The SOT Stance on forums - Who oppose their reporting

[Erik Sine]

The Community Organizer is open for discussion on how his magazine reports on our industry, and we seem to be bringing down the industry into a "poor light" because we don't agree with the way we are being told. So in opposition we're "envious/jealous" individuals trying to make a name for ourselves

"FREE “Signs of the Times” MAGAZINE Subscription"

http://www.linkedin....ack=.gmp_105546

[Erik Sine]

I just realized and got notified that non members of Linkedin can't see it, so I'll quote it here below

Wade Swormstedt Post #5

"Erik, perhaps you've overlooked our alternating, monthly Strictly Electric and Strictly Commercial columns in which sign companies explain specifically how they handled jobs. Maybe you've missed our bi-monthly Moving Message column. However, I'm happy you like two of our technical writers. We appreciate constructive criticism.

Sometimes, in various websites and forums, envious/jealous people try to make names for themselves by bashing anyone who's achieved the status/recognition that continues to elude them. Unfortunately, they don't comprehend the distinction between constructive and destructive criticism, and the latter's ramifications. Consequently, by disparaging numerous recognized entities, they portray their entire industry in a poor light, even if their intention is the opposite. When people are not where they want to be, they generally have two choices: raising themselves up or bringing everyone else down. That kind of attitude characterizes how both Democrats and Republicans care more about hurting each other than helping our country. "

Erik G Post#6

"You are right, our industry has "Poor Light", and funny you talk about "bring everyone else down"

If you're implying my blogging about your magazine is some how my way or raising myself up, you're sadly mistaken. The fact is I love MY industry and I hate to see it bastardized in the fashion that it has by our industry leaders and media.

The problem outside your two tech writers is, there is NO fact checking, or background check on ANY data you publish. In fact it's the main reason why Neon & Fluorescent lamps have been GREATLY mis-characterized! For years LEDs have been made out to be a "wonder" light source, also Mis-characterized. Your own tech writers even discuss this, but yet in MANY other places of your magazine there is contradiction in the form of what either looks like obligation pieces to advertisers, or infomercial articles written by people who want to elevate themselves and to whoever THEIR clients are. Neon for YEARS has been this anti-green light source (so untrue), and LEDs somehow is not (these are mainly manufactured where? The fact is you don't check anything that is submitted to you, you just hit "print". BUT, yet you contradict Marcus or Nisa when doing so. You really should be running these submission by both of them before deciding to publish, your becoming a tool for outside marketers.

Do you really think there is 90% saving in energy when it comes to equal light source output using LEDs over Neon or Fluorescent lamps?

What you FAIL to report is the facts, the facts is, EVERY light source has their place, EVERY light source has their advantages, and disadvantages, that goes for ALL. But that's not how you portray OUR industry to the out outside world, and to those readers "it must be true", because it's in print by journalists

I have no need to make a name for myself, but as someone who love what he does, and someone who loves his industry, ENOUGH is ENOUGH. You're magazine is part of the enabler for what is NOT true, and all you're doing is enabling FEAR marketing put out by large manufacturers who just "Execute" marketing statements, but can't explain them.

If the industry media & leadership can do a better job of reporting the actual facts, sites like The Sign Syndicate.com wouldn't be growing so fast with many of the "industry minds" who are tired of seeing their industry mis-characterized "

[saneon]

Unbelievable, He still doesn't get it

Wade's post looks like something I would expect to read on a 16 year old girl's face book page who's Daddy just bought a new car.

"you're just jealous" LOL

That mission statement made me chuckle too. I love comedy :)

Well written response Erik. Love to see post # 7 if you get it.

[Erik Sine]

I was always waiting for some type of response by him on what he would say to those that oppose his media and others like him, what he would say about our "focus group" if you will when it comes to trade magazines and his in specific. Waiting for something to explain where he might be coming from. Like you, when I first read his response I have to say I was shocked. Also, a little disappointing.

