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It Is Written In The Constitution?


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Freedom of Speech

Freedom of expression is one of the most fundamental rights that individuals enjoy. It is fundamental to the existence of democracy and the respect of human dignity. It is also one of the most dangerous rights, because freedom of expression means the freedom to express one's discontent with the status quo and the desire to change it. As such, it is one of the most threatened rights, with governments - and even human rights groups - all over the world constantly trying to curtail it.

The United States, probably like no other nation, has recognized the importance of freedom of expression to safeguard democracy and grow as a nation. However, this does not mean there are no efforts to try to curtail it. The internet has often been the target of this efforts, as it provides practically everyone with the ability to communicate their ideas to wide audiences and escapes the ability of the state to control it.

My question to (who wants to read it) is:

If it is written in the constitution of the USA that there is freedom of speech.

Why is it that when signage is a form of speech does one have to pay a permit fee in zoning departments of certain towns to have the sign errected.

This i find a comple load of hipocracy and was just wondering if any one could enlighten me on this matter.

Thank you in advance to all the people who do care to read this.

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Ah, the irony of freedom....

You see, without some form of govt. regulation, we would be in an Anarchist state, and not in a democracy. Some see that as a good thing, I don't.

The main reason for permitting is to protect the asthetic look of cities, towns, neighborhoods ect.

One example I can give is this:

Say you live just across the street from Jackie's Fish & Chips. Jackie has decided to put up a 70' tall statue of a fish with neon accents and a 10x20 LED message center. All of this is facing your house. Now we have two problems. If you allow it to happen, it will be infringing on your rights as a property owner. Your property values will decrease as a result, and you will have to stare at this thing every day when you wake up, and deal with the lights when you are trying to sleep. If you stop the guys from putting up their signs, then you are infringing on their rights of free speach.

It is mainly because of extreme cases like this that we feel the need to regulate signage in almost all forms. How are things like this handled in GB? Is it just kind of an anything goes type of atmosphere?

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Thanks for the reply Signquarters and i appreciate it.

In Great Britain we do have a licensing body that requires permits as well.However i found that they are not as strict as i find it here.

I wish to pose a dilemma that i came across a few months back.

The scenario:

A client of mine wanted me to make him a sign.

I did so and submitted the plans to the town to which they approved.

Sign was fabricated, installed and Bob's your uncle, client was happy, i was happy and another job well done.

However.Once the sign was installed the town passed by and noticed that one of the letters exceeded the allowed measurements of what was permitted by zoning.

My client told me this and said he was having problems with zoning.

I said that he should inform them that the sign was permitted and he has a hard copy of the permit to show.

He did so but they still gave him a hard time.

On hearing this i then said to my client that he should ask the town why is it that Mcdonalds, Home depot, Cvs et al all have signage that exceeds the permitted measuremenst and that he was not allowed to have this.

I do realise that some buildings are on a larger scale and that they can have larger signs but Macdonals in my town is not a great massive eyesore that one would expect.

I find this thing kind of different strokes.One rule for one and another rule for others.

It gets back to my freedom of speech thing.

I find that the government in this country is very corrupt and full of hipocracy(all about the dollar).

If it is written that speech is a form of freedom.Why on earth is there a permit charge for signage which is a form of speech.

Ok i understand that there should be by laws to monitor and control the size of signage which i agre with.But come on senators why do you impose stealth tax on signage when it says 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH'

Just my £2 worth.

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Here is the wacky thing about freedom of speech.

1. It was designed to protect political/regligous speech. Note that all speech is not protected, your right to freedom of speech ends when you begin to advocate to harm others, when you use obscene speech as designated by the public, or when you advocate the violent overthrow of the government. (there are other reasons i'm sure but I'm not fully awake so will leave it at this).

2. A sign (if it were political in nature) would be protected and "should" not be governed, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) most signs are not considered speech but are thought of as well for lack of a better term construction and or property.

