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Kenny...I guess you drank lots of the "Union Cool Aid" and read up on the properganda booklet.

For the Record....There is NO rules or requirements in New York City that say "Signs must be installed by Union" anyone with a NYC Sign Hangers License can pull sign permits and Install any sign in all boros of NYC INcluding Times Square.

Inspections.....What the F* are you talking about. That is a pipe dream, a fantasy of the wildest imagination. Again there is NO Inspections required for any sign. Especially by a Union. That is an extortion of money and products of the outer state companies. Just more ways to steal.

The educated sign company is my best customer.

Show me your "Inspection" requirements. I DO NOT PAY anything to any union. Period.

Licenses...again I have what I need when I need it. Thank you for keeping the Buildings Dept jumping at every phone call. Paul is here, Paul is there. They are well aware of the false calls and we talk each time. In the end...I'm still working, right ?

I do speak with the owners of several NYC Union Companies and get the exact truth of whats going on. I do get the heads up on all the issues. They continue to give me work and watch the Union self destuct. Their answer is.....Bottom line, we need money to live.

Everytime the Union opens their mouth, I get more customers and they find out they were robbed for years.

Here is a True Union Story. A big National needed a complete location done. The Union goes on strike. They call me and ask me to install. I agree and say I will do the job for the Union Price. Job needs to be completed with in the same week. They tell me the Union said 6 men, 5 days. Thats a full 40 hrs each. Everything is set. I start to Install and the Union shows up to picket. I get the entire job completed with 4 men in 13 hrs. Whos the winner here ? Thanks for the customer and all the others.

This is a Union Issue subject, The issue was and still is....Unions, Everyone has a choice, and mine is not Unions,

Again...thank you for all your support and keeping an eye out for me.

game,set,match

/thread

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Hey Paul Signs.... How did I know that you'd be the one guy to post all your accomplishments and licences that you hold for NYC. Yes, I stand corrected it's not that you have to be Union to install signs in NYC but.... every sign that is installed in NYC must be inspected and approved by a UNION shop before it can be installed. CORRECT So the question is do you pay the extra money to have your signs inspected or just hire a Union shop to install and inspect it all for one price? More than likely you'll get it at a discount if the salesman knows what he or she is doing. So thanks for correcting me and when I folllowed up with my BA from Philly, Fred (and he says HI), you were the one name that he could think of that was non-union in NYC that could corret me. Thanks Again, much appreciated. How much do you charge to have your clients signs inspected again >>>>>

For the record I an Union and I work everyday. I don't sit back and wait for that "One Big Job". If you've been doing this long enough then you know the reality of what it takes to keep a shop running no matter if your union or not. I know you have such a grand repore with #137 and I'm sure the feelings mutual. Next time your down by Philly doing a job you should let me know and we'll come by an swap job horror stories and I'll bring Freddy by to wash your truck and clean up that anti-union sticker you so proudly display.

Have a great day and stay warm, it's cold outside.

The only inspection is electrical, and that is from a NYC Dept of Buildings guy who shows up late, looks for a cut-off switch and drain holes, (from the ground by the way,) because he can't get in a bucket to inspect anything else. He then hands you a sticker and leaves. There is no such thing as a union inspection. I am not union, never will be, and I love when they come blow up their big gray rat, it makes for a great photo op, of non working union guys....Paul is correct: no one HAS to be union to work in New York City. All it takes is the correct licences.

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Personally speaking of course, I like the Fat Cat blow up with the money bag in hand the best, maybe when I come visit NYC they'll have it out and then I can get a photo op!!


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I did an apprenticeship at a union shop, That was the only thing good about being in the Union, free school, and a $1 raising after passing every stage.

for years after that I didnt like unions, I though they had outlived their purpose, but now the way some companies are expecting employees to do the work

of 2 or more people, at the lowest wages I have seen in my lifetime, I think maybe Unions could be good after all :)

Edited by orlenz

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I have to say you're correct, people are doing what 2 to 3 people used to do because lately sign companies have been laying off employees. Service trucks are parked and not being used, work tables and shop floors are clean becuase no production is taking place. sign companies are having to wait 90 days to get paid. But at least some people have jobs.