I thought maybe he might be somebody somewhat open, someone who might take constructive criticism, but he might have said it best.

"Destructive" criticism.

That time is NOW in my opinion, I think our industry has been devastated enough by the leadership and media that we're beyond "constructive". He, like others IMO (With no facts), have been so used to one way, they think that their way is/has been the only way and that they burden no responsibility to the way it's affected everyone around them. I really believe now with his response that we get a glimpse of what the inner thinking is in that media that reports on OUR industry. He REALLY has no clue, I also am of the opinion that he just believes what others tell him, what other write to him as, he believes the word of his advertisers as "truth". He almost come off like Bubba waiving his finger at us, "how dare you".

Now I really wish I would have had a conversation with him about his magazine at our Las Vegas meet when he showed up late at Dick's Last Resort, but I thought it not be the place, it would need to be more of a separate/private situation away from a drinking/party environment. At our ISA expo meets I prefer and get more conversations of personal lives and what we all do in the real world outside business and the sign industry. That's what our meets are mostly composed of, and I don't like to mix business at a fun function, or least as little as possible. Matter of fact, I don't think we hardly talk about this site at all, that's just how much fun we have carried over the few nights.

But yeah, I don't think he likes to see the growing opposition of the people, of the industry, instead he's comfortable in carrying out business like usual, and any opposition he see's it like the Repubs and democrats arguing and not getting anything done for "Our Country". Wow, I thought our Country was based on freedoms of opinion, thought, freewill and then debate, coming together on issues or against and voting on it.

I didnt know "gridlock" was a bad "destructive" thing?

I guess we are all "eluded" to the fact that WE aren't right and we envy those that he publishes, and that our math is fuzzy, and we don't have the facts right, or maybe..... he just doesn't have the courage to look behind the Wizard's curtain, even though his mind already know what it WILL see.

PS - I'm waiting for the threads deletion, just like KEN at Signs & Digital Graphics like to delete posts their too. I thought the Press likes "Freedom of Speech". They wonder why alternative media is thriving.

[imanut]

Excuse me - this is not the alternative media. This is the media.

gn

[YYZ]

So - with the thread title in mind - is it time to maybe change the name to Vader? You wanna be Luke, or Han Solo? Does K-Girl have a Princess Leia costume?

[Kgirl]

Well, since your asking about my costume....ummmmm.....I was actually going for Wonder Woman.....she kicks ass, Princess Leia, ahhh She wears too much clothing, less the better......lol lol, but with that in mind, I will be whoever you want me to be........xo

[TecnoluxMan]

These magazines might as well just be put on the will call counter in all sign suppliers>>>>>>right alongside all the brochures

[Erik Sine]

Right, located opposite side from the information data sheets that data and facts.

What he fails to understand is, words in print are more effective than words in a conversation. Even though some can read it as bullshit, readers have a tendency to believe it more and give it more "credit" because it's in print rather than hearing the same words in a conversation.

When is the last time we've read about the effectiveness, or efficiency, or better technology like tri-phosphor lamps in his magazine? Will we ever hear small facts like the fact that a red neon lamp that is not as energy efficient as an LED, does not degrade in light as a red LED module? That a red neon lamps can easily last 20 plus years? No, we won't. We won't ever hear these small facts of advantages and disadvantages, it's just always a one way street in the midst of this sugar high. Marcus might say it, but it could get contradicted in some other article 10 pages down.

An article that says, "For this project we talked out client into going with a more "Green" product, LEDs, that are more energy efficient and better/safer for the environment". That same sign company is either ignorant of facts, leaves out other options because they have no "know how" and most likely a vinyl sticky shop that went electric over night because of LEDs (something left out of the Community Organizers State of the Industry Report), or it's all about "bottom line" boom slam give me my check! Real companies sell on application, whether the end products needs Neon, Fluorescent or LEDs.