3. One rule for one group and another for another has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with discrimination. In the case sited above the city has granted leeway to major business's in an attempt to increase cash flow for the town treasury. (Faulty thinking I know, but what can you do) Your clients speech is not being infringed on by the fact that Mc'D's can have a larger sign then he can, however his rights as a property owner are. Yes it's hypocritical, but that is where it then becomes the citizen's job to change his/her representatives to ensure that all are treated fairly and equally.`

hehe, as for the stealth tax, once again we the citizens have let it happen because we do not pay enough attention to what the gvmt. does. Gvmt when left alone will slowly attempt to reduce your rights and increase it's power through taxes, laws, and other means. It is the nature of government to try to become more powerful. It is the duty of the citizen to make sure the government does not become to powerful. It's a constant game played between all governments and the people governed.

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Here is the wacky thing about freedom of speech.

1.  It was designed to protect political/regligous speech.  Note that all speech is not protected, your right to freedom of speech ends when you begin to advocate to harm others, when you use obscene speech as designated by the public, or when you advocate the violent overthrow of the government.  (there are other reasons i'm sure but I'm not fully awake so will leave it at this).

2.  A sign (if it were political in nature) would be protected and "should" not be governed, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) most signs are not considered speech but are thought of as well for lack of a better term construction and or property. 

3.  One rule for one group and another for another has nothing to do  with freedom of speech, it has to do with discrimination.  In the case sited above the city has granted leeway to major business's in an attempt to increase cash flow for the town treasury.  (Faulty thinking I know, but what can you do)  Your clients speech is not being infringed on by the fact that Mc'D's can have a larger sign then he can, however his rights as a property owner are.  Yes it's hypocritical, but that is where it then becomes the citizen's job to change his/her representatives to ensure that all are treated fairly and equally.`

hehe, as for the stealth tax, once again we the citizens have let it happen because we do not pay enough attention to what the gvmt. does.  Gvmt when left alone will slowly attempt to reduce your rights and increase it's power through taxes, laws, and other means.  It is the nature of government to try to become more powerful.  It is the duty of the citizen to make sure the government does not become to powerful.  It's a constant game played between all governments and the people governed.

I agree with you 100% just wanted opinions.

After all we the people do elect governments so we have ourselves to blame yes?

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hehe, as for the stealth tax, once again we the citizens have let it happen because we do not pay enough attention to what the gvmt. does.  Gvmt when left alone will slowly attempt to reduce your rights and increase it's power through taxes, laws, and other means.  It is the nature of government to try to become more powerful.  It is the duty of the citizen to make sure the government does not become to powerful.  It's a constant game played between all governments and the people governed.

This also holds true for the right to "keep and bear arms" in this country. The origonal idea was not for each state or township to have a militia, but to arm the populous so that in the event of something crazy happening in the government, we would have the ability as citizens to rise up against them.

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This also holds true for the right to "keep and bear arms" in this country.  The origonal idea was not for each state or township to have a militia, but to arm the populous so that in the event of something crazy happening in the government, we would have the ability as citizens to rise up against them.

And that is the caziest thing i have ever heard.

"ne has the right to bear arms"So it is written in your U.S Constitution,And the constitution cannot be re written.No wonder there is so many killings in this country.

Very Sad.

They enforced a law in U.K a few years ago banning all firearms.Look at the ratio of killings there inflicted with a firearm.

I really think that U.S should look at the rest of the world and take note of what other governments do.

But then the U.S do want to police the world don't they.And have the oil(Mr Bush)

No offence and that is my opinion of course.

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UNless your the actual bulding owner, which most tenants are not. There is no free speech right and freedom of expression in the private industry. If your a tenant, you have to go by the guidlines that a property manager has put into place i.e. a sign criteria. The city planning and zoning departments will hold the property manager to that which the property owner had radified. Most criteria's especially the new ones I see now will spell out that all signs have to have the tenants name and logo's only, no extra verbage beyond their published name (Name picked at time of pulling their business permit) of what they do unless they are a national chain (This helps sign pollution and dilution of quality)

Sign criterias and zoning laws in my city of San Diego ONLY take affect in the "Public Right Of Way" I just did a sign for a client who's 200,000 sf building is behind a industrail mall of a main road. Since his build cannot be seen from any Public Right Of Way, zoning does not apply to him. He can basically make his sign as big and long as he wants.

