Jump to content

ELECTRIC SIGN SUPPLIES
If You're Looking For Premium Electric Sign Industry Components From Trim Cap, LED's, Neon Supplies, Power Supplies, Pattern Paper.  Then Please Visit Our Online Store or Feel Free To Call Us For Inquiries or Placing an Order!!
Buy Now

SIGN INSTALLER MAP
Looking for a fellow Sign Syndicate Company Member For A Sign Install or Maintenance Call?
Click Here

For Sign Company's Who Work As Subcontractors
Before You Work For A National Sign & Service Company You Need To Look At The Reviews Of These Companies Before You Work For Them. Learn When To Expect Payment From Them and What It's Like To Work For Them, The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. Learn and Share Your Experiences Yourself For Others

Click Here

A new Sign TRADE Association


Recommended Posts

Bringing America Back Home

post-3-0-90242100-1431358807.jpg

First I want to say that I fear for the future of the American Electric Sign Industry, this is why I say the things I do when it comes to this trade, and of course our leadership and the role their supposed to fill. I've never been accused of of holding back my feelings, so let's not give that a second thought.

This topic has been in the making since our Vegas ISA Trip. I've been meaning to post for some time, I've written some, saved it, written some more, deleted some content and saved it all while working on sign projects and life events....and it's grown since since I've had some conversations that brought up this very same material that I've had in the back of my head. All very similar mindset so I know I'm not the only one thinking that a new movement IS needed, and very badly.

I thought I would start this in a new forum away from the ISA Trip thread which is where at first it was going to go as a reply to a already existing topic. While being at this years show and reading a few accounts of other peoples experiences of the show that they had on site, it made me think.......because that's what I do.

I think we can get very different opinions about what everyone sees when they go to a large sign show these days. I think if you're a sign association employee you look at the show and said..."Good turn out, how can we expand even more...". If you're a newby or someone from say the print or vehicle wrap world you said "Wow, cool LEDs and message boards!". If you're a seasoned electric sign tradesman or women you most likely said...."eh.....at least I got to see my supplier and product manufacturers in person....". Not just by what you say walking through browsing, but based on the "education" seminar line up too. I would even go so far as to say the general feelings on what's being done for the electric sign industry might be the same. Again, based on the fact if you're a seasoned, well versed individual in our unique trade.

I think we need to draw a line that shows contrast, and show what the differences are between what the current associations are doing for the electric sign trade, and what the electric sign trade is, and what it's interests are.

I look at ISA now and when I see the makeup it's frankly gotten too big, it's too broad and most of those that run it aren't from our trade, their from others and they cycle from one trade, to ours, and then they cycle right into another somewhere else.....and frankly their heart is NOT in the same place as ours is when it comes to OUR trade.....the electric sign trade, or...the American Electric Sign trade.

I think it's become forgotten because there is just a lot of money in a lot of other areas when your association model becomes or is turned into a business model rather than taking a stand for the industry. The International Sign Association is acquiring and buddying up too fast to other areas that are and not related to the immediate needs of the most important aspect of the sign trade, the "Electric Sign Trade" The needs of the American Sign Companies to the needs of the American Sign Manufacturing Companies.

Most of those seasoned people I refer too above who said the show was "...eh.." say they wish the show was separated so they wouldn't have to walk too far to see what they ONLY came to see, or to see the booths that relate to just them. That would be nice but, the show wants you to see the whole floor so they can collect that traffic and they need, that traffic to show all the exhibitors those numbers completely, even though those numbers don't really reflect who's there to really see what or who. The smart thing to do is scatter so one must tour ALL and give an opportunity for all to be visibly seen. That way later when they come up with attendance number is can be used to make all sectors think it applies to them, or maybe that's a stretch of a statement to make.

I personally think a new association needs to be formed one day, and the framing from those fathers needs to begin today.

I think some real intelligent like minded individuals that have experience in other sign associations, combined with component manufacturers and individuals from sign companies need to come together and meet the needs of the American Electric Sign Trade, an interest that puts American capitalism back in the forefront, and not the Asian or European model of our current. At the same time promotes our trade to the public and educates the public about what it is we do, who unique and specialized it is and what we can build. Our trade does NOT have that right now, we only have brochure mis-information that the public get blanketed with.

I think that's what I see missing, and what I see as a big void that needs to be filled because we have a black hole forming.

We need to show contrast and it's this.