To beat a dead horse, the Community Organizer and his marketing crew don't understand this. To him, we're just "jealous", because fame and notoriety has eluded us to being in one of thier brochure articles preaching the sugar high and regurgitating what a salesmen told them. At times, a salesmen who a couple years earlier sold commercial truck parts, this supposed "jealousy" does save US in "90%" of the time looking stupid to our colleagues and fellow tradesmen and women.

Haha

[imanut]

Well, since your asking about my costume....ummmmm.....I was actually going for Wonder Woman.....she kicks ass, Princess Leia, ahhh She wears too much clothing, less the better......lol lol, but with that in mind, I will be whoever you want me to be........xo

Well - Wonder Woman could kick ass - bit too rough. Princess Leia - well, she actually believed she was a princess. Now "I dream of Jeanie" fame -- bit fiesty, but capable of granting and fulfilling all my dreams? Now that would take the straw.

gn

[megavolt512]

To the subject of fact-checking articles...

When I was involved with Sign Business many years ago, we had an "Electric Sign Advisory Board", and we were all sent articles for vetting before publication if they involved electric signs. It worked extremely well, and I really felt it improved the quality of articles published. Really cut down on erroneous information.

Keep in mind neon suppliers were never really big spenders on advertising in the trade rags. Why? They didn't really have to. The medium and the suppliers were all well established. But trade rags at the time (including SOT) seemed to put much more information into quality how-to articles based on independent journalism.

Things have really changed now. I've gotten where I immediately look up the author of an article first before I waste time reading it. Often, he/she seems to be financially connected to the products being pumped up in the story. And a particular product now almost always seems to be "featured" in every single article. This misinformation trend isn't confined to signage magazines either. Google "video news release" - that's commercial content disguised as news, and increasingly your local news station is pumping it out with their other news casts... and often without disclosure.

[Sign Ninja]

I have to agree it's a look up by author on the article page and you know what you're going to get once you read it. There's some articles of interest from time to time, but for that self indulging editor there is a reason why I registered here.

[imanut]

To the subject of fact-checking articles...

When I was involved with Sign Business many years ago, we had an "Electric Sign Advisory Board", and we were all sent articles for vetting before publication if they involved electric signs. It worked extremely well, and I really felt it improved the quality of articles published. Really cut down on erroneous information.

Keep in mind neon suppliers were never really big spenders on advertising in the trade rags. Why? They didn't really have to. The medium and the suppliers were all well established. But trade rags at the time (including SOT) seemed to put much more information into quality how-to articles based on independent journalism.

Things have really changed now. I've gotten where I immediately look up the author of an article first before I waste time reading it. Often, he/she seems to be financially connected to the products being pumped up in the story. And a particular product now almost always seems to be "featured" in every single article. This misinformation trend isn't confined to signage magazines either. Google "video news release" - that's commercial content disguised as news, and increasingly your local news station is pumping it out with their other news casts... and often without disclosure.

Boy, those were the days. I got involved going over George Doll's articles - to help keep himi on the straight and narrow. Speaking of whom - anyone ever hear from George?

gn

[TelfordDorr]

Same here. Last heard from him about a year and a half ago. He's retired, living in Black Mountain, NC (summer), and Celebration, FL (winter). VtSign email address should still be good.

[Erik Sine]

There's a name.

Thought I heard the rumor was why he left (George) was because "they", the magazine, wasn't allowing him to write articles the way he wanted to, or the way it should have been done as not to offend certain people or companies.

That's just the word on the street anyway, it carries no water of course, but how and why was that told to me?

[imanut]

Sounds like George - loved the trade and if they wouldn't let him write decent articles - that would be the end for him writing. He really didn't need to write the articles - had his sign company, full electrical work - just kept trying to better the trade. Sure hope he's well -

gn

[YYZ]

I agree about first checking who the writer is. Part of the problem is that those in certain parts of the industry don't like to share their knowledge and so when you see magazines turning to certain experts with connections to manufacturers, it's as much out of necessity as it is convenient in terms of currying favor with advertisers.