With a approved permit I Level you should have no problem winning against the city, I would take this up with the head planner. If they approved it they have to stick with it as long as you did not deviate from the original plans.

As far as I'm aware free speech and advertising are two different forms of expression. But I could be wrong

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I Level, this is the greatest nation and the most free in the world. The right to bear arms was written primarily so we could protect ourselves against and over bearing government and at the time it was England. Crimes commited in this country are 90% illegal arms and not the permit holding simple citizen.

What I love about this country is we will never take notice and change our ways to fit into the rest of the world, that's what makes this nation of ours so great. I don't want a governing body that will appease and message individuals and terrorist nations. We have very high standards and morals in this counrty and thats what your Britain and our nation are fighting so very hard to hold and maintian. Resolve. To associate this war and Our great President Bush with oil and your Blair is ignorants

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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UNless your the actual bulding owner, which most tenants are not.  There is no free speech right and freedom of expression in the private industry.  If your a tenant, you have to go by the guidlines that a property manager has put into place i.e. a sign criteria.  The city planning and zoning departments will hold the property manager to that which the property owner had radified.    Most criteria's especially the new ones I see now will spell out that all signs have to have the tenants name and logo's only, no extra verbage beyond their published name (Name picked at time of pulling their business permit) of what they do unless they are a national chain (This helps sign pollution and dilution of quality) 

Sign criterias and zoning laws in my city of San Diego ONLY take affect in the "Public Right Of Way"  I just did a sign for a client who's 200,000 sf building is behind a industrail mall of a main road.  Since his build  cannot be seen from any Public Right Of Way, zoning does not apply to him.  He can basically make his sign as big and long as he wants. 

With a approved permit I Level you should have no problem winning against the city, I would take this up with the head planner.  If they approved it they have to stick with it as long as you did not deviate from the original plans.

As far as I'm aware free speech and advertising are two different forms of expression.  But I could be wrong

Basically West Coast.

I told my client to present his case to not only the town but the state.As soon as he mentioned this the town Kinda shut their gob as so to speak.

It made me think 'what on earth is this place all about'. getting back to my point d'frent strokes.

On another tip.I find it very strange that exterior of buildings signs have to be regulated so that they are not too big and do not invade peoples privacy but on questioning the town one is entitled to apply as many vinyl graphics and as big as size as one wants to interiors of shop and store wndows.Does this also apply with Neon? If so then surely a 30 foot sqare neon sign would be an invasion of privacy as formentioned in SIGNQUARTERS post.

I just don't get it.It is such a load of hipocracy.

I just wonder if a case like this would hold up in a court of law?

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Maybe your right ilevel. Maybe Bush should step down and let some thin skinned panzy take over. God forbid the USA get attacked by terrorists and our president go after them. The man said it right off that the terrorists and anyone known to help them out to attack us had better watch out cause I'm coming for you. Hell he even tried to go about it the politically correct way by going to the united nations. I have no doubt that things would be more in Bush's favor had he moved sooner. As it was everybody got the time to get ready for us.

As for the zoning it can be crap at times. One of the towns we work in has a mall that has a message center that can display graphics and change messages at will. But anyone else that wants a message center can only let it change once every minute. And absolutely no flashing.

TEastin

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Maybe your right ilevel. Maybe Bush should step down and let some thin skinned panzy take over. God forbid the USA get attacked by terrorists and our president go after them. The man  said it right off that the terrorists and anyone known to help them out to attack us had better watch out cause I'm coming for you. Hell he even tried to go about it the politically correct way by going to the united nations. I have no doubt that things would be more in Bush's favor had he moved sooner. As it was everybody got the time to get ready for us.

As for the zoning it can be crap at times. One of the towns we work in has a mall that has a message center that can display graphics and change messages at will. But anyone else that wants a message center can only let it change once every minute. And absolutely no flashing.