Unions cant create jobs nor get sign companies to get paid for past due invoices all a union would do is make it more difficult to have a sign company turn a profit and in turn keep their workers employed.

Just my opinion

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I did an apprenticeship at a union shop, That was the only thing good about being in the Union, free school, and a $1 raising after passing every stage.

for years after that I didnt like unions, I though they had outlived their purpose, but now the way some companies are expecting employees to do the work

of 2 or more people, at the lowest wages I have seen in my lifetime, I think maybe Unions could be good after all :)

Not sure about other companies. I pay my guys very fair wages and benefits. I expect them to do the job I am paying them for. It's impossible for one person to do the actual work of 2 or more people in the same amount of time. Unless the 2 or more people are not pulling their weight.

Your post reminded me of a former employee who just left my employ for a $2.00 hike in pay. (not saying your like this guy) He had the ability to take his Journeyman test for 6 months. Once he passed, he would receive a $3.00 raise from me. He never took the test. His reason for leaving was, "He didn't make enough money last year, and didn't get enough over time." He was with me for over 3 years, and a valued hard working employee. But he could not legally be a lead man on his own truck as an apprentice. He is now driving over 50 miles each way for his new job. Versus the 18 miles each way working for me. Now lets add the 35 days he missed work last year. Yes 35 days. Now add in the fact his co workers had to pick up his slack. Which made each job take longer, and me cost more. To summarize, missing 7 weeks of work unpaid, plus his 2 weeks of paid vacation. Left us 1 man short for 2 1/2 months.

His $16.00 extra a day is lost on fuel. Not to mention the extra 1 1/2 hour drive coming out of his personal time. If someone quits working for me to go to a competitor. They will never be re hired by me.

I expect my employees to treat my business as it were their own. The more they put into it, the more they get in return.

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I did an apprenticeship at a union shop, That was the only thing good about being in the Union, free school, and a $1 raising after passing every stage.

for years after that I didnt like unions, I though they had outlived their purpose, but now the way some companies are expecting employees to do the work

of 2 or more people, at the lowest wages I have seen in my lifetime, I think maybe Unions could be good after all :)

Not sure about other companies. I pay my guys very fair wages and benefits. I expect them to do the job I am paying them for. It's impossible for one person to do the actual work of 2 or more people in the same amount of time. Unless the 2 or more people are not pulling their weight.

Your post reminded me of a former employee who just left my employ for a $2.00 hike in pay. (not saying your like this guy) He had the ability to take his Journeyman test for 6 months. Once he passed, he would receive a $3.00 raise from me. He never took the test. His reason for leaving was, "He didn't make enough money last year, and didn't get enough over time." He was with me for over 3 years, and a valued hard working employee. But he could not legally be a lead man on his own truck as an apprentice. He is now driving over 50 miles each way for his new job. Versus the 18 miles each way working for me. Now lets add the 35 days he missed work last year. Yes 35 days. Now add in the fact his co workers had to pick up his slack. Which made each job take longer, and me cost more. To summarize, missing 7 weeks of work unpaid, plus his 2 weeks of paid vacation. Left us 1 man short for 2 1/2 months.

His $16.00 extra a day is lost on fuel. Not to mention the extra 1 1/2 hour drive coming out of his personal time. If someone quits working for me to go to a competitor. They will never be re hired by me.

I expect my employees to treat my business as it were their own. The more they put into it, the more they get in return.

We operate the same way. There must be some psychology behind people quitting after ~4 years. So many have and it always seems that it becomes our fault that they choose not do pull their weight. We will pay anyone more money if they put in the effort. Seems the better we treat someone and the more money we pay, the bigger the burr up their rears. We took all of our employees (and spouses) to Mexico one year - to an all-inclusive resort. After we all got back, each one started slacking. I would have guessed it would have been motivation. That was in November and two got a $2K bonus at Christmas. They were both gone within six months and now are working for less and most likely not being given bonuese like that nor vacations. We have a happy environment - very laid back. Never do we say no to a vacation request. Heck, we rarely say no to any requests. Anyone have a clue why this happens?

