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Erik Sine

Controversy over electric signs splits industry - A NO Brainer!!!

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Spread the wealth?

Leveling the playing field?

Catherine Monson is comical. Catherine Monson doesn't even know her head from a hole in the ground to begin with when it comes to her "quickie, stickie" sign industry let alone the electric sign industry. She thinks it's "Unfair, and what ARE we supposed to do?" Some may remember her cluelessness from our review of here episode of "Undercover Boss"
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5597-undercover-boss-fastsigns/

Maybe we can stick her on a lift again but this time let her play around with some 800ma lamp connectors or a 15,000 volt tranny.

What are 1,500 sign shops supposed to do if they don't have a master electrician in staff? Simple. Don't contract anything to do with electric signs. There is nothing hard to understand that in order to subcontract, you need to be a contractor. What's next, Home Depot to have a sign isle coming soon, shop for a sign and they sub too?

maybe we should be able to install a sign and sub out the water heater work too?

Good for Leona! Fight the ignorance of the elected officials.

Here's a better question, what's the incentive to go out and get my master electricians license if all I have to do is hire one and slide the liability and responsibility on them? Why go through the proper channels of getting a license and understanding a trade an safety if all you have to do is seek one out to a job you think MIGHT be safe.

Where is the International Sign Association on this? I wanna see them bring the rain on this one. Hopefully they'll correct Mrs Monson right after they've been congratulating here for her tv wash up.

Illegally licensed Sign A Rama thread
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4491-illegal-unlicensed-signarama/




Controversy over electric signs splits industry

By Laylan Copelin
American-Statesman Staff

Since last year, state authorities have conducted sting operations to enforce a new, literal interpretation of a 2005 law that bars sign companies from selling electric signs unless they are owned by master electricians or employ one.

Luis Escobar, who has owned his FASTSIGNS franchise in South Austin for 15 years, has stopped selling electric signs because he wants to subcontract the installation to a master election a violation of state law.

The dispute over employing versus subcontracting master electricians has split the sign industry in Texas and spilled over at the Capitol.

The Texas Sign Association, dominated by master sign electricians, favors the tougher regulation while FASTSIGNS, which has 58 stores statewide, is supporting legislation to allow subcontracting again.

Each side accuses the other of trying to get an advantage on the competition.

They have essentially created a monopoly of sorts, Catherine Monson, CEO of FASTSIGNS Inc., said of the Texas Sign Association.

Although electric signs only account for 5 percent of FASTSIGNS revenue, Monson SAID customers are looking for the lowest price and the greatest convenience as they shop for vinyl banners, building or yard signs and electric signs.

The customer doesnt want to go to one supplier for one type of sign and another for an electric sign, she said.

Thats particularly true for corporations who can buy their signs from out-of-state firms, through the Internet, Monson argued.

Leona Stabler, executive director of the Texas Sign Association, said FASTSIGNS is trying to escape regulation altogether.

If Texas creates a law, it should be able to enforce it, Stabler said. If the exemption (for subcontracting) passes, no one needs a license or worry about public safety.

Monson called that disingenuous, saying FASTSIGNS always subcontracted with master electricians, and that the law already allows 23 exemptions from the need to put a master electrician on staff, including pool contractors who subcontract electrical work.

Stabler suggested that FASTSIGNS hire master electricians as part-time employees a solution that Monson said is impractical.

She said there are 1,500 sign companies in Texas: How are you going to find 1,500 part-time master electricians?

Both agree there is a problem with rogue sign companies installing electric signs without using a master electrician.

Bill Kuntz, executive director of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulations, blamed a quirk in the wording of the 2005 law for the controversy.

But he also cited a recent fire at a North Austin restaurant as the reason for requiring master sign electricians. Kuntz said the agency is still investigating whether the fire was caused by improper installation.

Weve had some cases where people were installing signs without master electricians, Kuntz said.

To enforce the law, state regulators pose as customers to see whether companies are complying.

But does it really matter whether the installer is on staff or a subcontractor as long as the installer is a master electrician?

State Rep. Bill Callegari, R-Katy, doesnt think so.

This interpretation is not what we intended, Callegari said of the 2005 law. It guts the concept of subcontracting.

Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, has filed the same legislation allowing subcontracting. Her bill, SB 803, is scheduled for a hearing in the Senate Business and Commerce Committee on Tuesday.

Without a change in the law, Monson said, Were all out of the electric sign business.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Actually, although we have a couple of times subcontracted with an electrical company to provide one sign that was part of a much larger contract made up of the type of signs we do -- small architectural signs (wayfinding, braille, etc.) we would prefer not to do that. The really problem is that architects and owners write specs insisting that one sign company provide all the signs. They don't realize that they would actually save money by using different contractors for the different types of signs. Most electrical companies or companies that do large pylon type monuments don't want to bother with the tiny details we deal with for ADA signs. Consequently, they will take jobs and then just order all the ADA signs from someone -- often getting a poor product that is not even legally compliant. And then there is the opposite -- a non-electrical company like ours forced against our will to purchase and subcontract out the installation of an electrical sign. We really get upset at the requirement to provide large digital signs. We have been badly burned by these. But when we have to buy out a sign and installation, and have to be the banker and also take all the responsibility, we have to add on costs. Or, if the electrical company has to provide the ADA signs, they have to add on to the price. The customer actually loses, both in price and in quality.

Now, we are running into bids where they are insisting that one company do all the division 10 specialties! In order words, you provide the toilet partitions, the whiteboards for classrooms, and the flagpoles! What is happening is that you have to sub out most of the contract, since you can't obviously do all that yourself. And again, both price and quality suffer.

All this is because the contractors and architects don't want to deal with so many people, so they force subs to become "tiered" and fob off the responsibility on them. It's a bad move for everyone, I think.

Sharon Toji

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Last Thursday I rolled up on an install taking place a few blocks from my home. (and next to my favorite beer establishment). I noticed a small bucket truck with some crazy license numbers on it. They were in the process of installing a raceway with channel letters on it. The crazy license numbers were close to HVAC contractor's State license numbers. But didn't come up on the TX dept of licensing web site. Their company name didn't come up either. So I pulled up, took a few pics. Got out of my truck, and asked the tech in the basket, what was their License number. At that time another worker came up to me. I asked him flat out for his license number so I could verify it on the website. He told me that's the number his "master" gave him. I then asked to see someones Journeymen card. The second guy said he left it at the shop. I explained to him he had to have it on his person when doing electrical work. He then told me, he didn't have one. Neither one of them even had an apprentice license. I told them I was turning them into the TX Dept of Licensing.

I immediately called the TXDLR hotline. After a 10 min wait. Talked to an agent. They looked up their business info, and validated my same findings on their website. No license, and the number came back to an HVAC company. The agent then asked me if I would file a formal complaint. Which I agreed to, and did the following morning.

So we have a sign company using a HVAC companies license. Un licensed installers, installing an electrical sign. And the only way the state of Texas has to bust these shops. Is someone familiar with the law to report the un licensed activity. This goes on daily in every major city in TX. I'm not a "narc", and don't want to be. I also understand I can't sell every sign in my area. But the investment I have made to be a licensed shop, paying the high salaries for licensed people, and carrying the insurance and certifications which allow my business to operate legally. Is a huge expense my non licensed competitors don't have.

If this law is over turned. It's just going to add to the number of un licensed activity. Anyone who can print a business card up. Is going to be an electrical sign contractor. Granted, they'll have to find a master to pull the permits. And then, hopefully find a sign company which is licensed to do the install. Then find a wholesaler who builds a quality sign. I doubt a subcontractor could subcontract a job out "legally" , and beat my pricing. Too many hands in the cookie jar.

I have no problem with legitimate competition. Bring it on! I win some, and lose some daily.

Few questions for the Fastsigns inTexas. Who's going to warranty your product? Who's going to determine your customer got what they paid for? Do you even know what your selling?

BTW, the guys completed the install. They shrugged me off.

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Altex I totally agree...but I had a guy come up to me and ask me for my license in a county that has it's own license requirements (which I have) so I ask him for his inspectors license. He was not one he worked for an electrician he was pushy and rude so I told him to get lost. I agree there needs to be someone to police the shops but I don't want every dipshit around coming up to me asking to see my license while I am working.


Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Chubby, I never would have bothered asking those guys for their license. If their vehicle didn't have a make believe license number on it. I had made my mind up, in turning them in. So decided to go for broke and ask them for their personal license info.