Travis.

Yes i agree with a country to defend itself and seek out and destroy the enemy.

What on earth is going on over in Iraq?When were Iraq the enemy?

As recent events in England in regards to the terrorist acts have occured, standards have been set.

Look at how swiftly the terrorists were captured and with not an ounce of bloodshed upon someone else's country.

That is where i think the U.S should look and learn a thing or two.

England have been under attack of terrorism for years now and we have dealt with it in order where we have the right to defend our nation and all citizens that belong to us(Including Northern Ireland) and go after the enemy and capture.But not go and smoke out a population of innocent people.Get a fucking grip Mr Bush!!

I wonder why Osama has not been captured yet? Maybe he has the hold on the Oil cartel after all he is a suadi by natural birth.

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England has not caught anyone of importance from the first bombing yet, only the second failed attempts. If you don't already know why we are in iraq I Level it would take to long to explain, but I can give you a very short and vague reason

1. 13 Nations and their intelligence all agreed Sadamm house weapons of mass destruction

2. The Jordanian Al Queda Terrorist Al-Zurawi (Not sure if it's spelled right) was injured in the Afghan battles and Sadamm took him in. (Aid and Harbor a known Terrorist)

3. Sadamm aloud terrorists to train and camp in Northern Iraq

4. Sadamm did not conform or acknowledge the weak and corrupt body's of the UN (Which the US should give up it's membership) resolutions

5. Saddam Massacured his own people

Results of Invasion of Afghan and Iraq?

1. A more free nations with elections (First in history of muslim nations)

2. Free trade, Free trade will spread freedoms (Domino affect to touch on all neighboring nations of the muslim world.

3. Start freedoms of the oppressed woemn of the muslim world

4. Spread of education (10-15% of the muslims in those nations can read) With education will spread awareness and freedoms

5. Syraians were kicked out of Lebonan (Lebonan citizens seen holding up signs and chanting saying "Mister Bush please come here!")

6. Kadafi gives up his arms and attempted nuclear programs.

7. Iran is in mid style revolt against their present regime (More freedom?)

8. 80% of the Iraqi's want their freedom, Insurgentsy is being fought by Foreign fighters from Syria and Iran.

9. US occupied Germany for 10 years and Japan for 8 before giving them up to run on their own

10. Afghan and Iraq were just in the Olympics and that has not been so in over 40 years

When Iraq and Afghan can be finally on their own they will be a shinning example to all muslim nations and how they can live unrepressed and prosper. Everyday Iraq becomes stronger, we just need the push over Europen countries to become stronger and less weak kneed on terrorism. Props to Italy for enforcing the no Turban covered face law. When you have Mayors like the one in London who will appease to the hardcore extremists muslims and invite them to dinners, they will walk all over you and take and bomb you. This is what seperates us from the rest of the world, I'm glad we have a Cowboy like Bush is is very "Reaganist" If Regan was in office, lord help the terrorists of the world "I'm coming for you and Hells coming with me!"

With the sad loss of almost 2k of our grand and heroic soilders has been a small price to pay compared to single battle losses in past wars. Every loss is precious and felt

London a little different on how they let Radical Extremists protest and call for the end of England and the US, I'd like to see some try it here. I'd walk right to one and punch him in the mouth, and I'm sure I'd be one of the many.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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England has not caught anyone of importance from the first bombing yet, only the second failed attempts.  If you don't already know why we are in iraq I Level it would take to long to explain, but I can give you a very short and vague reason

1. 13 Nations and their intelligence all agreed Sadamm house weapons of mass destruction

2. The Jordanian Al Queda Terrorist Al-Zurawi (Not sure if it's spelled right) was injured in the Afghan battles and Sadamm took him in. (Aid and Harbor a known Terrorist)

3. Sadamm aloud terrorists to train and camp in Northern Iraq

4. Sadamm did not conform or acknowledge the weak and corrupt body's of the UN (Which the US should give up it's membership) resolutions

5. Saddam Massacured his own people

Results of Invasion of Afghan and Iraq? 

