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tdewitt

Guess we better start the discussion about Obamacare and how it will affect us

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I'm nervous as hell, not because of what I know about Obamacare but what I DON'T know. I have heard and read how it will hammer the self employed and micro-business (1 - 25 employees) the most but I can't find where it specifically goes into detail about how it will do this.

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Not really any change for companies less than 50 full-time employees. If you're in this category, from what I can see you are not required to offer anything as an employer. No requirement to offer health insurance at all. But above 50, the requirements start to kick in. This is why big-box stores are sweating bullets. National companies with large numbers of low-skilled/low-wage workers will definitely take a hit.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/free_enterprise/2012/06/how-obamacares-employer-mandate-affects-small-biz.html

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For small shops like us that have way high ins. prem. is will be good. My friend in the insurance biz tells me our ins. prem. will go way down!!~!


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Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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ISA will release information next week on how Obamacare affects small companies, particularly sign companies, and what they need to do to comply. Stay tuned.

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Maby you should educate yourself Travis. I'm wondering where you've heard and read how it will "hammer" the self employed....My guess would be FOX news! You can't find specifics, but you did read and hear that it will hammer the self employed. Sounds like excellant journalism you've been reading.

It's incredible really....the people it will help the most will still find a way to hate and fear it because it wasn't what they were told to vote for.

Imagine the amount of people that hated and were afraid of Social Security when it was introduced.

I"m sure that was the master plan behind the whole system....Hammer the smallest sector of business!

Come on Travis, I'm sure you're smarter than that!

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I am in the process of really researching Obamacare on an honest and straightforward manner. I am interested in what it will and will not do for the masses of Americans that it will affect.

I think Rigby Neon is correct. Do your own research and do not be swayed by only what you are told.

Heres what I know,

1. I do know children up to the age 26 will be able to stay on their parents insurance policy. I personally know of a few fellow business people who are rejoicing at this.

2. I do know that lifetime caps will disappear.

3. I do know that starting either in 2013 or 2014 that insurance exchanges will be set up in individual states that will allow people to shop and buy into plans that are most effective for them. Either the states will run them or they will be run by the Federal Government. The choice is up to the states.

4. I do know that "Pre-existing" conditions will be outlawed in 2014 so insurance companies will have to stop "Cherry Picking" Americans who they will cover.

5. I do know that now there will be certain level of premium expenditures that will actually have to go to patient care instead of CEO and investor pockets. If the threshold isn't met, refunds will be sent to policy holders.

6. I do know that "Everybody" will be required to buy an insurance policy or be faced with a fine. If you are at poverty level or some multiplier thereof, the Federal Government will subsidize the policy.

7. I do know "Obamacare" or whatever you choose to call it or categorize it is the "LAW" and the argument is officially over. Get over it..........

But,

I do not know but believe that a pathway to a government run insurance plan will be established, or a lower Medicare buy in age or "Single Payer" system is on the horizon. Key point being in the last instance, "Single Payer" is not synonamous with "Socialized" medicine.

These things and many others that will affect small buinesses and individuals will be in the pipeline and I am researching all these for myself. I do not listen to Fox News or MSNBC, rather I read, research and listen to my own brain and subsequent opinions.


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Maby you should educate yourself Travis. I'm wondering where you've heard and read how it will "hammer" the self employed....My guess would be FOX news! You can't find specifics, but you did read and hear that it will hammer the self employed. Sounds like excellant journalism you've been reading.

It's incredible really....the people it will help the most will still find a way to hate and fear it because it wasn't what they were told to vote for.

Imagine the amount of people that hated and were afraid of Social Security when it was introduced.

I"m sure that was the master plan behind the whole system....Hammer the smallest sector of business!

Come on Travis, I'm sure you're smarter than that!

Obamacare = more tax dollars spent subsidizing a social program for the dead beats that refuse to carry their own weight.

It's f'ing ridiculous to make this priority 1 when we have no money to support it.

Here's a concept : focus on job creation and tighten the belt on spending .

I have insurance , don't want or need big bros help. Thanks

Sean Hannity said so : )

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I have done no research on this because it hasn't affected me yet, no employees and a benefit (Health, Dental, Vision) my spouse carries from her health care field.

Besides her industry hating this bill/regulation/law, what is the expected quality of health care expected to be? Same as, better, or worse?


