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Erik Sine

The Great White Hope REDUX

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Here's an early pic of the first phase of our High Powered Neon / LED light test....The Great White Hope reborn!

More White Neon this time around, we're starting off with 8 lamps comprised from FMS Neon, EGL, & Glostertube from Italy.

The LEDs we're starting off with which are 1 watt modules and above are International Light, EGL, Permlight (Twisters & El PLato HO), GE (Tetra Power Max), Sloan (GW4), and Hyrite LED.

More to come.

post-3-0-87881300-1391034401_thumb.jpg

post-3-0-19189100-1391039473_thumb.jpg


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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OMG, finally finished today. Should have this class of 2014 out over the weekend. This is very different from the first Great White Hope, but a very pleasant surprise. The LEDs are getting so much better and I like the wider variety of Neon lamps.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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You obviously have different whites? What colors for neon and which for LEDs? Would be nice to see color comparisons between same colors neon and LEDs......without seeing the other competing colors and LEDs. Turn off a couple switches for pics?

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Everything as before is supposed to be 6500 which is the target, but as you know their ALL over the map. I don't have dedicated compartment switches for this one but if you did turn them on one at a time they would all appear to be white white. For the Neon, FMS, EGL, Voltarc, Glosterube, they all appear to use different phosphors.

The LEDs have some nice whites. But like everything, the more you put into it, the more you will get back and I'm talking about achieving "White" The whitest of the whites when everything is on is El Plato for LED and 60ma 13mm EGL CL65


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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  • Similar Content

    • By Erik Sine
      January 2016 Electric Sign Industry Neon & LED Test Comparison Results



      Below are the various categories of our test results made available for the electric sign industry. You can download the newest Sign Syndicate test comparison .pdf result sheet at the bottom of every Light Project Test entry with the most current date from the links below.

      Please remember....we have now made these light testing results available to you for free. If you feel like you have learned/gained something from these results or found that these results have saved you money by choosing one product over another please help support us in upgrading your free membership, or by purchasing various sign supplies we have available for you & your company. Many of our sign supply products are usually well below what you might pay for at one of the mainstream sign suppliers and some are bundles with free shipping. We've attached many various banners to the results in hope something may grab your eye.

      As always, enjoy the results and hope you learn as we do going down this adventurous path!




      The Great White Hope II (Year 1 & 2) The high powered white Neon & LED test comparison for large channel letters and sign cabinets, comprised of high powered LED modules 1watt+/3watt per foot+ and above with Tri-Phosphor Neon Lamps. (8,000+ hrs)
      This month we added in NC's HLC4 Samsung High Powered 1.8 watt Constant Current LED
      January 2013 Evaluation Download: GreatWhiteHopeII 010316.pdf
      Project Tighty Whitey - (Year 5 & 6) - The white exclusive LED only test comparison for mid (.95 modules or 2.99 per foot watt modules and below) to mini sized LED modules. (40,000+ hrs)
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      January 2013 Evaluation Download:ProJectTight 010316.pdf

      The Red Light District - (Year 3 & 4) - The Red Neon & LED channel letter light source test comparison. (34,000+ hrs)

      January 2013 Evaluation Download:RedL010316.pdf

      Border Security - (Year 3 & 4)- The Neon & LED border tube lamp test comparison. (23,000+ hrs)
      January 2013 Evaluation Download:BorderSec 010316.pdf

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      January 2013 Evaluation Download:BlueLight 010316.pdf
    • By Erik Sine
      Originally Posted Jul 12 2013 10:46 PM

      Border Security
      3/10/11 - Present





      The only thing we ask is, if you like what you see and if it helps you make better buying decisions for your sign applications that you build then you can support us and the tests we do by either upgrading your free membership to a Board Patron which has it's additional benefits or by purchasing electrical sign supplies that we sell here on The Sign Syndicate as you'll see in the test result sheets!


      One thing that we don't sell here on The Sign Syndicate for the exact reasons of these tests is sell Neon Glass or LED Modules because I know most would think us bias if we did. So because of this, we'll only sell electrical sign supplies that compliment these light sources such as LED power supplies, and neon wiring & Transformers etc.

      You'll also notice a lot of Light Source MFG's signed up here on the Sign Syndicate and submitted their lamps for the testing. Some did not, and you'll see "Non-Willing Participant" next to their name in the Tutorial product listings. Most did not want to because they did not want to be compared to their competition or called out on their claims when they show up to your shop and tell you you should buy theirs because they are superior to their competition. Well, all we can do here is include some of those MFG's anyway and throw them up on the board and see where they might fall. We hope some of them at some point join us and take part because they want to. They ALL have an open invitation to do so. We thinks it's a good idea and there is a lot to learn and most of the time it just begs more questions than results can answer. If you are a Light source manufacturer interested in having your lamps included then please upgrade your free membership to a Board Vendor (which includes a free advertising package for the duration of your membership) and submit your lamps



      Project Description

      First as usual, for questions or comments about this tutorial please visit the private support topic for this test.
      http://www.thesignsy...order-security/

      Second, I'd like to thank the newest Board Vendors that help & participate to make this Tutorial and Test possible. So a big thank you and welcome to EGL, LED-Neon Flex, & FMS Neon.