1. A more free nations with elections (First in history of muslim nations)

2. Free trade, Free trade will spread freedoms (Domino affect to touch on all neighboring nations of the muslim world.

3. Start freedoms of the oppressed woemn of the muslim world

4. Spread of education (10-15% of the muslims in those nations can read)  With education will spread awareness and freedoms

5.  Syraians were kicked out of Lebonan (Lebonan citizens seen holding up signs and chanting saying "Mister Bush please come here!")

6. Kadafi gives up his arms and attempted nuclear programs.

7.  Iran is in mid style revolt against their present regime (More freedom?)

8.  80% of the Iraqi's want their freedom, Insurgentsy is being fought by Foreign fighters from Syria and Iran.

9. US occupied Germany for 10 years and Japan for 8 before giving them up to run on their own

10.  Afghan and Iraq were just in the Olympics and that has not been so in over 40 years

When Iraq and Afghan can be finally on their own they will be a shinning example to all muslim nations and how they can live unrepressed and prosper.  Everyday Iraq becomes stronger, we just need the push over Europen countries to become stronger and less weak kneed on terrorism.  Props to Italy for enforcing the no Turban covered face law.  When you have Mayors like the one in London who will appease to the hardcore extremists muslims and invite them to dinners, they will walk all over you and take and bomb you.  This is what seperates us from the rest of the world, I'm glad we have a Cowboy like Bush is is very "Reaganist"  If Regan was in office, lord help the terrorists of the world "I'm coming for you and Hells coming with me!"

With the sad loss of almost 2k of our grand and heroic soilders has been a small price to pay compared to single battle losses in past wars.  Every loss is precious and felt

London a little different on how they let Radical Extremists protest and call for the end of England and the US, I'd like to see some try it here.  I'd walk right to one and punch him in the mouth, and I'm sure I'd be one of the many.

Come on now Westcoast.You know as well as i do that it was a wrong thing to go into Iraq and blast the hell out of innocent people, and sustain a loss to many fine brave men and women of the forces.

Womd? Where on earth are they.If America can get a man to the moon and pinpoint him as to an exact position with all their technology.How can they not locate Womd now.

Sorry mate but i just don't buy it.

It stinks of OIL!! Have you seen farenheit 911?

If that so be the case the way U.S got involved with Afghan and Iraqi politics then why are they not in North Korea disarming them of their Womd or so called Womd http://fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/IB91141.pdf or why are they not bombing the hell out of the so called palestinians(who are terrorists, the so called enemy) who do pose a terror treat and are blowing innocent israelis sky high, and have affiliations with al qaeda the enemy of the united states.

I tell you why because its all about the OIL.How hard is it to work that one out.

Anyone thinking laterally can see it.

Iraq has been granted freedom from the opression of Saadam Hussain, get out and save more troops getting killed.

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England has not caught anyone of importance from the first bombing yet, only the second failed attempts.  If you don't already know why we are in iraq I Level it would take to long to explain, but I can give you a very short and vague reason

1. 13 Nations and their intelligence all agreed Sadamm house weapons of mass destruction

2. The Jordanian Al Queda Terrorist Al-Zurawi (Not sure if it's spelled right) was injured in the Afghan battles and Sadamm took him in. (Aid and Harbor a known Terrorist)

3. Sadamm aloud terrorists to train and camp in Northern Iraq

4. Sadamm did not conform or acknowledge the weak and corrupt body's of the UN (Which the US should give up it's membership) resolutions

5. Saddam Massacured his own people

Results of Invasion of Afghan and Iraq? 

1. A more free nations with elections (First in history of muslim nations)

2. Free trade, Free trade will spread freedoms (Domino affect to touch on all neighboring nations of the muslim world.

3. Start freedoms of the oppressed woemn of the muslim world

4. Spread of education (10-15% of the muslims in those nations can read)  With education will spread awareness and freedoms

5.  Syraians were kicked out of Lebonan (Lebonan citizens seen holding up signs and chanting saying "Mister Bush please come here!")

