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I'm all for making changes in your life, whether it's personal or perhaps a career change.

But sometimes you have to wonder who it is that runs your industry, or the people who can influence changes in your industry. I've always had questions that for these trade groups that never got answered and always wondered the "why's" behind some important decisions or omissions to act that took place, and continue too.

I've run into people who one day sold lift gates for commercial trucks then the next day their LED salesmen for a LED manufacturer telling me that LEDs are the best thing on the market in comparison to other light sources AND in all phases. When you ask a question in comparison to traditional light sources they haven't a clue but they may know more about their like competitors, or at least have those selling points that were handwritten down for them memorized. Maybe it's me, but I would feel a little better talking with a salesmen from someone with our or my background in "Signs".

Sometimes the butt of the joke about shoddy sign installation is that one day the vinyl sticky guy became the electric sign installer that day for their company and we get new pics submitted into our Hall of Shame. But, at least that sticky guy has some sort of relationship to what he was doing and maybe he was able to make a better effort than say the lift-gate salesman would have been able to because at least the sticky guy who has seen signs before could at least better guess what needs to be done and make a better "best guess" effort.

Ever look at the make or resume background on individuals of our Trade Associations and wonder "why" they are there and serve our industry? I'm not talking about the volunteer base made up of some of our finest men and women presently in the sign industry. I'm talking about the "core" employed group who pay themselves from the non-profit. Sometimes we see some wacky decisions being made and anyone in the sign industry asks "why?", why did they do that, or why did they stand and do nothing? Some of these longtime rhino's have backgrounds similar in comparison I just made to the lift-gate guy turned LED salesmen.

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We just had the International Sign Association gobble up all the other little sign associations like Pac-Man and I'm still NOT clearly understanding the "Why". I know what the selling point was. This was a decision made and pushed by the "core" association employed group rather than the volunteer base. The base still is not clear to this day but they went along with it anyway and a vote was pushed very fast to get this past before anyone could fully understand what they were voting on, sort of like healthcare (don't worry...we'll figure it out later). I mean, they hired an outside consultant to tell them how to push this along. I know that pic below that was made for a past thread involving the globalization or gobble up of our local associations is a bit extreme, or is it? If nothing else you could say it's metaphoric, maybe even call it a political cartoon that has a little humor to it. But both terms have an ounce of truth to it, otherwise it wouldn't fit.

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Do some of these Lift-Gate people from somewhere else have our industries intentions best at heart? Do they hold the same values and "traditions" of our industry at heart too? How can they, do they have that ability to turn that emotion on like a switch? Can you be a lift-gate salesmen one day and be in the sign industry and "know" our past traditions to shape a better tomorrow?

Sometimes some very bad decisions get made which can effect us all.

I don't know if a decision to act or omission made is there to kill a part of our trade IS made out of ignorance because their more or less acting on limited information which they deem legit (because it was lift-gate sales one day and signs the next), it can even be said that they become a puppet to the puppet master who is a large light source mfg who's intent is to sell their products over all others and thus get the trade association to help push legislation or stand down from legislation so that it will benefit their cause or business in the form of asking the government to pic a winner, or leave fewer option for the consumer.

I get an accountant can be plugged into a sign industry position from a lift-gate industry, as well as a few other areas. But what about the big decisions? The ones that affect what you and I sell or produce? Even though some would like to commoditize what we do, and bastardize our industry by inserting, selling, plugging in whatever can make a quick buck. I think the hiring process for these positions need to be left for those within our industry, for those who have worked in the sticky department, to the guy who installs a pylon or wall sign, and everything in-between. Otherwise, why work for an association for a trade you have no experience in or find akin too? Aren't associations left for those who are involved in their own industry, or is it just a job?

I've always been a firm believer that the best sign salesmen or women are the ones who have fabricated a sign and installed a sign. That's my belief, opinion and I'm sticking to it. Bullshitters are a dime a dozen, and we're not used car lot. We fabricate and install the best illuminated branding there is, most of time the sign becomes the hallmark and landmark, it's the face of a business. When they think of a business they don't quickly generate a thought of the retail shelves stocked with goods, or the bellhop or pool, they think of the sign lighting up on the street.

Anyway, you're probably asking why you're even reading this thread, and what the purpose is. Why the hell did I start it? I did because I got wind that Rich Gottwald left the Vice Presidentship of the International Sign Association (Or maybe he's doing two jobs now like so many other concurrent association people) and became the CEO of the Pool and Spa Trade Association . No knock on him personally even though he still could/would not legitimately answer some important questions to some my "why" questions which almost heavily impacted our trades traditions. I just hope that he at least owns a spa in his backyard moving forward to his new position. But the news struck curiosity in me. I did some quick research and discovered he went from a plastic association guy to signs, to now pool and spa's. Some other high ranking association core group members also came from the plastic association group before the International Sign Association. Is this trade group one of the same perhaps?