      This is a Comparison and performance test of both Blue Neon & LED border components for outline lighting applications. We are also doing a few select in green as well, maybe even dab into a few red in the near future.


      Project Specifications

      All units will be 2' units end to end and housed in a 5" individual deep channel that will be covered with a blue acrylic lens at the time of measuring light on a monthly or bi-monthly basis for lumen maintenance. All light sources will be cycled twice per day running for two periods of 10 hours on, 2 hours off.

      The Neon lamps will range from 15mm to 18mm and powered by a electronic transformer but energy figures off a magnetic, LED border units will be powered by 12v to 24v power sources.


      Blue Products used
      18mm EGL Neon Horizon Blue lamp 15mm EGL Neon Horizon Blue lamp 18mm FMS Rich Blue lamp 15mm FMS Rich Blue lamp Sloan ColorLINE (*Non-willing participant) Sloan FlexiBRITE(*Non-willing participant) GE Contour(*Non-willing participant) LED Neon Flex - Blue Plus LED Neon Flex - Blue Flex US LED Accent 2(*Non-willing participant) Red Products used
      LEDNeon-Flex Pro Red lamp SloanLED StripeLED Red lamp Future Lamps
      15mm EGL Neon Tropic Green lamp 18mm EGL Neon Tropic Green lamp (Future) 18mm FMS Mint Green lamp 15mm FMS Mint Green lamp LED Neon Flex - Green Plus LED Neon Flex - Green Flex Transformers & Power Supplies
      Ventex 4030 30ma Meanwell 24v Axiom 12v



      7/12/13

      This is the first entry for year 3 & 4.

      What's new this month is the new side by side pic of the light sources in this months Test Result pdf file.

      JULY REST RESULTS: BorderSec 070913.pdf



      8/26/13


      The two Neon manufacturers are just about neck and neck.

      Those LED border units my not be as bright as Neon but some of them have barely even begun to take a lumen maintenance hit, that has to impress. Everything is not always about brightness but usable light as well and applications where Neon glass is not applicable. It's still early, we are only at 12k hours of operation. If this was Vegas where it's warm and most light sources run 24/7.

      It will be interesting to see where things lay at 25k hours and again at 35k.

      We'll keep doing what we do and run'em!!

      AUGUST REST RESULTS: DOWNLOAD LINK



      2/12/14


      6 months later and in the winter months. Neon being exposed is somewhat down and they will shoot back up later in the warmer months. The Sloan Flex is really starting to fall along with the older LEDNeon Flex but we can see the newer "Pro" version is holding.

      Later we will be adding "Glostertube"

      AUGUST REST RESULTS: DOWNLOAD LINK



      SEPTEMBER 2014
      10/30/14


      As I've stated in other light test evaluations it's been some time since I've entered anything other than the down loadable pdf with the light test results. Since ISA is coming closer than we know I'm sure more new red products will be coming out and we'll be adding them here.


      SEPTEMBER TEST RESULTS http://www.thesignsy...arison-results/



    • By Erik Sine
      Originally Posted May 31 2013 02:30 PM


      THE BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL
      6/1/13 to Present


      Updated (6/5/13)


      Project Description

      For questions, comments & evaluation updates please visit the project support topic located here
      http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6257-blue-light-special/


      If you're a light source or plastics manufacturer and interested in joining in on the test comparison you'll need to upgrade your membership to a Board Vendor
      http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/

      This test comparison is simulating single stroke blue sign faced channel letters with Neon & LED light sources. This is a small project with limited room for vendors. We will also be playing around with different acrylic and poly-carbonate sign faces from various vendors.

      There is a lot of industry myth that blue faced channel letters cannot be done, this is incorrect information. There are various ways to get a good, clean defined appearance free or haze or fuzz during night illumination. Most of the time this can be done with white acrylic sign faces with translucent blue film overlays leaving a white acrylic outline. This project is for using pure blue sign faces with blue light sources to backlight.

      The general purpose of this project is to help in aiding large sign programs such as as Ross, Old Navy, and Albertson's that use similar specifications


      Project Specifications

      All channels are 4" x 24" and light sources are for a 2' section. Some LED modules will need to be placed above spec and we will add what we need to achieve even lighting, those mfg. will be noted when we have to do so.