6. Kadafi gives up his arms and attempted nuclear programs.

7.  Iran is in mid style revolt against their present regime (More freedom?)

8.  80% of the Iraqi's want their freedom, Insurgentsy is being fought by Foreign fighters from Syria and Iran.

9. US occupied Germany for 10 years and Japan for 8 before giving them up to run on their own

10.  Afghan and Iraq were just in the Olympics and that has not been so in over 40 years

When Iraq and Afghan can be finally on their own they will be a shinning example to all muslim nations and how they can live unrepressed and prosper.  Everyday Iraq becomes stronger, we just need the push over Europen countries to become stronger and less weak kneed on terrorism.  Props to Italy for enforcing the no Turban covered face law.  When you have Mayors like the one in London who will appease to the hardcore extremists muslims and invite them to dinners, they will walk all over you and take and bomb you.  This is what seperates us from the rest of the world, I'm glad we have a Cowboy like Bush is is very "Reaganist"  If Regan was in office, lord help the terrorists of the world "I'm coming for you and Hells coming with me!"

With the sad loss of almost 2k of our grand and heroic soilders has been a small price to pay compared to single battle losses in past wars.  Every loss is precious and felt

London a little different on how they let Radical Extremists protest and call for the end of England and the US, I'd like to see some try it here.  I'd walk right to one and punch him in the mouth, and I'm sure I'd be one of the many.

And believe me on many occasions have i wanted to do just that.But it's called 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' something i am sure you know all too well about.

On this note.I have walked into Times Square New York many times and have seen a bunch of clowns who call themselves 'The black Hebrew' preach on how the white man is a devil and that the government of this country is being led by satan.Do your homework mate and then compare our two countries pretty much the same i would say.Just who is the puppetmaster U.K OR U.S?

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It stinks of OIL!! Have you seen farenheit 911?

That's all I had to see you say, now I understand you.

I have never seen a muslim extremist ever on TV, in person in the US marching and having a ralley with a Hate US Sign in their hand. It's very hard for me to believe that their chanting around in New York of all places.

I Level out of curiosity, why are you in the US? You always speak so highly of England and so pro-purchase England for your supplies. I know your proud of your country and I respect that, but my impressions of you is that your a US basher.

There are two groups of immigrants who come to this country. Ones who want to be here for a better life and ones who want to suck it dry like a leech. Which are you?

BTW, North Korea is something we don't even have to touch. China can take care of all that through trade. We feed N. Korea anyway, and if China finally want to put a stop to them, they can. China is probably going to be the last world threat, but their getting a tastew of free and open markets each and everyday. Like the Solviet Union, Communism will fall. Watch it erode.

If your getting your news from Micheal Moron and the liberal press (CNN BBC) I have to go with everyone else and say you need to "think outside the box".

Bush and Blair got the record breaking number of popular votes, which tells me majority of the nations think like me and get it.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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That's all I had to see you say, now I understand you.

I have never seen a muslim extremist ever on TV, in person in the US marching and having a ralley with a Hate US Sign in their hand.  It's very hard for me to believe that their chanting around in New York of all places.

I Level out of curiosity, why are you in the US?  You always speak so highly of England and so pro-purchase England for your supplies.  I know your proud of your country and I respect that, but my impressions of you is that your a US basher. 

There are two groups of immigrants who come to this country.  Ones who want to be here for a better life and ones who want to suck it dry like a leech.  Which are you?

BTW, North Korea is something we don't even have to touch.  China can take care of all that through trade.  We feed N. Korea anyway, and if China finally want to put a stop to them, they can.  China is probably going to be the last world threat, but their getting a tastew of free and open markets each and everyday.  Like the Solviet Union, Communism will fall.  Watch it erode.

If your getting your news from Micheal Moron and the liberal press (CNN BBC) I have to go with everyone else and say you need to "think outside the box".

Bush and Blair got the record breaking number of popular votes, which tells me majority of the nations think like me and get it.

Excuse me but i did say 'Black Hebrews' chanting the white man is the devil and this country is run by stan.Did i not.