Perhaps the magazines don't pay enough for the content itself, but I think we could probably all agree that an article written by an industry supplier is still going to be more informative than one written by some newbie writer fresh out of college with no previous links to the industry. There may be a slant to the article, but it's not as bad as "anyone can install signs" - right?

I'm not sure it's fair to attack SOT specifically as pretty much all trade magazines - in every trade there is - follow this pattern. Wade is the guy who executes the publisher's plan in terms of how the magazine is put together, but his response on LinkedIn was not worded particularly well and leaves him open to the kind of replies you've made on there. I think if you did actually talk to him in person, the approach to attacking SOT content might take a different tack and wouldn't have caused his retaliatory reply.

I've been coming to this site for years and appreciate what it has to offer, but in all honesty, I come here to share with others in the industry and could do without the 'activist' slant that seems to have taken over as the theme of the site. What was first about getting clean, unfiltered info about the sign industry has become tainted not with influence of advertisers, but a 'down with the man' attitude that isn't really necessary. I think it came about organically since the site has come under question from those who themselves have been questioned here and knowing you guys, there was no doubt you'd stand up for yourselves and what you've built here, but I'm not sure you saw how this has changed the site over time.

I'm not saying you need to operate exactly like the magazines do - clearly people are here because in some ways you don't - but hat is missing is the sort of code of conduct or practices that the magazines have to abide by. Having the freedom to operate differently doesn't mean you have to take a strong or opposing stance every time it's available. There are ways to lobby and call attention to things without becoming activist, so to speak. It's possible to work alongside or even against SOT an SBI for the benefit of the industry without throwing the all tea into the harbor.

If you had spoken with Wade, he would better understand you and the site and would not have come to the conclusion that jealousy or attention getting envy are what make the site tick. Put yourself in the shoes of an outsider to the site - which is most of the traffic here outside of the regulars - and your perception of the site would be different. For all intents and purposes, this would be Wade's perspective too. The regulars 'get it' but I'll bet a large number of casual visitors, lurkers and industry people don't. People's concerns about the site have been made, are usually laughed off or dismissed, but isn't that exactly what Wade is getting called out on this time around?

Edited October 4, 2011 by YYZ

[Erik Sine]

Signs of The Times, “The World Leader In Sign Information Since 1906” Is what it says on the cover of the magazine. That’s states “leadership”, that's the magazine with the State of the Industry reports and ISA reports.

This site says, The Sign Syndicate, “Electric Sign Community”, a community made up of individuals with various opinions, not myself and myself alone, this site IS bigger than myself.

Facts vs Bashing, I think in every Thread I’ve started in the trade Magazine Forum, I’ve stated facts to go with them, not just bashing.

http://www.thesignsy...rade-magazines/

Also, take the poll done here into account done by others.

http://www.thesignsy...rade-magazines/

First, you're mistaking that only the regulars get it because they are the only ones who voice their opinion openly. I can’t even begin to tell you who CAN’T or ISN’T able to voice their opinion.

Also, you’re making the word “activist” as a dirty word. This site is VERY pro-”active” and I say that “proudly” as an industry “activist”, it always has been, it started that way and it’s filled the voids that have needed filling. In the last few years this whole county has become very pro-active and finally “awakening” to what’s going on around it, and this site along with it, because a lot on the outside affects this microcosm industry. It’s been very apparent that tea needs to get thrown into the harbor as wells tar and feathering a few/many individuals. That’s how this country started, that’s how this country will continue to survive, we have that ability and freedom.

Now, Wade who I call the “Community Organizer” is the biggest target of all trade magazines because he’s painted himself that way. When I say that way, if you read past articles going years back, he’s “championed” some causes (sign codes with planners) and he like to do so, see himself in that light. SOT is also purely for the most part all 90% pure trade magazine in our industry with a few others but they all sort of tie into the sign trade. The other trade magazines don’t, the others even go into about “bar industry business” and take tangents far from this trade. He is also the person who accepted becoming a chair for “The Signage Foundation” who gave a grand acceptance in his magazine and is continually involving himself deeper and deeper into this trade compared to other trade magazines. As a journalist, should you be doing that, I though it was about staying neutral and unbiased?