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I've never understood why the better you treat an employee, the more they expect, the more you do for them the more they want. Granted not all employees are this way, but a fair number are. I took my entire staff and their significant other on an all expenses paid 7 day cruise in 2011. One of my employee's complained that he would have rather had the money. Wish I would have known that, he could have stayed at home. This was a bonus, not something I had to do. Just really pissed me off. I'm giving it to you, what the hell are you complaining about. After we got back the slacking off started. Guess he figured that if I could afford to take everyone on a cruise that he should get more money. If I've learned one thing after 15 years in business it is this, I hire based on an attitude & work ethic only. I can teach the skills, but I can't change attitude or work ethic.

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I've never understood why the better you treat an employee, the more they expect, the more you do for them the more they want. Granted not all employees are this way, but a fair number are. I took my entire staff and their significant other on an all expenses paid 7 day cruise in 2011. One of my employee's complained that he would have rather had the money. Wish I would have known that, he could have stayed at home. This was a bonus, not something I had to do. Just really pissed me off. I'm giving it to you, what the hell are you complaining about. After we got back the slacking off started. Guess he figured that if I could afford to take everyone on a cruise that he should get more money. If I've learned one thing after 15 years in business it is this, I hire based on an attitude & work ethic only. I can teach the skills, but I can't change attitude or work ethic.

I understand exactly what you're saying. The nicer you are the more taken advantage of you will get. Having employees at a neon shop is a little different because you stand and often talk to your employees all day long. I would never give too much personal information because you may say something that will anger someone. Most purchases you make would be best kept to yourself because if you bought something that your employees may not have enough money for they'll be pissed. It's a shame because they don't ever take into their calculating all the stress and things you have to do as an owner. They just figure, we all just make neon all day, why should he make any more than anyone else? Most of the people I had were pretty good but there are always a few that watch everything you do and try to examine how you live. And if they feel you are doing too well, they'll expect something. And if you don't give it, they'll probably slow their production way down, or take more bathroom breaks. I had one guy that would take 4 fifteen minute bathroom breaks at the exact same time everyday because he felt we should have taken more breaks. At the same time I was giving him an hour lunch everyday and paying him for half of the hour. I guess sometimes you just have to be a prick to some people.

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That's why I always paid my tube benders by the piece . It's self motivating and works well provided you have experienced tube benders that can produce quality along with the quantity.

Of course it's tough for me to generate enough business to keep a tube bender working everyday right now.

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I've never understood why the better you treat an employee, the more they expect, the more you do for them the more they want. Granted not all employees are this way, but a fair number are. I took my entire staff and their significant other on an all expenses paid 7 day cruise in 2011. One of my employee's complained that he would have rather had the money. Wish I would have known that, he could have stayed at home. This was a bonus, not something I had to do. Just really pissed me off. I'm giving it to you, what the hell are you complaining about. After we got back the slacking off started. Guess he figured that if I could afford to take everyone on a cruise that he should get more money. If I've learned one thing after 15 years in business it is this, I hire based on an attitude & work ethic only. I can teach the skills, but I can't change attitude or work ethic.

Yup, I don't get it. We now just pay people and that's it. We often want to treat them to something - to somehow say thank you for a job well done for a special project, etc., but no more, which is sad to say. Like I said, we arent big and our business is like another 'home' to us, so we want to have 'friends' in our home, if you get what I mean. We like to have a fun environment and like to 'like' people in our home. Unfortunatley, no more and I find that sad.

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Seems way more people than ever feel entitled. Love when guys quit to open their own business becaus we are so dumb and bad owners.

Funny, this is our 33rd year...I think maybe one guy is in his 3rd. The rest? Many have 'landscaping businesses'.

Yuppers, owning a sign business is easy peasy!!!

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Seems way more people than ever feel entitled. Love when guys quit to open their own business becaus we are so dumb and bad owners.

Funny, this is our 33rd year...I think maybe one guy is in his 3rd. The rest? Many have 'landscaping businesses'.

Yuppers, owning a sign business is easy peasy!!!

indeed, as my dad always says about when employees try to go at it on their own "I made it look too easy"

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Think about this!

The entire cabinet of the Australian government is made up of former senior union people.

Always on about the rights of the workers.

Meanwhile those workers' jobs disappear as businesses downsize or close.

It's amazing that our economy is in such good condition.

We'll have a new government later this year but I'm not a fan of that mob either.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, you still end up with a politician.

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