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Since the Fed Gov has done such an outstanding job with ; Public Education system, Social Security, Welfare and it's reform, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Housing, Alternative Energy, EPA & OSHA regulations, controlling spending, slashing the deficit, and achieving a Federal Budget for the past 3 years. They might as well get into everyone's medical insurance.

After all, Medical insurance coverage, or lack there of, is synonymous with the I.R.S..

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Maby you should educate yourself Travis. I'm wondering where you've heard and read how it will "hammer" the self employed....My guess would be FOX news! You can't find specifics, but you did read and hear that it will hammer the self employed. Sounds like excellant journalism you've been reading.

It's incredible really....the people it will help the most will still find a way to hate and fear it because it wasn't what they were told to vote for.

Imagine the amount of people that hated and were afraid of Social Security when it was introduced.

I"m sure that was the master plan behind the whole system....Hammer the smallest sector of business!

Come on Travis, I'm sure you're smarter than that!

Obamacare = more tax dollars spent subsidizing a social program for the dead beats that refuse to carry their own weight.

It's f'ing ridiculous to make this priority 1 when we have no money to support it.

Here's a concept : focus on job creation and tighten the belt on spending .

I have insurance , don't want or need big bros help. Thanks

Sean Hannity said so : )

Other than you, who cares what YOU have, need, or want?

And why don't you explain your plans on "job creation" and "belt tightening spending". Or do you just blurt out what someone else has written like a lemming?

And while you're at it, give me your definition of a deadbeat. Is it the person that makes $10.00 an hour and can't afford health insurance, or his employer that makes a million a year but won't pay for his employee's health care.

Or is it maybe the guy that makes $20.00an hour and has three kids, a car with full insurance coverage, a house payment, food and clothing requirements for his children that can't afford $1200.00 a month for his family to have insurance? Which one of these scenario's best describes your idea of a deadbeat?

You're ************* somehow fortunate enough to have what you need in life so f**k everybody else, right?

Be very careful with that attitude because someday, somewhere, you will need something, and hopefully a person will come along that has the exact same mentality that you currently have.

That's called karma....look it up!

Edited by Westcoast Sign Guy
Name calling

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Here is what I do know about the mindset that provided this wonderful "right" the socialists in congress have forced upon the tax payers and against the will of the majority of citizens. It's right out of the Cloward & Piven playbook (that our president taught to his students) to bankrupt the capitalist system that has brought the world more wealth than at any other time in history. America could never be overtaken from the outside, but from within, encouraging the masses to become dependent on government and overwhelming the system will bring the system down. The US was already bankrupt. Adding this massive entitlement, excuse me, this "right" provided by Pelosi, Reid, Obama , Soros and their ilk is a sure fire way to send the country over the deficit cliff to where there is no more confidence in our currency.

But that's ok. China will hold the new world reserve currency. They are backing it with gold- like the US used to do before our government decided to provide the citizenry with massive new "rights" that could not be afforded. You think gas is expensive now? Wait until oil is no longer traded in greenbacks, but the yuan or whatever new world currency we will be trapped into.

My rights, as the founding Fathers so aptly put it, come from Nature's God- not government.

The last congress had to "Pass it, so we could find out what's in it!" Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot!

America deserves the government she elects. I call shenanigans on the last election.

Obamacare is a Trojan horse. My doctor and his associates know full well what is in the bill. They have already sent out the letters announcing they are retiring before Christmas. Ask your own doctor about the wonderful "rights" waiting for us under Obamacare.

They don't call them "Death Panels" in the bill, but a government panel will decide who gets what and how much healthcare, if any. I feel for the elderly and the sick. They are so screwed.

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Gonna jump in, I'm not defending anyone. But come on Ron.. You want the definition of a deadbeat? Let's start off with; The baby machines, who kick out a kid every year or so, or father them. They abuse the system like a drug addict does coke. They do zero for their community, country, or themselves. Then claim it's their right to continue to bring more children into this world on the tax payers dime.

The $10.00 an hour guy who doesn't have insurance...Been there done that, I was a kid then. Healthcare is always available for FREE at any County Hospital. May take a little longer, but it is available. You have to start somewhere in life. Hard work pays off soon enough, and you elevate yourself. IF you make the right life decisions.