      Light Source List
      EGL Horizon Blue (13/12mm) SS Sign Lights LEDs (Insem) *Sloan V-series (*Non-Willing Participant) AA LED Blue NC LED Blue Permlight Nitro Transformers & Power Supplies
      Ventex 4030
      Axiom 12v LED Power Supply





      * Non-Willing Participants are Manufacturers who did not want to take part in these tests



      5/31/13

      Pics of some of the light sources we now have up

      EGL's Horizon Blue




      SS Sign Lights Blue




      Sloan V-Series Blue








      6/5/13


      Today we finally connected and hooked up the NC LED & AALED Blue.



      AA LED Blue - put in by eeLED Lighting






      NC LED - Put in by Abitech




      We'll be looking to getting just a few more vendors.



      6/7/13

      Today is Opening Day for Project Blue Light Special!

      So far so good, We'll revise real soon with a initial comparison shot and talk about the coloring.


      June 2013 Test Results Download: BlueLight060713.pdf
      Revised:




      7/12/13

      We finally have our first initial shot of the light sources. Not the most accurate but close enough where the camera settings are saved and we'll use those settings for future comparisons as this test goes on.

      New this month we added Permlights Nitro Blue. The specs call out for 2 mods per foot but we were getting hot spots so we made it 2.5 mods per foot or 5 total for the 2' channel. So far it's the brightest LED in the comparison.


      Initial Test Comparison Shot



      Permlight's Nitro Blue



      July 2013 Test Results Download: BlueLight070913.pdf
      Revised:






      2/12/14

      6 month later and we see that the EGL Neon lamp has taken it's normal 15% lumen maintenance. Everything else is so far so good!

      This month we will be removing the EGL lamp and placing in FMS Neon & Glostertube, both 12mm lamps. Reason for the removal is the present lamp is processed as a double back and we will be doing the electrodes in 90's so we can use multiple lamps on a single SST transformer with the use of Transco TC-200 Housings

      We will also be adding in for the LED side, JS LED's Blue.


      FEBRUARY 2014 Test Results Download: DOWNLOAD LINK




      SEPTEMBER 2014
      10/30/14


      As I've stated in other light test evaluations it's been some time since I've entered anything other than the down loadable pdf with the light test results. Since ISA is coming closer than we know I'm sure more new red products will be coming out and we'll be adding them here.

      SEPTEMBER TEST RESULTS http://www.thesignsy...arison-results/

    • By Erik Sine
      Originally Posted Mar 15 2014 05:43 PM

      The Great White Hope II - (Year 1 & 2)

      February 2014 - Present




      The only thing we ask is, if you like what you see and if it helps you make better buying decisions for your sign applications that you build then you can support us and the tests we do by either upgrading your free membership to a Board Patron which has it's additional benefits or by purchasing electrical sign supplies that we sell here on The Sign Syndicate as you'll see in the test result sheets!


      One thing that we don't sell here on The Sign Syndicate for the exact reasons of these tests is sell Neon Glass or LED Modules because I know most would think us bias if we did. So because of this, we'll only sell electrical sign supplies that compliment these light sources such as LED power supplies, and neon wiring & Transformers etc.

      You'll also notice a lot of Light Source MFG's signed up here on the Sign Syndicate and submitted their lamps for the testing. Some did not, and you'll see "Non-Willing Participant" next to their name in the Tutorial product listings. Most did not want to because they did not want to be compared to their competition or called out on their claims when they show up to your shop and tell you you should buy theirs because they are superior to their competition. Well, all we can do here is include some of those MFG's anyway and throw them up on the board and see where they might fall. We hope some of them at some point join us and take part because they want to. They ALL have an open invitation to do so. We thinks it's a good idea and there is a lot to learn and most of the time it just begs more questions than results can answer. If you are a Light source manufacturer interested in having your lamps included then please upgrade your free membership to a Board Vendor (which includes a free advertising package for the duration of your membership) and submit your lamps


      I first to want to start off by thanking everyone who has been involved with this project from the start and continue to make it better, I want to specially thank Telford Dorr for this immeasurable measurements, Marko of YYZ LED Systems for helping to move this project in a better direction and the Vendors who have participated with their products for this comparison.


      Though 6500 SW is the standard here for comparison you'll see a variation of whites, not all are of course in the same ballpark, but you will see where pending the application you might choose one over the other.


      You might see some edits done on this tutorial over the course an that is because information may/will change.


      Every month power readings and light output readings will be added to this tutorial. Other tests may also be done not yet defined at this point. A picture will also be taken with the same settings and placement.


      THE TEST:

      First, The Great White Hope II is for high powered LEDs 1watt + and above, all others below are for Project Tighty Whitey. This is also for Neon & Tri-Phosphor Neon Lamps.

      Like our other tests, we are taking period reads and measuring the light output of every single light source in our test right on the sign face which is made up of a 8" x 8" marked square on the same spot every time and we average the highs and lows.

