Sign Builder Illustrated - January 2011 Issue

[Erik Sine]

It's a Green issue this month. http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/sbi0111/index.php#/0

SBI seems to be the only trade magazine turning the corner on neon when it comes to signs. SOT seems to get angry letters written to the editor as of late

Now that being said,look who's back in the news like a dead whale that washed up ashore 5 weeks after it died. Steve Williams of Harbinger sign with the same rambling of how he's going to save clients 60%-80% in energy saving with his energy consultants and free energy audit. Savings which he still declined to display here in front of fellow electric sign colleagues after he said he was going to do. But when reality charts and graphs coupled with chalkboard math figures come out, maybe it was best to stay in hiding and weather the storm.

This is as big as a flop as John Travolta's "Battlefield Earth" The trailer looked good but the film just didn't sell

But super technology has his magic saving product is "Patent Pending", how many products do we currently use today are still "patent pending", and for how many years? but at least it gives it that "Sheek" sound of "OOOOOOooooo....I'm using a Patent pending products that saves me money in my signs, and 80% no doubt"

I see he's still showing off his USLED crammed "O" to show potential clients how bright his energy efficient signs are that will save them a whopping 60%-80% energy savings. What should only be a manufacturer spec'd letter containing about 6-7 modules his carries 13 (doubled), surely it's bright but it's not the energy saving it's claimed to be. Just like a duplicated story copy and pasted from Signs Of The Times it's nothing more than "more" generalizations of Client "duping" regurgitated in another trade magazine. This actually makes Harbinger Signs second appearance in SBI if memory serves correct.

Here's more on Steve Williams Harbinger from Septembers issue from Signs Of The Times

Perhaps the same consultants can do another study, how many foot prints from their office across the bay and off a pier. Wonder how much money can be saved by carbons having to print such nonsense. How much reading time from our regular jobs that make us the money that it does to put food on the table and not get distracted by reading this? They should calculate that too by the online and print copies by all who stumble across it. I'm sure it will be in the $$Million$$

Thought I'd include a nice proposal of the 7-eleven sign Steve Williams of Harbinger Sign has so nicely submitted for his fluff piece. I even included a .ai file so those can see for themselves

HARBINGER PROP.ai

As you can see just from the above figures if he is trying to impress his potential clients they are paying for more, and getting less back in return, especially in brightness.

I'll update this post with a quick ROI on just bare components shortly.

Lastly, I'm in the back, see me???

Article on my channel letter jobs using custom coated CCFl lamps, chopped up from the original questions about why the neon market has died. I do wish they would have published the picture of the yogurt sign. Maybe I can post the original write up later.

Here is the one I submitted. And yes, it's REALLY, that bright! That's why I included neighboring signs as well, a new AT&T store with white GE LEDs, and Panda Express with exposed red neon which don't degrade in light over time.

Oh well, I know they have limited room for these things in a single issue and they have to end as fast as an episode of Miami Vice. At least the Tri-Phosphor & Rare Earth Phosphor story got it's due and playing time for the industries sake.

This is my last article you will see me in, thanks to SBI for "keeping it real" in the electric sign industry. SBI was he first trade mag to ever enter my fingers, it's been my favorite ever since when coming into the trade 18 years ago, so it's been an honor to have been in a few articles.

[Erik Sine]

Did some quick figures on the above DS cabinet (Wholesale supplier component pricing)

USLED Quasars $5.88 per mod + 60W PS = $491

Neon $5.25 per foot @ 21' + SST = $ $160.25

Fluorescent $5.00 per lamps + Ballast, tombstones = $71.44

USLED Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $21.02

Neon Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH

- 15mm = $27.42

- 13mm = $32.83

Fluorescent Lamps, Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $56.44

USLED Quasar ROI

over 15mm Neon = 51.5 years

over 13mm Neon = 28 years

over Fluorescent HO = 21.5 years

[Brian]

It's amazing how those figures never seem to be added to fluf articles and ads

[Camelot Sign]

It is funny how the initial cost of installation seems to get left out of the equation.

[Brian]

I thought this article was really just a self promoting fluff piece. They claim their pat pending retrofits save up to 80% energy costs and ROI of three years. What do you guys think of this article?

[saneon]

I thought this article was really just a self promoting fluff piece. They claim their pat pending retrofits save up to 80% energy costs and ROI of three years. What do you guys think of this article?

Haven't read it but they did a similar article for the SOT a couple of months ago making the same far fetched claims.

They can't prove their claims though and hide behind the excuse that it's proprietary information . I guess they must know something that no one else in the sign industry knows

[Brian]

If they really can pull off what they claim I'm all about retro-fitting with LEDs hell who wouldn't? But I just don't see it yet, and just wanted to know if I am missing something.

[UFB Fabrication]

99% of the time I would never like to see new regs or gooberment over site. I really think that ISO or UL MET or some recognized body should do a study and publish the wild and IMHO overblown claims of all this so called green technology. These claims are no better than the male enhancement pills. What would happen if I used this so called data and sold a national account and later was sued because the product does not perform as advertised.

[UFB Fabrication]

Did some quick figures on the above DS cabinet (Wholesale supplier component pricing)

USLED Quasars $5.88 per mod + 60W PS = $491

Neon $5.25 per foot @ 21' + SST = $ $160.25

Fluorescent $5.00 per lamps + Ballast, tombstones = $71.44

USLED Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $21.02

Neon Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH

- 15mm = $27.42

- 13mm = $32.83

Fluorescent Lamps, Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $56.44

USLED Quasar ROI

over 15mm Neon = 51.5 years

over 13mm Neon = 28 years

over Fluorescent HO = 21.5 years

Is the light output measured on the face equal ?

[Erik Sine]

Did some quick figures on the above DS cabinet (Wholesale supplier component pricing)

USLED Quasars $5.88 per mod + 60W PS = $491

Neon $5.25 per foot @ 21' + SST = $ $160.25

Fluorescent $5.00 per lamps + Ballast, tombstones = $71.44

USLED Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $21.02

Neon Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH

- 15mm = $27.42

- 13mm = $32.83

Fluorescent Lamps, Power 12hrs a day, 365 days @ $.10 KWH = $56.44

USLED Quasar ROI

over 15mm Neon = 51.5 years

over 13mm Neon = 28 years

over Fluorescent HO = 21.5 years

Is the light output measured on the face equal ?

No, check out post #1, on the picture. I have what the light output comparison is to the neon, courtesy of The Great White Hope Project of course

[geraldi]

Question,

I know a typical 60 watt led driver pulls 0.7 amps @ 120 volts. How many amps does a neon transformer (7500/30 or 60) pull @ 120 volts.

Edited January 21, 2011 by geraldi

[Erik Sine]

Question,

I know a typical 60 watt led driver pulls 0.7 amps @ 120 volts. How many amps does a neon transformer (7500/30 or 60) pull @ 120 volts.

For this particular job? I have a 5k that is .75 max loaded, so maybe .85 amps or so on a 30ma.