For the electric sign companies the trade itself is in the midst of being lost. The real education that one should be obtaining that most received of yesterday is gone. We need to get back to the basics when is comes to sign fabrication, structural, planning, light & energy engineering. Get away from the new model which is turning this trade into a commodity. We need strong leadership that truly, truly...fights regulation...not agrees, rolls with it, and figures out a way to make a program out of it to pass on down and charge their members....and instead of partnering up with other aspects of the sign industry that don't apply like screen printers, apparel, and printers, we need to partner up with other groups, watch dogs, causes, or associations that have mutual interests in staying regulation free. Regulation that interrupts the American Electric Sign Industry and robs us of our right to proser and right to happiness.

Regulation is not going away, don't get me wrong I'm not anti- regulation nor an anarchist, I do believe we need to have moderate regulation...just not license stacked on top of license and over safety where it costs us who in turn pass it along to the consumer. The environmental product and safety movement that we have in this country is a strong powerful funded movement. Our own industry right now has large sectors that aids this movement and here we are as a whole shooting our own toes off trying to prosper at the same time killing our own future.

Right now in some states the International Sign Association is trying to find ways to make it okay for companies who posses no contractors license, lack any kind of electric sign experience to just roll up in this industry by simply purchasing a vinyl quick stop shop and execute and sub large sign programs involving electric and architectural signs. This is happening right now in Wisconsin which was aided by their own association and it was attempted in Texas. The Texas Sign Association even had a pair and said "hell no" to that idea. We already have a bad enough issues when it comes to illegal sign contracts that involve companies posing as licensed contractors who hire legal contractors as subcontractors. A big problem for the west coast states and most others who have state contractors laws.

The very investment of the electric sign companies who posses such a right to do business because they went through all the proper channels and avenues going from a apprenticeship to journeyman is being diminished because a particular sector of an association who has more members than the electric sign sector believes that the electric sign trade is NOT a trade, but rather a commodity? A commodity where even the Home Depot clerk and decide to execute contracts and sub out his own roofing or water heater jobs as work a 3rd party?

This is not in the interest of the American Electric Sign Industry.

A NEW JOURNEY

Let's imagine the build of a new association for a minute to illustrate the differences between our current, and what our own beliefs are as a true trade that recognizes & reflects those traits that humble us. "Integrity & Tradition". We need to educate the public about what the electric sign industry can do and properly perform, what light sources can and can't do.

To become apart of this American sign & lighting (I did sneak in "Lighting" there!) association there also has to be a strict code of conduct, and the standards and bar MUST be set high.

Everyone has to be dept free, from the leadership to the basic member and not be behind or in debt with other members. Leadership roles need to be held to limited time, the last thing an association needs is someone who is concurrently serving in 3 to 5 different associations at once. Individuals can only serve a position once, ONCE. This again is in the best interest of our industry, and to the consumer who needs to get the correct information.

The core or the employed of this association, from the president on down NEED to have a background in the electric sign industry, that's a requirement.

ISA has this new Elite Program for the young and moldable "executives".

We need to get back in touch with our more seasoned veterans of this sign industry and beg for forgiveness for pushing them aside for something greener, faster and cheaper.

Our more experienced have a bigger key to play in all this than any of us, they hold the key to what's been forgotten, and that "character", character of this industry of a long time past. This industry needs to return to what makes America exceptional, it begins with mutual vision of hard work and values, and we can learn that best by those who came and ran this industry before us. Not by the old guard who like to keep things as they once were, nor by the few who liked to be empowered by ego.

It's just an idea, an American idea, an idea that promotes to the public that we offer a very unique form of custom electrical advertising that is a specialty.

This industry has a long hard road ahead if we are to maintain this as a trade and not let others who are outside of our industry dictate to us and turn it into something which it is not by executing statements about our capabilities and never fully explaining, that's the mis-information!

We have to create our own industry standards by measuring what we know and what we work with so the public (consumers), outside groups, or government won't be clouded or mislead. When this happens in only enables the environmental, product safety movement that restricts what we do. I'm talking about coming up with a measurable standard that measures light and power, after all, isn't this what we do and build?

No current sign associations does this, you have to ask yourself why? This is one of the most important questions of our day, seriously....ask yourself. Don't you wonder???

If they actually did dare to create such a measurable standard that interferes with their membership advertising makeup we wouldn't be in the current mess that we are in now. We wouldn't have to rely on manufacturers, or government bureaucrats who end up misleading because they have something to sell or a reason to get more power for themselves by manufactured lies.