Again, I'm all for career change and sometimes people are all-stars no matter where they go. Sort of like gifted athletes, it doesn't matter what kind of ball you put in their hands their just naturally gifted so I can't speak in detail. I sincerely wish Mr. Gottwald the best and hope for whoever replaces him is someone who comes from a Electric Sign Background, and not someone who lobbies to the "Green" movement, or someone who has a marketing background from within their present ranks.

I just genuinely want whoever can be the best fit to help our industry. Someone who has a good vision, and remembers our past, and holds our traditions best at heart. Someone who can take into account what the rhino volunteer base has to say, have the knowledge to debate them and make an educated, industry based decision on that. I want someone who's not looking with the intent to stand around and let a bill pass that affects our industry just so they can get the association to turn that new regulation into a program to sell to our industry.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking.....just my open aired thought for this Tuesday

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Eric,

I rarely respond to your posts because it only results in a caustic response. But sometimes.....

I will leave it to the members at ISA to judge whether I have been an effective advocate for the industry. ISA does really good work on behalf of the industry. Efforts like educating city planners on proper signage (600 have attended our sessions so far), sponsoring research on the cause of failures of single pole sign structures, and implementing on-line sign industry education all help to move the industry forward and to break down regulatory barriers. i hope I have played a small role in that.

ISA has an incredible group of members. Over 2,300 companies belong to ISA, and they roll up their sleeves day in and day out, not only to run their own companies, but to get involved in this association (or other associations) and try to make a difference in the industry. I am so proud of them all.

You, Eric, do none of that. You hide behind this blog and bully anyone who so much as utters a word with which you disagree. You may think you are serving a greater cause, but you are not. You could, but not the way you operate today.

I wish the sign industry all the best, and I thank them for the opportunity to serve.

Rich Gottwald

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Your crossing my words.

I'm not saying you haven't done anything for the sign industry I'm just saying I wonder how those who have come from another industry who are suddenly inserted in another can do as good as a job as one who has a long standing history in one. Again, not to reflect what you've personally done but I would like to see who ever replaces you be or have experience in the actual trade. Nothing personal, I don't think you've done a horrible job. The only real complaint Ive had about you is the fact that you could never answer my question about who it was who initiated the International Sign Association's movement to try and get the NEC board to have custom neon and outline lighting listed by a lab such as U.L., I'm happy ISA failed because it would further killed the neon industry. I still find that path of support odd. Not everything the International Sign Association does is magical and rainbows, sometimes it has it's faults. But the question is still unanswered and left open.

I'm not a bully and I don't personally beat ANYONE that disagrees with me up unless they've gotten personal with me. I only back up and support my opinion. If you see that as bullying because it does not fall inline with the ISA "core" vision, then that's on you. I've met you in Orlando and you know I'm no "bully" who hides behind a keyboard with no accessibility. Anyone can meet me in person at anyone of our meets and discuss what they want with me.

Like you, I'll let others judge me based on what this site has offered if it's important to me (which it's not) or if it's important for them. I do what I do and I say what I say because I'm not afraid to do it, I also don't lick my finger to see which way the wind is blowing before making a decision. Most of the time this Industry needs a wake up call and to hear a voice of opposition to the status quo. I'm not one to fall in line and join the ranks and blabber marketing points or cheer lead. I'm just not built that way.

I'm sorry you took this so personal, I know you spent a lot of time and I never said you've done a horrible job. I'm just questioning resumes' (hense "Ever Wonder Why?") and how it all can fit for the best. I'm not attacking you, nor am I putting you out to be the face of every bad ISA decision. I just saw a job change become public and it made me think since you were going from one industry to another and how that can affect our industry as well, and what/who can be a good fit for who replaces you. I do wish you well.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Wow, Rich really read too deep into the posting and apparently got his undergarments (can we say panties on here?) in a knot. I didn't read it as a personal attack but asking questions that any business owner should ask of a trade association that wants to represent sign makers. I don't think it's too much to ask for people holding top association positions to be experienced in the industry before taking on such responsibilities.

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  • Board Patron

I didn't read this topic as an attack either. Most of the time I read from the shadows about the stuff going on in the background in our industry that most probably don't have access too and I don't think you will learn about it from anywhere else other than here on the sign syndicate, unless you know someone. This site is very popular with people we associate ourselves within the sign industry and I've learned a lot being a total newbie here. The sign syndicate it practically a household name. At this point if you don't know this website then you're either in the dark or you've have had your head buried in the sand somewhere.