I left this part out of the story. The city, the work was being performed in. Is the same city my business, and house are in. I called the city Sign inspector up, after talking with the State. And asked him how they could get a permit, and install without a State issued license? He flat out told me they couldn't, but could have a master pull a permit for them. Which is technically wrong, the master holder must have a TX Sign Contractor business license(TSCL), or have a TX Electrical Contractor business license (TECL). Just having a master license does not qualify, to pull permits without the State issued business license. The master doesn't carry insurance...He carries the license. We went round and round for a little while. And he actually saw my point. Funny thing is, they require a TSCL, or TECL license to pull an electrical sign permit. He didn't even know if a permit was pulled for that sign. At this point I was pulling my hair out, when my cell phone died. He called me back on Friday, and said they are going to follow up on this company and job. And take the appropriate action(s)....

Here's some other License B.S... This came up in another local city, where a master (who I do not know) put my TSCL on a permit, last month. The chief Electrical inspector caught it. Called me up and started to go off on me. I told him I had zero knowledge of the job, or the "master" in question. I flat out told the inspector to call the State up, and file a complaint. He told me he would get to the bottom of it. Didn't hear back from him for almost a week. So I called him back. He said they worked it out. Then he told me I can't use my license for another person....I was so pissed, I had to re iterate our previous conversation again. I asked him why would I help out my competition? What was in it for me? I really think the inspector believes I let someone I don't know, pull a permit with my license. I told the inspector my license number needed to be removed from the permit. Then he told me, he already did it.

Edited by alltex

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I totally agree with you I just wish the inspectors would do their job and check this stuff out. I have called the inspector to check if a company has pulled a permit many times and assumed if they had a permit the they had the proper license..........


Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Most instances the sign inspector can't even spell his job title correctly, let alone know/understand the rules. Which is probably why I can't get a job as a sign inspector - I know how to spell it. Inspectors in Illinois get to the point of writing down a UL #, and walk away. Code compliant, understanding? I don't think so.

gn

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Hiring Fastsigns to "build" and "install" an electric sign is like hiring the clerk at Starbucks to buy you a new car. You'll be broken down in the desert waiting for a tow truck while you enjoy a great cup of joe.

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Not necessarily true. There are Fast Signs and Sign a Ramas whose operations would put to shame MANY on this list, and I'm speaking of electric signs.

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Not necessarily true. There are Fast Signs and Sign a Ramas whose operations would put to shame MANY on this list, and I'm speaking of electric signs.

That might be a stretch


Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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Hiring Fastsigns to "build" and "install" an electric sign is like hiring the clerk at Starbucks to buy you a new car. You'll be broken down in the desert waiting for a tow truck while you enjoy a great cup of joe.

Doesn't sound too bad to me........

Sitting in the desert, gazing at the stars while enjoying a good cup of Joe.

Best


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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In my sunny state of California we have strict laws as well. I don't think Texas is much different as well as a few other western regional states like AZ & NV.

The large purpose of having a contractors license is also about providing a "Consumer Protection", or protection for the sign user. As someone mentioned, who's going to warrant the sign? Fast Signs, or the contractor? Will that Electrical Contractor follow through with what he said he was going to do? What if the Contractor and the 3rd Party (Fast Signs) have a falling out? All Fast Signs has to do in my state is Shug their shoulders and walk away scott free in the courts. The Courts won't even make them pay restitution in most cases after their caught AFTER something terrible went down.

The Fast Signs shop will face a couple thousand dollar fine, face jail. The Contractor who was subcontracted by an illegal contractor (Fast Sign) IF pleading ignorance to the law will face a small fine, have their hands slapped by the Contractors Board and walk away. All the time, the sign user is left hanging after paying a large deposit, ot after paying in full if the sign has issues, or is illegal. Their assed out with out ANY "consumer protection" They can't even go after a contractors bond because they entered into the contract with unlicensed contractor. Fast Signs does not have a bond, nor insured as a contractor. The Chain or legality and responsibility is broken. The Sign user, or end user has nor legal rights in California, and it might be similar in other states.

Fast Signs can just simply shrug their shoulders and say, "It's out of control that we can't fix or maintain a situation because the contractor is non-compliant with the contract" The Contractor can walk away for any number of reasons, not being paid on time, wrong sign specification mix-up where a Fast Signs will look to throw financial responsibility on the Primary Contractor.