The $20.00 an hour guy with the three kids.....Same for him, Healthcare is available for him and his children. Regardless that he lacked the common sense to have 3 kids on $20.00 an hour. But at least he has a house and has car insurance. This is his personal choice to be broke. No one should have to pitch in for that decision.

Job creation, real simple. We have a crumbling infrastructure throughout this country. There's a ton of folks that don't do shit and rely on the gov to care for them and their kids. They get shovels and start working for their gov money. The ones who can't do the physical work can make box lunches or watch all them babies. Once people learn an honest days work won't kill them. Possibly they may choose to work their way up by educating themselves or learning a trade. If they choose to do nothing, screw them. Cut them off the gov teet...They'll get cold and hungry and find something to do.

If there is no work in your geographical location, or you can't afford to live someplace...MOVE!

This country was not built by the Fed gov. It was built by our hardworking forefathers. They did it all on their own. They established the schools, hired the teachers, built the hospitals, built roads to get their goods to market, cleared the land....Hard work built this country and can save this country... Karma is for Pussies!

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Gonna jump in, I'm not defending anyone. But come on Ron.. You want the definition of a deadbeat? Let's start off with; The baby machines, who kick out a kid every year or so, or father them. They abuse the system like a drug addict does coke. They do zero for their community, country, or themselves. Then claim it's their right to continue to bring more children into this world on the tax payers dime.

The $10.00 an hour guy who doesn't have insurance...Been there done that, I was a kid then. Healthcare is always available for FREE at any County Hospital. May take a little longer, but it is available. You have to start somewhere in life. Hard work pays off soon enough, and you elevate yourself. IF you make the right life decisions.

It's hardly "free" at an emergency room? Probably the most expensive way in the world to deliver healthcare. You and I are paying for this through our increased premiums. I don't see the big deal of making "deadbeats" get insurance when we have a system where emergency rooms have to treat anyone off the street?

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.

Erik;

I was just going to type a response to the previous posts and you and Mega Volt beat me to it.

This is a big problem in the country as a whole. When we disagree, it becomes a series of Ad Homynm attacks or a string of general Vitriol. No matter which side you are on, the other side is bad, unpatriotic and simply non-human or un-American. Small wonder we are facing the financial and social cliff. The one thing that I have never done on this board has been to attack the character of any other poster. We may disagree on the content but the other opinion is just as valid or American as mine. And after seeing the jousting that went on between you and Signtiffic, I was waiting for you to jump in. You did not disappoint me and kudos to you.

As far as Obamacare, Mega Volt hit it. Whether you realize it or not, every time and unisured person enters the emergency room it is passed along to all of us via our ever increasing insurance premiums. The hospital is forbidden by law to refuse service on the basis of finance so when someone enters, gets service and then moves on, all of the rest of us pay. Why do you think that basic items like aspirin or saline bags are the same price as an ounce of gold. I am sure Eriks wife can attest to this.

And to end this, I have met with my accountant to discuss and have researched on my own. I have concluded that I will survive and my business will survive. Obamacare is the "LAW", period. Rather than spewing generic nonsense or attacking fellow Americans who disagree, figure out what you will do in practical terms. But President Obama did run on raising taxes, continuing his healthcare vision, extending the Dream Act and a host of other things that I may or may not agree with, but the majority of citizens knew this and gave him 4 more years, Get over that as well.......


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Gonna jump in, I'm not defending anyone. But come on Ron.. You want the definition of a deadbeat? Let's start off with; The baby machines, who kick out a kid every year or so, or father them. They abuse the system like a drug addict does coke. They do zero for their community, country, or themselves. Then claim it's their right to continue to bring more children into this world on the tax payers dime.

The $10.00 an hour guy who doesn't have insurance...Been there done that, I was a kid then. Healthcare is always available for FREE at any County Hospital. May take a little longer, but it is available. You have to start somewhere in life. Hard work pays off soon enough, and you elevate yourself. IF you make the right life decisions.

The $20.00 an hour guy with the three kids.....Same for him, Healthcare is available for him and his children. Regardless that he lacked the common sense to have 3 kids on $20.00 an hour. But at least he has a house and has car insurance. This is his personal choice to be broke. No one should have to pitch in for that decision.

