Sign Kills Boy...Injures Others

[vincesigns]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/23/falling-alabama-airport-sign-kills-boy-injures-4/?test=latestnews

Edited November 4, 2013 by Kgirl
Title

[Erik Sine]

Was just text this a lil bit ago by a wholesaler. Very sad!

This looks like the sign that fell over.

[matthewota]

I wonder if the engineering was faulty on that sign.

[HansonSigns]

I saw this tragic story Friday afternoon. One of the bystanders said it looked like the sign was installed with "Liquid Nails". Today the news said the airport removed a similary sign, so I found the photo. It does look like a freestanding sign, but shouldn't it have been secured to the wall? I feel so sorry for the family...

Edited March 25, 2013 by HansonSigns

[imanut]

It would be insane not to secure to the wall. Surely the base is no deeper than the sign - which would already make it top heavy and ready to fall. With that many people running around it. And being electric on top of all that? Taking 6 guys to lay it to ground it definitely had some weight. ------- . What a shame, what a lawsuit coming up.

[Snoochie]

I wonder who the fabricator/installer was on this sign? How about the inspector for the governing body that has jurisdiction?

Surely lawsuits will follow but cannot return this young boy back to his family.

Truly saddens me to see incidents like this.

[imanut]

I wasn't making light of the absolute horror of the little boys loss. From wht I've read, the mother, still in the hospital, doesn't even know of the death of her boy. An absolute tragedy. If they find more of the same sign type not fastened to the wall ----- oh my gosh. As strict as airports are over sign design, etc --- cant imagine how this occurred. Sure hope it wasn't a pm, or company, getting the cheapest install price coming back to haunt them. And haunt them it will...

[alltex]

A tragic, but preventable accident.

This sad situation just points out our responsibilities as a sign professional. This may not be considered a sign, in the scope of this project. Maybe a sign professional was not involved. The bottom line is the installer is going to bear the brunt of the blame. Regardless if this install was followed 100% to specs. The installer would have been aware of this "signs" instability when standing it upright. From the picture and video I've seen. I saw zero mechanical fasteners in the wall. It looks as if the "sign" was pre assembled, as a stand alone unit. Stood upright, the electrical and data feeds were connected. And the sign was pushed into place. I didn't see the liquid nail, maybe it was clear silicone?

As an installer, it is our responsibility to point out a potential dangerous situation. This is no different then coming across an illegal or dangerous electrical issue. By law we must rectify, or terminate the issue.

Edited March 25, 2013 by alltex

[matthewota]

As a designer, I also feel that the installation details should be on the drawing. If they were then the installer did not build to blueprint.

[Signworksinc]

very sad for the family, any job should have qualified installers or at the least a babysitter on site to baby them through the install. the sign company and the installers should be liable for this, engineers do not have hands on experience and I find "book smart" doesn't keep a sign standing for long with some engineers.

[geraldi]

The same day this happened I had an installer from out of town stop by to purchase a power supply. As we were talking he brought up the subject of liability insurance. He was really upset that he had to have such a large liability insurance package. Here's the reason.

[burkeenterprise]

We have done airport work and seen the engineering. Though the airport and construction manager were very restrictive of everything we did I found the engineering lacking. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS belt and suspenders. For the little extra it cost to over kill an install it still beats the heck out of the guilt (never mind liability) of having an innocent hurt or as in this case killed. RIP little one.

[matthewota]

What this job really needed was the archtectural CAD file to show the wall constrction. Then the designer determnes the attachment method. If this information ws not provided to the designer, well garbage in results in garbage out. Designers need proper information to render a proper drawing.

[alltex]

What this job really needed was the archtectural CAD file to show the wall constrction. Then the designer determnes the attachment method. If this information ws not provided to the designer, well garbage in results in garbage out. Designers need proper information to render a proper drawing.

Matt, have you ever seen the prints for an airport job before? They are so detailed, you know what color paint is being used on the base boards. I assure you this job was drawn by licensed professionals. This was not an afterthought "add on". Somewhere someone screwed the pooch. Doubtful it was the "designer".

Designers need proper training. Which only comes from real experience. A designer does not determine the structural integrity of a sign or attachment methods. That is done by a licensed engineer. Designers are paid to draw pictures of signs we can sell, and hopefully fabricate.

My in house "designer" does a nice job drawing signs we can actually build. That took quite a while to train him on sign fabrication basics. I had him spend time in the shop being a grunt. He also has spent time in the field installing signs. He now has a good skill set after 6 years. He understands how frames are welded. How pylon signs are built and installed. How neon and LED is wired.

I would never let him spec out a foundation detail. Or a wall attachment beyond a channel letter set, or a building cabinet. We have those cross sections for attachment already engineered and saved in our system. His job is to get the customers logo or design laid out. Then it's out of his hands. That's when; engineering, fabrication, installation do their jobs.

Not trying to slam you Matt. Just pointing out it takes a lot of trained professionals to complete a successful job. Somewhere in this situation, someone cut out the wrong person. Could have been through cost savings, lack of knowledge, or plain laziness. The courts will have to figure that out.

[imanut]

In fact, airport designers, albeit all designers, are so good that they spec out stuff in their drawings that isn't made yet, absolutely won't work, is a hands down "NO" from the mfg of the product, etc. Still up to the installers to know what should NOT be done.

[matthewota]

alltec:

I agree with everything you said. As a designer, I have seen sign drawings where the designer was not given wall section details. The designer then puts in an ambiguous connection method, showing three or four different ways to do it. As a designer, I am very careful not to assume anything when it comes to desiging and engineering a sign. As a matter of fact, when a sign DOES require engineering, I deliberatly design it weak so the engineer ADDS structure to the design. If I design it strong, engineers tend to rubber stamp the design, which results in a sign design that is overweight and costly in materials.

[alltex]

Matt, you may agree with me. But we're light years apart on this matter.

[kevinbergin]

As a matter of fact, when a sign DOES require engineering, I deliberatly design it weak so the engineer ADDS structure to the design.

I can't believe I just read that on a professional sign board.

There's no magic bullet on this. You can't say "The installer didn't build it to blueprint" or "the designer should have had detailed installation cross sections" because you have no idea or ability to foresee what the installer runs into in the real world, as built scenario. EVERYONE at that sign company will feel some sense of responsibility for this tragedy, not just designers, not just installers, I'm sure the whole company feels as if they killed a small child.

[Snoochie]

I know it doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things and can't reverse this horrible, unnecessary and tragic event, but I wonder who the builder/installer of this electronic message sign board was?

Are there others they put in and where are they at. We don't need any similar incidents at any other airports.

Best

[Erik Sine]

Update

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Stafford-firm-made-airport-sign-that-fell-4427304.php

[HansonSigns]

"When Monumental Contracting was installing the first unit, Fish Construction and Monumental exchanged communications about the units' stability and sought advice from KPS Group, the statement said.

Brasfield & Gorrie received some, but not all, of those communications, according to the statement.

"From the current information we have, it does not appear there was a definitive engineered enhancement reached to address the stability concerns," the statement said."

Just finger pointing, no solving of the issue. Poor engineering plus an unconcerned contractor who installed it.

We had a job recently to install a very tall video board (shipped in, not made by us). It was definately not stable after the complete install, so we removed it completely the same day. Fortunately, the company who shipped it paid us for the extra work and even apologized for it. Too bad all this didn't happen with that airport sign.