If someones going to come into our industry and make a claim, it needs to be measured, and verified. This is NOT being done right now. If we can do that, it will make the integrity of our industry stronger, and in turn it will make us all more valuable. Not just to ourselves but against any regulation that might be endangering the way we do business.

It looks like all we have done as a industry is make others outside of our industry profit as we loose. It's been this way for a while because we've given up control and given them the reigns of our own industry to those who have never spent a day in a sign shop where one has to trim cap, bend & process Neon, manage projects, stress over payroll, maintain licensing

I believe that there are others who think as I and a few others do, maybe not completely 100%, but enough to know....to look at ourselves, at where we are and know where we have been....and know we are far from where we should be, and want that back. To leave something behind where the current residents now say "run, and get out of this industry as far as you can".

In recent days I've had a a few conversations in person and by phone about this topic unknowing to them, they hit on some key points I've sort of hit or outlined here I've let them know what I pretty much said in this topic and most of what I've said is a big mutual concern. So this is the main reason why I'm getting this out there.

It's not my intent to shit on our existing sign associations I think most of you know I've always had a difference of opinion on them, I'm just emphasizing the contrast in who they are, what they do versus what we need for the electrical sign trade. Their hearts and interests just aren't in it nor the same as ours, with all their other off/bi-trade acquisitions, mergers and partnerships in the print industry, garment industry and other off-shoots, coupled with the politics that goes into their membership......how can they be?

In short, we need a new American Electrical Sign & Lighting Association that forms a rock solid wall of standards by measuring the components that we use, in lighting components and otherwise. We need to use these standards and educate the public, they need to know the strengths and weakness's of lighting and how they perform to their environment and application use. We need to promote American Companies ( & Canada), find ways to incentivize entrepreneurship, innovation, and production of products back in America and to this industry. We need to educate our trade about proper fabrication and installation of all light sources for all sign and lighting applications whether it's Neon, LEDs, Fluorescent Lamps, HIDs, etc. We need to partner up with similar groups, causes, movements, watchdog groups, and associations like the IAEI (National Electrical Inspectors Association) to fight and minimize regulation, the environmental product safety movement and increasing costs because of those factors to the consumer.

I think I've said more than a mouthful, it's been hard to find the time to squeeze this thread in with so much work I currently have going, but here it is. Wish I had more time but I shouldn't complain.

This Industry is looking for leadership, this industry is looking for ideas on how to bring that about, I have a few, we need others, and I think it starts with like minded individuals from various enterprises, expertise that might have a similar idea that is AESLA, or American Electrical Sign & Lighting Association.

Anyone smell that new fresh car smell? Better get a whiff.....it only comes around once.

  • Like 3

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Board Patron

I'm in, captain

Edited by chubbygumby
  • Like 1

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, and glad to hear.

I think I might have an opportunity to put a first meet together or sort of small exhibit with vendors (Suppliers / MFG's / Sign MFG Wholesalers) who want to join on a new association along with sign shops here in Southern California at a facility.

I can bring the test cabinets from our testing on LEDs, Fluorescent, Neon & other light sources on display and we can all measure them. I'd like to invite a few individuals from a few energy/utility companies, something to kick off the Sign & Lighting Industry "Standards", unofficial of course for now. We can set up a few actual signs as well and measure that usage in light and energy. I think it will shock a few on the findings, especially those from the utility companies.

I would actually want more involvement from the vendors who have "know how" on their products and of the industry to start a discussion on set times throughout the day.

This can be a start, I think a lot can be learned, and by bonding/banding together perhaps the ball can really get rolling. The key of course is getting involvement, perhaps those Vendors can look at this as a way of becoming grandfather clause'd in and for something better at the start.

  • Like 1

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need it badly. Not just the shotty work, but the lies that some people spout about L.E.D. vs neon etc. L.E.D. has it's place, but that isn't everywhere and out sign reps at the wholesalers have no idea about neon anymore. I ask questions and they have no clue. It's been this forum and Mark at SVP that have saved my ass in the past and most likely will again in the future. I only learned to bend glass in 1995, and was taught by the shop I worked in. I learned my builds, wiring, etc from books or the guys in the shop.......better leadership by people in the industry who CARE about our industry is needed.......