I still remember this particular topic right around when I first joined.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3580-kudos-sign-syndicate/

I usually copy and paste this link when someone asks me what the sign syndicate is about.

What has Erik done? I think this is one of many links that say it best.

Edited by LiteGirl
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Rich as a parting shot this is a very poor showing. I have belonged to many sign and screenprint associations, rarely do any of those in a true leadership position display such poor use of words. Reflect on who you are as a man and a leader, feel free to come back and explain yourself. You could have taken the high road (and did until you went off the rails with a personal attack) An apology is in order, are you up to it? ( And it really should be a wider apology than to just one, please include all those who know you are capable of better)

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This wasn't an attack, it was a legitimate blog on a legitimate topic! We had a local restaurant owner who folded his restaurant and shortly after was trying to sell us LEDs. My confidence level in him was not very high.

Eric, you made great points. Good job!

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I think that Rich Gottwald mistook Passion and a yearning for a high level of Professionalism in an industry that Erik loves, for a Caustic or Vitriolic attack on him personally. But that was not the case in my opinion. I think Erik was simply lamenting about that which is lacking in the industry that we all want to see vibrant, now and in the years to come.

Is it too much to ask that if you represent the sign industry, you should have a background in the sign industry? I think not.

If you represent a veterans association should you not be a veteran? How about law enforcement or governors association, shouldn't you have a background there as well? I think so.

Today the Lift Gate industry, tomorrow the Tire industry, followed up by the Plastic industry, even further by the Sign industry and ultimately landing in the Spa industry.

Like I have posted Ad Nauseum on this board, the saying goes, "I'm not giving em Hell, I just telling the truth and they think it's Hell".

Keep giving em Hell Erik...........

Best

"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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  • !llumenati

I can tell you from my experience that the industry is NOT interested in "experience" in the industry as a qualification for hiring. Most feel that is is highly over rated.

gn

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This site has saved many peoples lives by helping me put I-crane and Skylift, Sam Marcum out of business.

Many people that don't even know it owe Erik and this site, the sign association of Canada saves me 0.03 cents per liter on gas, woo hoo

Plus my advertising here gets me work from across the US

 

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50 foot 8 ton crane/auger

Skid steer with forks and dirt bucket


www.signworksinc.com

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Signworks Inc.
Toronto, Canada
416-653-7227
1-877-912-7446

 

 

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I could say more I suppose and it would be/come out harsh but it would be reality, it's not that important at this point now because everything is moving forward.

He's out, someone else is coming in, and we won't be doing the interviewing. I just know there is another individual coming in if not already named and chances are it's not someone who has a trade background.

Real short. His response just goes to show how out of touch he is because he's not one of "us" who rolls up our sleeves (as he put it) everyday and deal with the daily day ins and day outs, instead he stands in an ivory tower office in DC. No matter what I do or how I’m viewed, I am both a "servant", and I am a "slave" to this industry.

He was given the opportunity to be a servant (and got paid doing so). He did what he thought was the right thing (which I'm sure was most of the time well spent and made some city hall /code calls...made good decisions did what was expected etc etc etc), he was counseled by a volunteer base made up of sub-committee heads & paid consultants which he thinks is knowledgeable, and most of the most of the time it's individuals who have been in the association for eons who started out with the best intentions to do good.

Some, and I say some, ...some of these some.... have high ranking positions came in place with their original intentions but are now they’re there primarily to feed an ego, a power hunger, and to somehow financially benefit from it, for them or for their friends (financial means or by favors). For the next person who comes in, this is what they have to deal with. There is an inner battle in the ranks of the volunteer base of associations. Most of it is about the freshman class vs. the Rhino's, we all know this its even in government politics. There are some Rhino's who want you to play along to get along, so one day you'll "get yours", but until you play along or if you don't well....you just may not get voted in to key positions. This is why I'm big on term limits, from government to a simple association. This next person who comes in, it would be a benefit for "us" if this person has a long background in the electrical sign industry because the electrical sign industry is the cream of the crop IMO. The real big issues are lights/electricity/EMC’s, whether it's use or where their going. It's going to be about fighting for, or against code/legistlation, most of all PROTECTING our traditions and liberties and preserve our right to prosper. We need that person to have that background to smell out ill intent, have the industry knowledge to compare what they are being told, have the fortitude, and the courage to do what is right no matter which way the wind is blowing.

I don’t think Lift-Gate guy can do that, I don’t think Lift-Gate guy can be our guy. I don’t think Lift-Gate guy can have the same passion as “us”.

Okay, so...not so short after all.