Job creation, real simple. We have a crumbling infrastructure throughout this country. There's a ton of folks that don't do shit and rely on the gov to care for them and their kids. They get shovels and start working for their gov money. The ones who can't do the physical work can make box lunches or watch all them babies. Once people learn an honest days work won't kill them. Possibly they may choose to work their way up by educating themselves or learning a trade. If they choose to do nothing, screw them. Cut them off the gov teet...They'll get cold and hungry and find something to do.

If there is no work in your geographical location, or you can't afford to live someplace...MOVE!

This country was not built by the Fed gov. It was built by our hardworking forefathers. They did it all on their own. They established the schools, hired the teachers, built the hospitals, built roads to get their goods to market, cleared the land....Hard work built this country and can save this country... Karma is for Pussies!

"The baby machines"....Mark it's obvious what population you're referring to but there are many people out there that are working and still can't make it. The people that do nothing and expect something are not the people I defend. To say that people that can't afford health insurance are all non working baby machines is ignorant. You're lumping a way to many groups of people together. I have customers that own sign businesses that have no medical insurance.

Again, you're a guy that has what he needs so life is great, and fuck everyone else that wasn't as fortunately (or probably as lucky) as you. Keep that attitude if it's working for you. Are you also wearing a WWJD rubber band on your wrist?

And "Health care is always available for FREE at any county hospital"? WTF are you talking about, and what county do you live in? Is that something you just pulled out of your ass so you can go around thinking everyone is always able to get FREE health care? If that were the case Mark, why are we even having this discussion? I'll just tell everyone I see to go get their FREE health care down at the "county hospital".

It's obvious you live in some fantasy world Mark. You made ten dollars an hour when you were a kid? When were you a kid, five years ago?

When I was a kid minimum wage was $1.65 an hour....you're either very young or you did pretty well as a kid making $10.00 an hour.

Who pays these doctors Mark that perform all this FREE health care Mark, or do they just work for FREE? That would certainly be a poor life decision acording to you, wouldn't it Mark? What a stupid statement that was.

Like I say, you live in some little fairy tale world where "if you work hard, and of course make the right life decisions like you, everything will be great. So the $20.00 an hour guy must not be working hard enough. If he just works harder he'll get a big fat raise?

Why is it that people like you always end up referencing our "fore fathers"? Wow....have a basic, very general understanding of how our country was founded. Thanks Mark, I learned that in second grade!

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.

You're gonna need to edit! But what you should have edited was the initial biased post! We'll NEVER get through a discussion like this without name calling. Unless you don't consider "deadbeats, pussies, baby machines, and morons" name calling.

I think we all know that the term "Obamacare" was used to see how many "like minded" ( and it was with great restraint that I used that term) allies he could find in here.

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"Direct" name calling i.e "You're a Douche Bag"


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.

Erik;

I was just going to type a response to the previous posts and you and Mega Volt beat me to it.

This is a big problem in the country as a whole. When we disagree, it becomes a series of Ad Homynm attacks or a string of general Vitriol. No matter which side you are on, the other side is bad, unpatriotic and simply non-human or un-American. Small wonder we are facing the financial and social cliff. The one thing that I have never done on this board has been to attack the character of any other poster. We may disagree on the content but the other opinion is just as valid or American as mine. And after seeing the jousting that went on between you and Signtiffic, I was waiting for you to jump in. You did not disappoint me and kudos to you.

As far as Obamacare, Mega Volt hit it. Whether you realize it or not, every time and unisured person enters the emergency room it is passed along to all of us via our ever increasing insurance premiums. The hospital is forbidden by law to refuse service on the basis of finance so when someone enters, gets service and then moves on, all of the rest of us pay. Why do you think that basic items like aspirin or saline bags are the same price as an ounce of gold. I am sure Eriks wife can attest to this.

And to end this, I have met with my accountant to discuss and have researched on my own. I have concluded that I will survive and my business will survive. Obamacare is the "LAW", period. Rather than spewing generic nonsense or attacking fellow Americans who disagree, figure out what you will do in practical terms. But President Obama did run on raising taxes, continuing his healthcare vision, extending the Dream Act and a host of other things that I may or may not agree with, but the majority of citizens knew this and gave him 4 more years, Get over that as well.......

Most of this is very well said, but there are many more factors that go into the rising costs of health care. My doctor bills my insurance company $180.00 for an office visit. If you pay cash he charges $40.00. There are many things worng with our medical system, and doctors, not simply people that don't have insurance are a part of it.

They play a game just like the person trying to scam money from the government.

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.