Wade has a magazine that has a legacy, what near 100 years?, and he’s been someone who was groomed for the position. This site has only been around since late Dec 2005. Wade reports on the industry and talks to a lot of people, I mean he talks to a lot of people within this industry and has for YEARS. So, in our short existence of exchanging ideas you’re telling me “we” got it, but “He (the man as you put it)” didn’t? Or doesn’t? All the people of our trade he talks to, and him being a journalist didn’t/doesn’t get it, doesn't get what he should have? Believe me Marko, he’s one of the big boys and you don’t need to make excuses for him.

In 2007 we all debunked the Officemax/North American Sign article which is where we started taking a loser look as a whole on what’s been reported or TOLD to us, we all through around patterns and came to the same conclusion that no money was saved and it wasn’t possible for Office max to “save” using SloanLED's. I wrote a letter of retraction and so did a few others which went un-noticed or replied to if I remember right. Since that time the articles written in that sense continued, and do today. This one article is just one of hundreds printed every month and portrays to outsiders “how” light sources really are, light sources have been GREATLY mis-characterized.

Now, I hate to beat a dead horse in the Trade Magazine forum, I’m tired of it, I’m sure some get tired or hearing it reading it too. But, that’s what I have to do that’s MY job now ( I don’t want this job). If you don’t think it’s making in impact, you’re wrong. I don’t like being on the side of the “activist” fence as you put it, but I have to, no one else will. A lot of newer companies/ new individuals to the trade don’t get it yet, and may ever will because it must be true “because it’s in print”

I can’t believe for one minute that Wade doesn’t “get” what he’s doing. He employs both Marcus, and Nisa, and he doesn’t get it or found it yet, there is a disconnect? It takes this lowly band of “rebels” (activists) as you put it earlier?

Suppose, I did have a conversation with Wade. Do you honestly think something would have changed? It wouldn’t have made a difference, I’m not going to steer his ship away from the way they make their money from advertising and pull him from his base to do “good”. That ship will stay a float and they will continue business as usual, with or without him. I’m NOT the only person who has told him, what I write about here, BELIEVE that! There is also a certain arrogance that goes into having a legacy, and a “he knows better than us” attitude that comes with it.

Now, I’m not saying Wade’s a bad guy PERSONALLY, his magazine as far as the electric sign trade is contradictory and it’s greatly helped in the demise of the Neon & Fluorescent lamp industry and it’s elevated LEDs as a wonder product. You and I know that, some understand that here, but a lot of newbies don’t. So this site will continue to beat that drum in preaching that ALL light sources have their place depending on the application. It’s been open mic night at the SOT and others for some time. Besides, I’ve only hit on the electric sign aspect of the trade and haven’t even dug into the other, so as you can imagine?

I really WISH, I could write about the things I know, and the things I’ve been told. I really do, this industry when it comes to trade magazines and associations are SUCH a mess, and some of the corruption, favoritism is DISGUSTING, it’s really gross. BUT, I can’t, I have to respect those people who have relayed the information who don’t want to get “involved”. This “Lite” trade magazine and association “activism” as you call it is only a flashlight being used to expose the cockroaches and I’m only skimming the top. I wish I could throw a flood on this “cake” so to speak. Off subject for a quick tangent, how was “The Neon Group” treated by this magazine? Talk about something swept under the rug wish I could say more.

But don’t think for a minute that with all the 100 years of reporting/history on the industry that the Community Organizer has that he doesn’t sit on the same information as I /we do, and the same information that we discuss here, and he “needs” me to have a conversation with him. My post in #4 is more sarcasm than anything about him “not getting it”. He just chooses to ignore, omit, and he chooses what he publishes with the though of his base in mind. I haven’t seen one grain of taking responsibility / ownership to do “better”. There was this in March of this year http://www.thesignsy...for-march-2011/ but that was just trying to dodge a bullet with spin.

