NEON vs LED article

[chatterbox]

This is Mike from Chatterbox Designs in Los Angeles.

I was researching the web as I do on a number of topics as is customary based on my job as Business Development in the Sign Industry.

I am no expert on NEON or LED. I have been involved with designing signs for about 10 years with both electrical components.

I came across this article on ELRO SIGNS. I wonder if you could read up on it and authenticate the information. As you are the expert, as are other members on the Sign Syndicate.

http://www.elrosigns.com/

Please let me know as, to me, it just sounds like surface information. There is a lot more to this NEON vs. LED thing.

Thanks.

Mike B.

Chatterbox Designs

Los Angeles, CA

[Erik Sine]

This article is a year old but I do know Frank Rhodes has the same opinion about the light sources he describes in his article.

It's very unfortunate that Frank Rhodes of Elro Signs has had very bad experiences with CCFL or neon lamps for channel letters. He's in California just like myself and he describes a 90 warranty (Illegal warranty for CA as a licensed contractor) and in a typical set of neon illuminated channel letters they get a return trip for service once a year. Like a lot of LED marketing statements we see the typical save 60-80% in energy over neon.

What's very sad and hurtful for our trade is the fact that Frank submitted and published this article to the construction trade with incorrect facts and an omission of facts and once again like our own Trade Magazines Neon gets mis-characterized.

The fact is LED's can save 60-80% in energy consumption but what he failed to tell the readers is, what is the light output level? Is it just as bright for the discount in energy? NO! I could install a few night lights in letters as well and have significant savings exceeding 80%. Further to be said, neon on what, Magnetic or Electronic transformer.

If Mr Rhodes is having to return to service his neon illuminated channel letters once a year or once every couple of years then he's not installing his channel letters correctly and probably doesn't have the loads correct, or he has a god awful neon bender who processes them poorly. The fact is, anyone who knows somewhat to a degree of what they are doing knows and has experienced that they won't be returning for years and years. Personally speaking for my business my standard warranty for neon channel letters is 5 years, but that's just me, sometimes I extend that depending on the circumstances. Yes, small freak things happen like small crack or leaks and most case you find this out within the first 30 days. I'll be posting up a job and testimonial soon of a channel letter job that is 15+ years old that of which I have never returned back for any service (like most of my jobs, I hardly ever return). It's hard these days in San Diego to find a customer who is still in business or still has the same sign for that length in time hasn't moved, etc that I can use as an example, but there it is.

Frank also explains the con in Neon when it comes to cold temperatures, he is correct with a half truth. What he failed to mention is the flip side of the coin, he didn't mention the fact that LED's dim in hot temps and this can lead to failure in extreme zones.

I don't know anything more humorous in this article than hearing "Neon cannot compare with LEDs in reliability". Again, Frank's company might need help in his production and installation department. His statements too regarding neon, he seems to contradict himself as he states Neon is not as reliable as LEDs but yet, it can "last decades...with regular maintenance". But a standard warranty for lamps are 90 days? I'm confused

One big HUGE omission on his part when it comes to regular maintenance of LED's is the fact that should a small string or a few modules go out by his pick in LED product, upon his return trip he may just learn that the modules chosen for his sing may not even exist anymore. "Well dear client I have to inform you this particular product is no longer on the market, there has been two or three more generations of this module since.......COMPLETE retrofit!"

I understand the importance of LEDs as another option to light up your signs. I understand the shipping stress aspect of neon. I understand some may have crappy installers that don't give a flying shit when handling neon, or under experienced project planners and journeymen. I've seen the worst installs by big companies and it may be they don't know what the hell they are doing, it maybe lazy workers not doing what THEY are supposed to be doing. I GET all THAT!!!!

In the end, and I've already said it hundreds of times, you use the right or best light source you can for THAT application. End of story! It's not good for our trade and industry to harp on Neon and other light sources by mis-characterizing it with untrue facts, twisted figures and omission of facts all in the name of selling your companies products to others. I'll say it again, "It's not good for OUR Trade & Industry!"

There's plenty of holes and room for debate but I don't have time to list all, I'm SURE others will be chiming in. I just wanted to point out a few.