Sign Codes?

[Erik Sine]

I'm having a conversation in a thread at signweb with a Mr. T, and it's making me wonder. Is there scrict sign codes where you do business that's keeping you from making money. It just seems very self defeating for a city to stay and maintain competitive business wise along with making revenue from permits. I'm in socal and I just don't see it, Cali loves their money from businesses. He's talking about wanting to hire lobbyist on behalf of the sign industry to fight sign codes. I'm sure theres some small towns who just like to stay small or historic area or zones. But complete cities?

As a business owner if I had a retail store that depended on adverts I would move to another town or city. In turn i'm sure others would follow. Laike many go to Arizona to escape high taxes and regulations.

[Travis]

We are based in the twin city setting at the home of the Fighting Illini. One is the older of the two and often very difficult to work with and in. I dont consider them to be business friendly as they use stricted guidelines that need to be followed before they will allow a business in. The other town is very easy to get along with.

An example of older cities sign issues would be a freestanding sign face change that I sold two years ago. I was doing nothing to the sign other than changing the name on the faces. No structure change at all. I knew that I would need a permit because I was changing the name(if the name would stay the same only to change the layout, no permit needed).But I decide, because the town is somewhat difficult to deal with, to call and ask if there will be any thing else I need to know about. Turns out the codes have changed since the sign was originally installed. This means, even though all I want to do is change the name on the face, I will have to move the entire sign fifteen feet off the property line. The sign was basically set right next to the property line originally. This sign was dead set(pole directly in the ground) with plenty of concrete. The other would require this move if the sign were to change structurally.

Another example would be a local mall in the older town that has a electronic message center that is able to change messages almost at will. For what ever reason no other business can have an electronic message center that changes as ofter as quickly. My boss has argued about this with the city several times as other businesses wanting the same thing. The city offers the reason that the mall advertises activities for the city. So the wanting business offers the same for the city but the city still denies. The other town is consistent to say no to everyone.

Something else that strikes odd to me is that the older town needs to know how much we charge the customer for the sign project. The other could care less.

[B.O.P.]

Travis, Sounds like that area has its own little dictatorship going. I can see all kinds of legal implications with the instances you mentioned. A "Grandfather" clause on the sign face change just to mention one.

WCSG, Speaking of city codes, Hilton Head, SC is for the most part an upper-end golfing community. They do not allow ANY illuminated signs and the signs they do allow cannot be over a certain height.

[Travis]

Dictatorship is pretty close. We like to put socialist republic in front of the name of the town. The easier town is growing rapidly while the difficult town is sufferingin my opinion. I think it is good that they are strict with things but some things dont maked sense and maked it not only difficult to get inspections passed as well as folks not wanting to have their business there. All the big nation wide stores go to the easier town. I take that back they are letting walmart build a store. Just think, what I have described I could keep going. They are definitely something else.

[VSP Raleigh]

I had a $500 banner sold to a mexican resturant last week... going on the side of the building, storefront faces away from US70. Got the OK from the property management. Clayton, NC shot me down "banners are only allowed within city limits for 30 days out of the year"

Pissed me off to no end.

[joemomma]

Most cities and counties have a web site and within that web site the sign ordinance can be found. It's important to study the ordinance as they vary, and sometimes widely, from city to city, and county to county. For instance, Boone County, Ky., my county of residence, has one of the strictest and costliest sign ordinances in the state. Zoning requires a permit for each exterior or mall sign installed, including parking lot signs, and the fee is based on the size of the sign. The building department requires a building permit for each exterior or mall sign installed, and the fee is based on the cost of the sign to the customer. In Boone County, border tubing is considered signage, and the square footage must be calculated (15mm x 350') and added to the total square footage per building. And if only one building sign is allowed, forget about border tubing. I'll bet there's not another county (not even on the left coast) in the country with this rule.

I'm doing a project now in Campbell County and the requirement is a single sign permit and a flat fee of $30. The fees in Boone County can easily be 10x that amount and more. Yet state law mandates that the fees for permits can only be as much as the cost to administer them. It has been litigated, but somehow Boone County has convinced the state that the county is within the law. State law allows for private firms to inspect electrically, and that fee is around $50 per sign.

Boone County's TAD (temporary advertising displays, or banners) requires that the banner can only stay up for 14 days at a time, and you can do this 5 times a year. The permit fee is $35 each time you put it up.

I agree with Travis, this is all very socialistic, but you can't blame the governments that enact these draconian regulations. They're doing what they think is the bidding of their voters, who half the time aren't thinking when they pull that lever or punch that chad.