      For the initial power consumption measuring for the LEDs we are using a GW Instek programmable power supply. This PS measure and tells us what each string pulls as if the power supply they were on is running at 100% efficiency. Why we do it this way is because the power supply YOU use for your applications will vary and we want to level the plain field.

      On the Neon side of things we are just going to use the age old France Footage/Watt Chart, this is also to assume the neon is running on a typical magnetic power supply. We are also not including the 1 extra foot of power consumption per pair of electrodes per lamp because this would greatly skew the numbers of small 2' light sources.

      The main thing about this benchmark test is that we are looking at lumen maintenance and how much each product will hold up over time and monitor the light degradation. One thing I wish we could measure and monitor is the color shift over time of each product. Maybe we will get access to a spectrometer in the future because there is a huge shift of some products over time and we will notice in our yearly shots that we take for comparison.



      SIGN CHANNEL STRUCTURE

      Well, instead of the large sectioned out cabinet we had for the first Great White Hope this time we did assimilated to our other tests and fabricated individual channels for each light source.


      LIGHT SOURCE PRODUCT LIST (Top to Bottom)
      Axiom LED AXLE9XB 13mm EGL DL 61 ((Tri-Phosphor 60ma) *-Non-Willing Participant 15mm Voltarc 6500 SW *-Non-Willing Participant 13mm Voltarc 6500 SW *-Non-Willing Participant 15mm FMS TC 6500 (Tri-Phosphor) 15mm Glostertube 6500 6500 166 (Tri-Phosphor) 13mm EGL DL61 (Tri-Phosphor) 13mm Voltarc Tri-Lite *-Non-Willing Participant 12mm FMS TC6500 (Tri-Phosphor) Permlight El Plato HO *-Non-Willing Participant GOQ LED *-Non-Willing Participant GE Tetra Power Max *-Non-Willing Participant International Light Technologies Summit Sloan GW4 *-Non-Willing Participant Permlight Twister *-Non-Willing Participant Hyco CooChip SIGN COMPONENTS
      1/8" Cyro #7328 White Acrylic Lens Faces CCFL Transformers- Ventex 6030/60CL CCFL Transformers- Ventex 6030/30CL Axiom 60 Watt Class II LED Power Supplies Transco TC200 Porcelain Housings FMS Neon Tube Supports Plasco Trim Cap

      DURATION:

      This project is never stopping, it runs for two 10 hour cycles a day 365 days a year


      NEON & LED POWER:

      Unlike the first Great White Hope where we had dedicated power sources for each lamp are are copying our other light test projects that consist of all light sources on a shared power supply. For the LEDs are are using the surplus military grade Axiom LED Power Supplies left over from the GWH (So to continue their endurance at 40k+ operating hours) because of the manual DC voltage set screw to assure we have exactly 12volts across all LED strings to level the playing field. For all Neon Lamps we are using our surplus SST Ventex Neon Transformers to again, continue to monitor their endurance as well at 40k+ hours of operation. All Neon lamps are on a shared SST.




      EARLY TEST PICTURES

      Finally lighting up all the neon side of the project



      The same for the LED side



      The back side of the project







      March 15, 2014

      Today is the first evaluation since the project has been ongoing. The only thing we have in news is that as usual all the Neon lamps are taking their initial lumen maintenance that comes in the first 1000 or so hours then we'll see them plane off gradually.

      Below are the pics of the class of 2014.

      I'm just going to show off one pic of the Neon, because no one will be able to distinguish one from the other.

      PIC1



      Hyco CooChip



      Permlight's El Plato HO



      GE's Tetra Power Max



      GOQ's Quad Chip LED



      Sloan's GW4



      International Light Technologies Summit



      Permlight's Twister



      I'm currently looking to add US LED's Quasar 3, Osram, and Agilight and whatever other LED manufacturers decide to join us in this ongoing comparison project.

      In a short observation we're already seen a 16% drop in light output from the CooChip and we'll see what happens next period.

      Just this month a national sign company gave us a few strings of AgiLight LEDs that they wanted to see in our various tests that they also use for a national sign program. The string that we will be putting up for GWH II will be the Apex series, this will be for April.

      Some of the LEDs we have in our tests come from sign companies who are curious about the performance of products they use, and when doing so it helps us all out and we all learn.


      MARCH 2014 EVALUATION DOWNLOAD


      SEPTEMBER 2014 EVALUATION
      10/30/14

      It's been some time. In August we added Axiom LEDs AXLE9XB module at 14.7 volts on a dedicated power supply, the LEDs come in at 1.6 watts each.

      AXLE9XB



      We're a little over a month of reporting these late September results and about two weeks short of doing Novembers. It's been some time so I may add or make changes to the above information.

      The download sheet for September can be found here

      Link http://www.thesignsy...arison-results/


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