I can see how you get deffensive over your Great country and one that it is alongside the good American people.

I can't stand the anti semetic BBC or NBC or come to think of it most news agencies. and i say that for the sheer fact that they show such anti semitism towards Israel.And yes i do have family and friends there to whom i have lost due to terrorism.

I have close ties in America family, friends and i have chosen to come here (well a woman did it to me hahahah) :P No only J/K.

I love this country and the fact that there is so much oppertunity to have a great life if desired and a bit of hard work.

I do love my beloved England and always will.I do not dislike this country one iota.

So please whatever you do West Coast don't start taking this post out of context like the last one was.

It seems every time i post something here it starts to get rather contreversial somewhat.

On North Korea.I fear that the U.S will get their tight ass's whooped if they were to enter it and i think that most people (OUTSIDE OF THE BOX) see it that way too.

Never the less.Lets call it a truce CUZ as that,s how our governments see it.

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Good stuff West Coast Signguy.

Overall I think going overseas was a good idea for everyone involved. Granted, like many other things in life, just how good will not be seen right away.

I wonder what people would think of Bush if he did the weapons of mass distruction. Like I wrote before, I think he got screwed by taking the politically correct way. If a drug dealer knows the cops are coming to raid their house they will be hiding their stash.

TEastin

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Good stuff West Coast Signguy.

Overall I think going overseas was a good idea for everyone involved. Granted, like many other things in life, just how good will not be seen right away.

I wonder what people would think of Bush if he did the weapons of mass distruction. Like I wrote before, I think he got screwed by taking the politically correct way.  If a drug dealer knows the cops are coming to raid their house they will be hiding their stash.

Tell ya what guys.

Seeing as this is swaying away from the topic ..yet again.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.Most of whom i have come into contact with over here on the east coast and most on the west coast tend to agree with me.The mid of this country however have a view which i can't understand.

I am thinking outside the box and coming from U.K can see it in both perspectives ..You know from two countries that share views in a similar way.

Do a poll see how many people opposed the war or so called war on terror and not just a poll on this website.

Lets go after the real Criminal ...wonder who that can be..Finishing Daddies Business! Look at your gas prices escalate and at what speed. OIL OIL OIL

Don't be so ignorant The majority of the world was opposed to this attack on Iraq.

And i would love to see the Womd.

God you lot should be politicians, You do love an arguement.

What really does sadden me is how Americans can be so short sighted.Please do not get offended by that remark.There is a world out there and for too many years America did not realise this.Now it's time to start thinking outside the box

Have a swell Day.

Interesting yet again how a topic i post is taken to another dimension.

Hmmmm

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LOL, your posts become controversial because you make them that way. You expect to walk out of a room and say peace with your middle finger up.

We don't care what the rest of the world thinks, but once again were having to fight for it because all they do is roll over.

Who cares what the Black Hebrews and Wanabe nazi skinheads think, they aren't in the middle of the street saying America sucks. We have a problem with race relations in this country but that is even getting better as time goes forward.

North Korea my friend is a 3rd world nation like Iraq, forced to fight if it goes down. Howe many do you think would drop their arms if they saw us coming? If anything a revolt would happen as the war ensued.

Our oil prices go up becasue we refuse to dig in our own land or are crutched to think we shouldn't thx to tree huggers who thinks man is responsible to fictional global warming.

Short Sighted? Were the reason your not speaking German friend. Beside your thinking I love England and I know we will fight side by side like brothers in arms. We have eachothers backs like no tomorrow.

Very hard for me to invision us with tight asses and getting our asses whooped, not in this day and age

****Edited- Sorry to the rest of you who should read this. I don't like mixing politics and try to leave it out. But were at war right now and I hate to hear this crap while it's going on. I live near a lot of military(San Diego is a huge Military community) and I see a lot of families witout their mothers fathers husbands wifes and kids because their on the other side of the world while I sit at home working everyday and taking my kids to the park and enjoying everyday freedoms some take for granted

I Level I'll still have beer with you even though I can't stand your politics

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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