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MET Laboratories UL48 Program???


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Is this MET Labs UL 48 Program for real or is this a joke? I always see advertising for them on this site as a alternative listing lab to be used in UL's stead, but it's nearly impossible to get a call back. I've been told to call multiple MET reps from different regions and it all have a different pricing structure that differ in thousand$$$ of dollars?!??!

What gives??? Any shops here successfully gone MET??? If so, tell me about it-------PLEASE.

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Had the exact same experience. Finally gave up and went UL.. Sure there's more hoops to jump through with UL. But UL was responsive, and have their UL48 program together. I know my local sign inspectors will recognize the UL label.

I really gave MET too many chances to get my money. I spent over 5 weeks, dicking around with MET. And still was spinning my wheels. I to had multiple prices from MET. It seemed they're real new to the UL48 program. I was worried about their support structure, and honestly, their commitment to me.

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Our UL inspector was out at my shop last Thursday. He told me he has 6 new UL48 shops, that just signed up. I know his area is pretty large. Not sure which shops signed up. I know of a couple I spoke with a few months ago who were weighing the UL vs MET option, like I was.

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The MET UL 48 Sign Shop Program is absolutely for real, I work out of our regional office in North Carolina, and can tell you we have some very happy customers after they get up and running. Outside of our (Southeast Office) factory inspection territory, there is still some work to be done - these new programs never get up to 100% right away, but our office is ahead of many others. Our factory inspection territory, for example, does not include Texas, that is handled by our Austin office, and I'm not sure exactly where they are at on the whole process.

We certainly can't blame anyone for shopping price on these services either, the investment needed can make the entire decision. In some cases, UL is the best choice. UL is huge and they have many many regional offices and resources. We originally started this program because some companies desperately needed an alternative. We have some flexibility here in our SE office, but the further we get away from here, the more expensive it will be, (Travel time, etc). Time will tell how long it takes the other regional MET offices to come up to speed.

Intertek / ETL is also a great choice for signs, but to my knowledge they do not have the "open" program which allows you to to make any sign as long as it complies to UL 48, UL 8750, etc. The ETL program is a standard "Listing" which is a descriptive report detailing which models you are producing. (Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong). So..if you produce the same models of sign over and over again, they can be a great choice.

In our office, Karen Best is the contact for sales and program information, 800-321-4655. If you have a question she can't answer, email me: gsmith@metlabs.com.

We appreciate all your comments on this, as we strive to make this program improve. A monopoly is never good for an industry, and I imagine there will be some other testing labs starting this program also, which will be a great thing for the electric sign industry.

Thanks! Greg Smith, MET Southeast

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I had absolutely no problems with MET labs contacting me. Their rates are lower than UL and they actually explain issues to you when they inspect. Since UL went to a for profit format company I believe they should absolve themselves of creating additional standards and open this up to free enterprise as well...or stop listing products based on their own standards. Can't you see a little conflict here? I would much rather NFPA handle the safety and standards issue when it coms to electrical signs. The NEC is functionally more important for the protection of person and property since most listed products are only as safe as the methods used to install them. There are at least 7 National Recognized Testing Labs. ETL and Met are good choices to start with for making comparisons. I found MET to be the best choice for the Austin, TX area (within a 100 mile radius) of my locations

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I had absolutely no problems with MET labs contacting me. Their rates are lower than UL and they actually explain issues to you when they inspect. Since UL went to a for profit format company I believe they should absolve themselves of creating additional standards and open this up to free enterprise as well...or stop listing products based on their own standards. Can't you see a little conflict here? I would much rather NFPA handle the safety and standards issue when it coms to electrical signs. The NEC is functionally more important for the protection of person and property since most listed products are only as safe as the methods used to install them. There are at least 7 National Recognized Testing Labs. ETL and Met are good choices to start with for making comparisons. I found MET to be the best choice for the Austin, TX area (within a 100 mile radius) of my locations

A conversation we've kicked around here many times in the past and many agree. UL has strayed too far off the OSHA basic standards and has chosen a more for profit model. MET is fine with you using outdated products as long as their used as intended or in a safe way. UL is also the only listing lab with a "SAM" manual. Ultimately I would like the municipals to go back to just requiring the NEC standards with recognized listing lab products, that's the way it used to be here in San Diego till they required labels.

