Nickels & Dimes

[Erik Sine]

Just thought I'd throw something out since I've heard and read some conversations here and elsewhere about rising cost of products. Be careful about who you throw money at and who you deny because of something you want to buy that may cost a few nickels, dimes, or bucks more because you know that product is better and lasts longer but you choose the cheapo route out. When you don't support the superior products in the market place and support those that cost cheaper and where the quality is cheaper, pretty soon the ones that need your support have no choice but to close the doors because the support is gone Then, you're just going to be stuck with soon to be a higher costing, lower quality product....then the real bitching and whining will come and then the users who buy your products just "suck" and always need to be replaced.

Make sure you try and support as much as possible the quality products that you know work and function like they should.

[alltex]

Good topic Erik! I'm still holding to my 3 yr warranty, parts and labor. I won't cut corners on materials, or fabrication. I will never be the cheapest sign builder. And am not looking for that client base. The old saying, "You get what you pay for".. Still plays out today.

[Erik Sine]

Nice Mark.

Too many times do I see sign companies roll out a 3 or 5 year warranty with a clause that goes something along the lines of "everything parts and labor at one year, all parts covered in the 3 to 5 year but labor will be still be charged".

This industry needs to step up better.

I think there should be an "Integrity Warranty" composed of a 3 to 5 year worry free warranty, maybe even 8 (depending on how the sign is being used) to protect the consumer from those fly-by nights. I would even encourage at the time of dropping off a proposal that the client understands that when they look at your proposal that might be priced higher, they fully understand your 3 to 5 (or 8) year gets them fully covered in that period and are assured that their sign is comprised of quality workmanship and that the other competing bids might only be giving them a full one year leaving them exposed to to occur labor charges for something their sign shop choose to poorly spec out.

Lamps should be include in this as well, a promise no drop in light output below 70% in say 18,000 hours.

What a good selling point to separate yourself from the inexperienced boy shops

[alltex]

My 3 yr includes everything, even lamps.

The 5 yr seems to be a stretch now. Sometimes our hands are tied in our fabrication choices. Landlords specking LED's only, no neon for example. Or corporate specs on parts I would never use. Sometimes warranties are a gamble. So you have to be budget conscious, as well as trust worthy in the components you buy. As we've all learned, even the top product suppliers have a bad "batch or run" on their products. Sure they'll cover the cost of part replacements. Getting them to pay for labor is another thing.

The company I worked at, prior to starting my own shop. Did about 20 sets of letters (3' tall) with LED's. In less than 18 months, all the signs had major failures. The LED's/PS's that were used, were from a reputable company. They did not step up, and cover any labor. Or would they refund the cost of their products, so we could switch to a different supplier. That was a huge hit, they will never get my business.

[Erik Sine]

I can understand specs from a sign program spec put into place, but I think if it's my deal, my design or bid then I'm easily going 5 year. I think it helps to separate yourself from others. Especially if it's something like a set of red channel letters, then I tell the client 8 years on the red neon lamps with NO light degradation, 5 years for everything else.

It's just my opinion this would help to thin the pool of competing bids by shops who are part of this "Race to the bottom" mentality with cheap parts composed of $15 power supplies and $1 modules a little, and plan of attack with confidence on my side. If the competing bids can offer the same in writing, then it will make it that much more interesting.

JMHO

[alltex]

I'm not aware of anyone in the Dallas/Ft Worth market area giving the warranty I do. Most are 90 day labor, 1 to 2 years parts.

[geraldi]

I've used the same brand LED's for 6 years now. I use name brands on everything. I am wholesale to the trade only, channel letters etc... I want to know whats in my signs everytime. I don't want to use the deal of the month. Once it leaves here, I don't want to have to worry about it anymore.