people?" - simply he said "yes, they know what they have to do to reduce power and the recommendations are reduce your power or pay more."...again - wow, simple and effective.

So back to the GE LED night light that will last 50 years....hopefully your children that are using the light move out when they are 18....and I am not sure about most of you - but do you take your light bulbs with you when you move to a new home??? And I think the national average is that people have been moving homes every 7 years.