It's a huge mess involving a 3rd party, or middle man (Fast Signs).

When the Sign User has direct contact and direct legal dealings with a contractor there is more protections for them should the project go ill. There is a bond and insurance, there is the possibility that the Contractors Board will step in and revoke a license to do further work. These are remedies that a sign user has.

There is just a huge portions or liability and responsibility that's absent when a third party is involved, and trying to have the courts settle the he said, she said only makes the matters more muddier and all the while, the sign user is screwed and forced to wait.

This Catherine Monson, is why the Contractors Board wrote the law the way they did. The Senator is clueless to this, all they see is a large franchise somehow "disenfranchised" and somehow "discriminated" against because these shops along with Catherine Monson think their "Entitled" to what those who worked so hard to have.

Yes, their are some awesome HUGE electric signs produced by some Fast Signs and Sign A Rama's, but 99% of those cases....they were custom electric sign shops first that entered into a franchise.

Now I'm curious to what the International Sign Association's position on this is?


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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As the law is written now you can't even install a new sign face in an existing cabinet. So what happens to all the consumers of who doesn't have an Electrical sign contractor in there area.. They can't buy one from a sign shop but the can buy one from a Electrical Contractor (An Electrical Contractor can do anything a sign contractor can plus much more) when they realize this, are they all going to start selling signs because we can't?

If you are installing a sign and you hire a welder he must at least have an apprentice electrician card, That's what they will ask for not his welding certificate

This makes about as much sense as requiring a car salesman to be a certified ASE mechanic before he is allowed to sell cars. If I buy an UL approved sign cabinet install it and have an electrical contractor wire it what is the problem. I have insurance too cover an liability problems that might arise plus I live in a small town and bad service will usually take care of itself.

I can also say that the Texas Sign Association does not speak for me or the majority of the sign shops in Texas. The will like always will come down to who has the most money and influence to throw around Austin. No matter what license you require there will always be somebody breaking them to make a quick dollar. We need to clean up the licensing law we have now and put more effort in enforcing them. As of about a year ago Texas only had 2 electrical inspectors for the whole state for all electrical laws not just signs. The county that I live in has fined 1 that shows up on the record for a least the last 5 years. Complaints are filed on a regular basis against electrical contractors and unlicensed electricians but they are never followed through with by the state because they don't have the resources.

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As this pertains to my state.

If a person decides one day to go to a Fast Signs Seminar and they decide to spend the money to become a sign shop they have no business, nor does the Franchise have any business to mislead the new franchisee that they can do installations. It doesn't matter if they purchase a Listed Product or not, whether they sub a contractor or not. That's Illegal!

If a vinyl sign shop wants to become a licensed contractor they have a choice to make. They can hire a qualified individual who can obtain a license for the company, or the owner must be the qualifier. The qualifier needs to have the required time in, last I checked 8 years, four as an apprentice, 4 as a journeymen. I think the Non-Illuminated license is easier to obtain.

In the state of CA, I think it's a contract of $500 (use to be $350) where a person who makes "improvements, or alterations" to any fixture or building, or property needs a contractors license.

So it's fine for someone to be a Fast Signs type shop, and come into the industry as a total rookie here in CA with no experience at all, & NOT have a contractors license. But that doesn't give THEM the right to pose as a licensed contractor and start doing installations. So what the unlicensed Fast Sign can legally do it is.... sell the sign user a sign (Electric or Non-electric), and let the sign user find a licensed sign installer.

Example. It wasn't that long ago I installed a channel letter sign for a Farmers Ins. They bought the sign from a Fast Signs, who they purchased from a wholesaler. The Farmers agent contacted me and had the sign shipped to me to install. No middle man, and legal!

if the people of a state want to overturn regulation, then power to the people! Until then, the law is the law. I'm not a big regulation guy, I'm for smaller governments, BUT I am for small moderate regulation and I believe this to be just that.

The Electrical Sign Industry is a trade, not a commodity how Fast Signs and Marketers like Catherine Monson and other franchise's treat or want to make it, all so THEY can sell a license rights, expect royalty's and sell equipment, and resell equipment, and resell equipment from their unsuccessful folded franchisee's and back again to whoever comes through their door wavering to either open up a Fast Frame Shop....or Fast Signs Shop.