Here’s a better question that should be asked, who “ELSE” is going to do, what we do here on kicking around topics when it comes to National Sign & Service company contracts, light source testing, industry media & associations if this site shuts down today? It’ll just be ice-cream parlor all day, and all night, with the “same” usual people and faces in the limelight just getting older and more wrinkle. Juuuuuuust they way they like/want it.

I’ll tell you what, what you don’t read in feedback openly on this site Marko and others, and out of fear of their position or business relationships that could be put in jeopardy. Kirstie & I hear it in person when we stroll through a show. People jump out form the woodworks and booths and tell us “thank you!”, “keep it going!” When I have that many people telling us that in person and by phone, I KNOW I have to continue and I KNOW I’ve inherited something I may or may not want to do.

By nature people don’t like to give up what they have or change their view, or what they THINK they’re entitled to.

Now, do I go a little overboard at times with my barrage, probably, but not enough to credit back what damage to this industry has been done already, credit back those who have been hurt financially by the mis-characterization. Forget the mis-characterization of light sources. Now the whole trade is being mis-characterized as a commodity where anyone can build a sign and the only difference is the marketing statement printed on your business card that separates you from your competition. It’s not even knowledge, craftsmanship, or components anymore. But this sits well with some I guess.

Alright I’m done (balls not in my court anyway), I don’t get paid to type this stuff out like some, it’s purely out of feeling like that “I need to”. Has this site changed? Probably. For the worse? I doubt it, can we/I be perfect, no. We probably used to be more “Nuts and bolts” in the beginning with something that wasn’t reported anywhere else but there is a lot that affects those “nuts and bolts” that needs to be discussed/dismantled. This thread and post deals with “trade magazines”, a fraction of what’s discussed on here compared to more helpful/useful information and mainly by myself throwing it on the table. I just want to preserve something that I love doing. If that day comes where I’m not what I once was, or sold my soul out in anyway, I hope I see it, and I hope I see it when others (like you) point it out to me. I try to steer clear of that happening, that’s why I don’t/won’t “buddy” up with manufacturers, media, associations, and the reason why I would never EVER try to make a run at any sign association/group positions. I’m just going to try and stay one part, or fraction, of others here.

Now I know we don’t agree on much Marko, probably 30/70, but there’s no better person in opposition that I’m always open to, and always look forward to hearing, no one who’s I respect more. Someone I always enjoy sitting down with when we have that opportunity.

Hopefully, hopefully there is change down the road when it comes trade magazines. But you know what they say about “Hope” it’s for those who stand and ......forget it!

[YYZ]

When I said "get it", I mean the way this site is comprised of posters who gather to share ideas on opinions. The way you intended to provide a place for open, honesty discussion and after people get to know each other a bit, talk in a way that those outside might perceive as a closed group or clique, which can be both an attraction or a repellent. Of course you get people telling you to keep it up - I can only say that I've talked to others who would cherry pick info from here but wouldn't dare join and post specifically because of the way things are discussed, joked about, etc... I've had people say some negative things to me about my involvement on here too, as other site supporters may admit if you ask them.

Wade is not an outsider to the sign biz in any way (not what I was implying), but he is not part of the clique that is the Sign Syndicate and being on the outside, he perceives things differently. That's what I meant by "doesn't get it" and the same would apply to others that come across this site and wonder "WTF is all this"?

I'm not suggesting you stop or change - you'll do with the site as you please - I'm just laying out a different viewpoint to maybe explain why things are as they are. We all rub some people in the wrong way, but almost all people are going to respond in a negative way when having a mocking nickname given to them - you and me included.