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's all part of the standards that will need to be collected and put together for the purposes FOR the end user or consumers. The large retailers, shopping centers, establishments, and developers will need to know what will do what, and how it will perform based on their environment whether it's Fluorescent, Neon, HID, or LED Lamps. All the light sources have a role to play but it's the job of this new association to educate the public and end users by measuring and publishing a report that gets updated every so often as technology in our industry changes.

You mention "shotty", a lot of sign companies just prefer to use LEDs for everything and in the wrong application because of the cheap labor, this gives our industry a huge black eye as well as LEDs when used improperly. The reason for the demand of Neon recently is not because of sign companies but because the consumer wants it back, either because of preference or because they have received nothing but failure with other light sources again, used improperly where they may not apply well.

There will be a VERY strict code of ethics for members, something that needs to go more into depth and all goes around this new set of standards that needs to be set. We don't want members mis-representing this association by carrying on with the current mis-leading information on their proposals, websites, or marketing material. Having this new logo on their website or drawings will actually mean/represent something to the consumer, not just a logo that was paid for by just joining up with a group and paying a membership fee.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The standards part, measuring the light sources is probably the easiest part. Initially setting up is what would take time and it's going to take some "unique" individuals who genuinely want to start something new to leave something behind tomorrow.

As for the "big boys", not sure who you're referring too. If you mean large sign companies, there will always be those who want to separate themselves from their competition. The best part is, they will have hard undisputed data to back that up when it comes to competitive bids/projects.

We can't please everyone, nor do we even want to remotely try.

Companies either accept a strict code of raised standards to better themselves and this industry, something that they themselves can measure or choose to stay with a group who prefers not to and drives with blinders on. They can choose to be an association who'll accept anything from anyone for financial gain where lines are drawn in the sand or they can accept a hard unmovable wall. One that wants to put American companies/interests back on the map or one that wants to dance to/with anyone overseas and promote those interests from over seas.

One of the most important aspects we want to do is educate the public in a way that makes simple sense to them. A smart public will pick smarter/better build companies to build their products. The public will pick a company who has higher standards every time as along as the they themselves are educated about what those standards are. Having affiliation to an association that educates and promotes high standards builds trust.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Board Patron

"PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER". Groucho Marx...

I'm in, that is if you agree to my above plagiarized terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The standards part, measuring the light sources is probably the easiest part. Initially setting up is what would take time and it's going to take some "unique" individuals who genuinely want to start something new to leave something behind tomorrow.

As for the "big boys", not sure who you're referring too. If you mean large sign companies, there will always be those who want to separate themselves from their competition. The best part is, they will have hard undisputed data to back that up when it comes to competitive bids/projects.

We can't please everyone, nor do we even want to remotely try.

Companies either accept a strict code of raised standards to better themselves and this industry, something that they themselves can measure or choose to stay with a group who prefers not to and drives with blinders on. They can choose to be an association who'll accept anything from anyone for financial gain where lines are drawn in the sand or they can accept a hard unmovable wall. One that wants to put American companies/interests back on the map or one that wants to dance to/with anyone overseas and promote those interests from over seas.

One of the most important aspects we want to do is educate the public in a way that makes simple sense to them. A smart public will pick smarter/better build companies to build their products. The public will pick a company who has higher standards every time as along as the they themselves are educated about what those standards are. Having affiliation to an association that educates and promotes high standards builds trust.

Amen. Let's get the public educated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Board Patron

Well said and you know we're in!

I can't believe that person from that sign association just came on this topic and spammed us with something so off topic by promoting themselves. To top it off, didn't even have the decency to come back and answer any of your questions.

Why would want to join more of the same?

Your idea about creating a report for the public is perfect!

ps - you need to delete her post

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • !llumenati

I thought USA did a decent job of presenting themselves. And they do a great job of repping sign people. Their post was moved to a separate topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must admit I'm on the fence about moving their post, it just may be moved back here but I need to find out what their lighting data is all about and if they have a similar interest about educating the public about all usable light sources with light output, power consumption, and degradation in LEDs, Neon, Fluorescent & HIDs etc and membership makeup be damned then well..... If it is that sort of data then that's something that shouldn't be kept in house it needs to be on the front page for all consumers.

If that's the case and they look like a willing partner to address my concerns I've listed from the beginning of this topic then they I'll do everything I can in promoting them here and doing whatever else I can in addition. They could consider themselves a new friend.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
  • Create New...