You're gonna need to edit! But what you should have edited was the initial biased post! We'll NEVER get through a discussion like this without name calling. Unless you don't consider "deadbeats, pussies, baby machines, and morons" name calling.

I think we all know that the term "Obamacare" was used to see how many "like minded" ( and it was with great restraint that I used that term) allies he could find in here.

Ron;

With all due respect, I think the President has now embraced this term as does many Democrats and Republicans alike. But I do get your point and it is well taken.

I use the term because it is now accepted and assign no specific meaning to it. Rather it is a generic term to reference healthcare reform. But you are correct, use the term and it is code for either side to start the personal attacks.

I have kept an open mind with the new health care law and looked at the issue as an American one first. Couldn't care less what the Democrats or Republicans want to espouse ofr have me believe. I have concluded it won't end our American society and will have enemies and supporters on both sides.

But again, it is "LAW" and Obama will be preceeded with "President" for 4 more years.


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Ron, I would never be caught dead wearing a WWJD bracelet. Not that there's anything wrong with someone wearing one...It's not me.... I'm not gong to personally attack you, but there is free healthcare for people now. Other people foot the bill via taxes and higher insurance premiums, but it is available.

All I did was answer the questions in your previous post. You obviously don't agree with me. But please don't put words in my mouth, or on my wrist.

I guess you don't like my Anarchist- Libertarian point of view.

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I think we can get through this discussion/debate without the need to name call and get personal, everyone's going to have an opinion and stance.

I don't want to have to start editing, but when one person starts in, it's going to kick in a chain reaction then it becomes a free for all food fight.

You're gonna need to edit! But what you should have edited was the initial biased post! We'll NEVER get through a discussion like this without name calling. Unless you don't consider "deadbeats, pussies, baby machines, and morons" name calling.

I think we all know that the term "Obamacare" was used to see how many "like minded" ( and it was with great restraint that I used that term) allies he could find in here.

Ron;

With all due respect, I think the President has now embraced this term as does many Democrats and Republicans alike. But I do get your point and it is well taken.

I use the term because it is now accepted and assign no specific meaning to it. Rather it is a generic term to reference healthcare reform. But you are correct, use the term and it is code for either side to start the personal attacks.

I have kept an open mind with the new health care law and looked at the issue as an American one first. Couldn't care less what the Democrats or Republicans want to espouse ofr have me believe. I have concluded it won't end our American society and will have enemies and supporters on both sides.

But again, it is "LAW" and Obama will be preceeded with "President" for 4 more years.

Very smart perspective...

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Ron, I would never be caught dead wearing a WWJD bracelet. Not that there's anything wrong with someone wearing one...It's not me.... I'm not gong to personally attack you, but there is free healthcare for people now. Other people foot the bill via taxes and higher insurance premiums, but it is available.

All I did was answer the questions in your previous post. You obviously don't agree with me. But please don't put words in my mouth, or on my wrist.

I guess you don't like my Anarchist- Libertarian point of view.

Actually Mark, I would vote Libertarian if it had a chance.

I just doen't like when people generalize and lump all people that don't have what they have as loafers or babymakers. As I did when I mentioned the bracelet.

I just believe that there are people that do work hard and do try to make good life decisions and still can't get ahead. The people that do nothing and expect something I have no tolerence for either. But they are (in my opinion) a totally different group. And those people always find a way to get everything they need for free. I would love that to stop!

I don't know what the hell we would do with all those people but it would be nice to see it stop.

I have close frfiends that are dissability attorney's and the amount of people collecting is mind boggeling to say the least. I have no idea where this money comes from. Many have been in the country for only a few years but they are taught the system and they master it.

Then you have a born and raised American that may be a roofer that works every day with a sore back but because he tries his best to get to work, he now earns too much money to qualify for any assistance.

Anyway....it's will continue to be a problem for a long long time.

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Douche Bag ? haha 2 words ... "anger management"

I'll leave this alone , I don't want Rigby to have an aneurysm .

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Douche Bag ? haha 2 words ... "anger management"

I'll leave this alone , I don't want Rigby to have an aneurysm .

lol....Thanks! NO, I'm used to that type of "Mel Gibson" consiprecy theory thinking. All I'll say is, I'm no expert but I think people were recieving government money when both Bushs' were in office.

I agree it's totally a real problem....but don't blame it on one party.

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