I've tried to separate my opinion from the site and never used any of the advertising I paid for as a site sponsor - but being the owner of the site you're not able to separate yourself that way. Remember that when you speak as the Sign Syndicate, you somewhat speak for everyone who posts here as if your words represent a consensus, rather than being your opinion solely. When the site forms an opinion or takes on certain issues, what can happen is that 'outsiders' or those less familiar with the site, might assume or link your personal opinions with those of everyone who posts here, or of your advertisers. I didn't intend to use the term activist as a pejorative, just that not everyone who comes here want to be lumped in with the opinions of others.

As for the Tea Party comments, maybe it's because I'm not American that I can see the forest a little better because the trees aren't in the way, so to speak. There's more of an "us-vs-them" mentality to any discussion or viewpoint sometimes, that it's automatically assumed if someone doesn't agree with you that they're against you, and it's really not necessary and can often cause as many problems as it solves. half the world's heuristics are out of whack IMO - though that's a whole different discussion that goes well beyond what we're discussing here.

Food for thought, if nothing else. It's with positive intentions that I'm making these points, as the site has grown because it serves a niche in the industry and I would like to see it continue to grow.

[Erik Sine]

I hear you, and I'm taking it in.

I know this site won't please everyone, everyone can cherry pick anything, we all do it. I also know there are people who won't join this site because the content offends them, but it's growing for some reason. This site is also not a big pleaser when it comes to advertising, I've had those conversations in person with individuals who wouldn't dare because of content and the BRUTAL honesty, it rubs them the wrong way, or their perception is it might paint them in a bad light for being apart. So, I understand your position of carefully spacing yourself. But I'm going to gamble the fact that for everyone one person who doesn't like the site, 3-5 do. There's people of the opinion everything should be run like the trade magazines and everything is hunky dory. Not everyone is going to read the content and agree with 100% or 80% or 50%, BUT the readership is big.

I can't try to appease those nor will I try to those who like the ice-cream parlors, this is a pub.

You have to have tough thick skin in a forum and to be a part of this site. I get the emails "WTF is this???"

"This is unprofessional!" and cancellations come. But the registration of new members FAR outweigh the unsubscribers. It's my site yes, but you don't HAVE to agree with me, and I don't make it a point to get that person to agree with me. I don't care the way some people advertise their products here and it's contradicts what I believe, but I don't make it a point to push myself on them. I also don't believe that the SS is me. Sometimes I have to ask myself, should I be a bystanding admin, or express my opinion too? I know expressing my opinion does perceive the SS as I, and I alone, but I don't make it that way, nor intend.

All I can say is, to new readers, read a while before judging. You will see there is no "clique" here, we all express our opinions.

This is a very controversial site, that's all I can say. The hard part is trying to find balance, there's is plenty of consequence in trying to keep this open.

The Nickname thing, after a while people just earn one from me. For me to drop they name, they need to earn that too! I'm just having fun with it, not everyone will get MY humor. Believe me, I've got plenty of them, and been given plenty of them. I've had lies made up about me too, but it doesn't bother me, and I wouldn't let it. I'm not that type, if I was I wouldn't be running this site.

When I stop having fun, or am unable to enjoy running this site which is a hobby of which doesn't pay for the time put in, I'll shut it down.

I think I've explained myself enough, I own my opinion and what I say. I'm not going to try and convince people of my opinion, but i do back it up with fact most of the time. I don't do the "Popular" thing, nor make those choices. I won't lick my finger and stick it up in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Years ago I was given an ultimatum, to get rid of one member or else he leaves and few others too, along with financial support of this website. They left, here we are, and I didn't give it a second thought, and I think I made the right choice. I'm going to do, and go with what I think is right, not the easy path, the right path. I may not be right, but I'm going to go with my gut. It's carried me this far.

So my reason for this thread is to display a opinion back at this site from an editor who runs a trade magazine. He's wrong, but there it is.

[UFB Fabrication]

I really only go to SOT for the pictures I like some of the sign designs even if we hardly get to design anything any more. I also like the sign design competition but I also wonder about some of the objectivity.