Again, I'm VERY interested to see who's take ISA will have on this. This can explode to be very big. Are they for protecting a trade, or more interested in selling memberships? BUT, not only would this affect the small sign licensing division, this would open doors for ANYONE to become a subcontractor for any trade, signs or a freeway bridge.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Not necessarily true. There are Fast Signs and Sign a Ramas whose operations would put to shame MANY on this list, and I'm speaking of electric signs.

That might be a stretch

No, he's right

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Not necessarily true. There are Fast Signs and Sign a Ramas whose operations would put to shame MANY on this list, and I'm speaking of electric signs.

That might be a stretch

No, he's right

I'm guessing you might be a little biased on this.


Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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not really. I dont consider myself a quicky sign shop like the other fastsigns. Sure I do plenty of that stuff but also have 3 trucks running and do everything anyone else here does. And as far as what gary said its not me being biased its true. Dont think for a minute that there arent FS or SA doing 5 times the volume of a small shop like you or others.

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Those guys "Keith and Kevin" with the Fastsigns in PA. Have an outstanding business. They aren't the standard "Fastsigns". They fabricate and install just like most of us do. I've partnered with them on many jobs. They have top notch products, they trust me to fabricate signs too cost prohibitive to ship, and know what it takes to install.

I don't have to explain jobs, like most of us do to national PM's. They get it, and do it. And they're great to work with!

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I don't think the Statesman article is accurate. I do not think there is a law that prohibits the "sale" of electric signs without a sign contractors license in Texas. The "sting" they are talking about are against folks offering installation services without a license. There is a recent law that prohibits offering any installation or electrical work along with the sign-sale without an electrical sign contractors license.

I usually watch all the TDLR Electrical Board meetings (at least the part that pertains to signs) and I have heard nothing about requiring an electric sign contractors license simply to sell an electric sign. The recent changes seemed mainly directed at sign brokers and sign manufacturers (manufacturers, of which have a very specific and limited exemption) who were offering installations along with the sign sales. It was clarified that a manufacturer cannot offer installation or electrical work without a ESCL.

This would be like requiring an appliance dealer to have an appliance installers license to sell a dishwasher?

If someone knows differently, please post the Texas Occupations Code rule or provide a citation so I can look it up.

Edited by megavolt512
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This is off the TXDLR web site. There's some other info there too. Just don't have the time to look it up.

73.52. Electrical Sign Contractors’ Responsibilities.(Effective January 1, 2010, 34 TexReg 9433; amended effective March 15, 2012, 37 TexReg 1703)

(a) An Electrical Sign Contractor shall:

(1) notify the department when a new master electrician or master sign electrician of record is assigned to the contractor and notify the department within thirty business days from the date that the master electrician's employment with the contractor ended;

(2) maintain employee records and records of all work performed on its behalf for a period of four years after completion of the work, and shall make those records available to the department at the contractor’s place of business during normal business hours for inspection and copying. If the contractor’s principal place of business is located out of the state of Texas, the department may require the contractor to make records available to the department at its offices in Austin, Texas or another location agreed upon by the department and the contractor.

(b) A person or contractor that performs or offers to perform electrical sign contracting shall:

(1) provide safe and proper installation and service, and assure the electro-mechanical integrity of all work and installations are to code;

(2) not misrepresent the need for services, services to be provided, or services that have been provided;

(3) not make a fraudulent promise or false statement to influence, persuade, or induce an individual or an entity to contract for services; and

(4) ensure that all of an electrical sign contractor’s non-exempt electrical work shall be performed by licensed individuals.

© The design of an electrical sign shall only be done by a licensed master electrician, master sign electrician, or design professional as authorized by statute. The design shall not be subcontracted to an unlicensed person, firm or corporation.

(d) A licensed electrical sign contractor shall display its name and license number on both sides of each vehicle owned or operated by the business and used in the conduct of electrical work. Lettering shall be of a contrasting color and at least two inches in height. The license number shall be preceded by the letters “TSCL”.