I'm going to be here everyday until I retire, god willing I’ll probably go and leave this world from a 15kv tranny that I love so much. I have no intention in making a career change down the road because I love what I do and it's not about money. Like I said, I'm a servant and a slave to this industry. I want those people in the core sign association to also be a servant and a slave, not just be a brief servant in the form of a job....make some decisions for a period of time, get back pats, and walk away to another field and let "us" deal with the decisions or omissions made from our leadership. I want THAT person to sit in the same pot I am after they step down.

What came out from Rich about me and this site was that continual arrogance, some frustration, misunderstanding, mis-information, and mis-characterization part on him, and some brought on by those around him.

He and MANY others in various association who are used to a certain way, see my opinions (most of the time backed up with fact), and others from this site as a attack instead of what it really is......Constructive criticism, Passion, and a genuine caring for what happens to our industry, and what we tend to lose in the form of freedoms and liberties.

Normally you would take it as such constructive criticism but within certain inner circle and cliques from within, well....we're stepping on toes and hurting feelings and ego's raising awareness to all others within our industry and shedding light on certain false background drops. It's not something that that inner circle wants out or observed for what it is, and they don't want it out that sometimes they make bad calls or support certain views that maybe they shouldn’t be. They want to be perfect with nothing but sunshine with no flaws, ever hear them admit fault?. Instead of taking in what's discussed here with open eyes and ears, within their inner circle we're a threat, and quickly discredited and refaced and guised as "bullies", "trolls" and "them".

Some wonder why I'm at times harsh. I think as the years have gone on I've just become more callus. A real sign professional who cares about this industry who is not just in it for themselves, and who knows truth from fiction and KNOWS what needs to happen and DAMN taking an easy route! Take that damn 15/60 tranny up that 40’ ladder, get weak knees, feel that back pain MOST of all feel what it is to “sweat” and get it done! When you have the same people doing the same damn thing (trade magazines too) and changing seats, playing musical chairs it's wearing. When this site first started I know I was lighter in calling these issues out, I'm at the point now where it's time to blast a few barrels. Some sy I should say it in a "nice" way, I'm done playing "nice" and making "nice" with certain individuals where we stand to lose. I don't have that energy anymore, nor the patience, time is running out and we’re loosing more and more freedoms everyday. These are intelligent individuals that know what they should be doing. If they don't know, or if they don’t have the Cojones then they need to step down and let someone else pull the reigns, and pull the cart.

I get that cop out reaction/reply by them every time a controversial thread is here on the SS that I should shut my hole and I have NO idea what I’m talking about, I’m told to join up in an association and make a difference...like them. Really?

The Rhino base is going to listen to me and my opinion which probably greatly contradicts their old guard ways of doing things......they think I can dance? I'm not a good dancer, I SUCK by the way.

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If they want me to be apart of them, then they can HIRE me to a high position. That way as soon as I go on board I can FIRE them all, clean house, put my own council in place so that we can start a re-hiring campaign/process with an intense interview process (get back some of the previous members) for the core and volunteer base to separate the good seeds from the bad and start anew. Then, after that....I would resign! Come back here so (be that tool) that if ever the cycle ever came back again, the one that needs replacing....hopefully they didn't loose my business card and this process could start all over again. I don’t want to make buddies over there, it’s only about industry first, not relationship building, that can come in 7th or 10th....for me anyway, I got enough friends and way too many on FaceBook.

Alright dry humor aside.

I can make a better difference (serving) holding a platform outside here for others to express that “alternative” opinion and ideas than ever joining up with a group. We raise awareness here and were not bound by any kind of friendship or influence, so therefore we can do it better here and give those within a group tools to use. But some will continue to use a screwdriver where their supposed to be using a hammer and we will all watch them as they keep as they continually kick that hammer away. I can't help them, but because I’ll continue to hand them that hammer that they keep kicking back at me doesn’t mean I’m attacking them. I may have a sarcastic look on my face and say “Hey Dummy, use this”, that’s just me, I’m worn, I’m sarcastic, and I have a dry sense of humor....BUT, I’m genuinely going to try and help because I’m in the pot and I want it to be flavorful.

There are some awesome men and women who serve in associations at the volunteer and core level, that is a fact, I’ve met them. I hope those people, the foot solders, the ones with big hearts don’t think I’m attacking or blasting them when I mutter the word “ Sign Associations” because I’m just merely discussing individuals within their cause, surely they know what I’m talking about being there long enough. If you don’t, know now.

I don’t think I’ve EVER turned anyone down for help, even those who I’ve disagreed with in the past, sometimes those were BIG disagreements.

Well, my reply was longer than I thought.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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