But as they say, once regulation is passed trying to go back is soooo much harder.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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  • 2 months later...

I dropped UL and there utter nonsense money based model. So long and good riddance. It was a joke. Took MET less than 30 days for our conversion and now smooth sailing. Saving 35% isnt bad either. I had an ETL rep in a year ago. At that time they did not offer a field sign program. At least not in Texas. ULs days of monopoly are over. Perhaps, I will start a certify company. Free money and only have to sell overprioced stickers! What a scam. What makes there approval any better than CE?

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I dropped UL and there utter nonsense money based model. So long and good riddance. It was a joke. Took MET less than 30 days for our conversion and now smooth sailing. Saving 35% isnt bad either. I had an ETL rep in a year ago. At that time they did not offer a field sign program. At least not in Texas. ULs days of monopoly are over. Perhaps, I will start a certify company. Free money and only have to sell overprioced stickers! What a scam. What makes there approval any better than CE?

Not to get into the UL/MET/ETL debate - but "CE" is not a valid listing in the USA.

It is a self-certified European standard, Electrical Inspectors (and you) should not accept it.

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I wrote a blog on NRTLs (Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories) last year http://vantageled.blogspot.com/2012/09/electrical-safety-certification-marks.html

I recall a UL rep (when I worked at a sign shop) telling me UL was "the oldest and only" one for sign shops to work with. I countered that ETL (Electronic Testing laboratories) was started by Thomas Edison and was older than UL in concept and broader in scope. Since the MET suit against OSHA, there are currently 15 different NRTLs - 3 of which have a special focus on sign-related certification programs. While I'm not much of a fan regarding regulation (as it often stymies disruptive growth and innovation), I am a big fan of NRTLs as I've seen what happens when someone puts together a shoddy electrically charged system causing property damage and (in some instances) injury and loss of life. Sign work is hard enough without being life-endangering.

Don't let anyone feel your restricted to a single choice. The worst thing with UL is their reluctance to acknowledge other NRTL-listed components thus creating a locked-in monopoly on systems which should be illegal, but is allowed as they say, "Businesses can go elsewhere if they don't like our policies." I think they're seeing more and more sign companies take them up on that offer.

.

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This brings to mind a saying that the Economist Milton Friedman once uttered. "Every company loves competition, except in the industry they happen to be in".

Competition, not monopoly builds a better mousetrap.......................

Best

"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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  • 2 weeks later...

We're in the process of shopping and comparing UL vs MET Labs. Following is what I sent Jim at MET Labs today:

Jim:

Thanks for the quote [[Jim's quote was for $5500 but it wasn't very clear what we'd get for that]].

I’m trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison between MET and UL.

Here’s UL’s:
$3050 initial, one-time, fee.

$400 for the certification test. One time fee.

$500 one time fee to purchase the manufacturing spec for lighted signs. (the actual UL 48 document).

Total one time fees: $3950

Annual license maintenance fee of $1200.

Quarterly inspections cost $469. $1876 annually.

Total annual fees: $3076

According to a post by MET’s Gregory Smith, “The new MET UL 48 Sign Shop program is more flexible, less costly than UL, and our inspectors are friendly and genuinely helpful.” See attached.

Pls help me understand how MET compares with UL and how MET’s sign shop program truly is more flexible and less costly than UL.

Thanks,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stay tuned.

Paul Jester

Miramar Sign Works

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What you also need to add in/consider when it comes to UL is your annual costs to have your weights and calipers annually certified. The lengthy paperwork you have to do compared to MET (which sticks to the OSHA standards), the the webinars they make you take on updates to their program which range from $300 to $500

What else that might get thrown in (hidden charges) maybe someone else can chime in, I'm out of the game now for the most part. But if I ever returned, it would be MET.

If you've ever been a UL subscriber you would know that UL ALWAYS has something new and their always up in your business, always finding ways to harvest that lil profit farm. It's shocking when you hear their own inspectors talk about what the people upstairs conjure up and make them do, they themselves get irritated.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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