(e) All advertising by electrical sign contracting companies designed to solicit electrical business shall include the electrical sign contractor’s name and license number. This includes business cards. The following advertising does not require the license number:

(1) nationally placed television advertising, in which a statement indicating that license numbers are available upon request is used in lieu of the electrical sign contractor license number;

(2) telephone book listings that contain only the name, address, and telephone number;

(3) manufacturers’ and distributor’s telephone book trade ads identifying an electrical contractor;

(4) telephone solicitations, provided the solicitor states that the contractor complies with licensing requirements of the state. The electrical sign contractor’s number must be provided upon request;

(5) promotional items of nominal value such as ball caps, tee shirts, and other gifts; and

(6) signs located on the contractor’s permanent business location.

(f) The electrical sign contractor’s name, address, phone number, and license number shall appear on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts from the contractor. The following information: “Regulated by The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, P. O. Box 12157, Austin, Texas 78711, 1-800-803-9202, 512-463-6599; website: www.license.state.tx.us/complaints” shall be listed on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts.

(g) A licensed electrical sign contractor and its designated master electrician or master sign electrician of record is responsible for supervision of all licensees performing work on behalf of the contractor to assure compliance with applicable statutes and rules and in particular, standards of conduct set out in this chapter.

(h) An electrical sign contractor shall not use a license that is not assigned to that contractor.

Edited by alltex

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This is off the TXDLR web site. There's some other info there too. Just don't have the time to look it up.

73.52. Electrical Sign Contractors’ Responsibilities.(Effective January 1, 2010, 34 TexReg 9433; amended effective March 15, 2012, 37 TexReg 1703)

(a) An Electrical Sign Contractor shall:

Have read all of sec 1305. I see nothing requiring a license just to sell a sign. Even in the 2005 amendments. I don't see how Fastsigns selling an electrical sign violates sec 1305 unless they are offering electrical work or installation along with it.

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I was told (in person) by Jerry Daniel of the Electrical compliance of the State of Texas. That I could not sell, offer to sell, or advertise that I sell electrical signs without a Electrical Sign Contractors license or a electrical contractors license..

Also was told that it is against code to install replacement pan or flat faces in a sign without the contractors license. The reason for this was that when you removed the face it was like opening and electrical enclosure and you were be exposed to the electrical components..

Was also told on the phone that I could be fined for removing and old channel letter sign from a building that no electricity (no meter) for over a year.

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If this is only about about reversing a law that says it's a violation to sell electric sign ONLY with no installation, then this was a dumb law to begin with. But if it's tied to another regarding installation then maybe there was a language law. But a listed sign by a lab like U.L. or MET is still a listed sign and even they don't have requirements like that to become certified.

I do have the feeling though that this is more about whole, or the installation part. I don't know how many shops will be successful at just selling a sign unless their a wholesale shop or out of state for installation. Even then, if you plan on executing a contract and ship out a sign for installation like say in CA, there is still a contractors law violation. You still have to be a contractor and carry a license in order to "subcontract".

This is a awesome remedy for all those subs in CA that haven't been paid by Nationals that don't have licenses in CA, they can get in serious trouble.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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If simply the sale of an electric sign requires an Electrical Sign Contractor's License, I hope Home Depot has one:

http://thd.co/10MQ2Rc

And WW Grainger:

http://bit.ly/10MQeQg

And Sears:

http://bit.ly/10MQoap

And of course all the wholesaler's shipping channel letters into Texas...

This would likely also apply to all those companies that broker "sign service".

Edited by megavolt512

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How funny.

http://www.fastsigns.com/115-tyler-tx/Electrical

Guess this is also a wrench thrown in the works with 4 days prior to this article about Samsung signing a deal with FastSigns and N.Glantz.

it's kind of expensive to buy an electric sign from one company, then have another company quote them out the install instead of a single company can can do all in one. In Looking at the Fastsigns we have here in California only 8 are licensed contractors. Out of the 8 contractors, one 3 can perform electrical sign work while the remainder are only for non-illuminated installs. 1 of the 3 actually has a B General.

The 1,000 Oaks CA has this page

http://www.fastsigns.com/Project-Services/Installation

Which says "Our expert installers" Very confusing and possibly misleading.

Sign A Rama has 7 contractors in Cali, 5 of which are C45 (Electric Signs), 2 non-illuminated. One of those finally got a license after being shown on a Youtube video performing an illegal install :P


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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