The Great White Hope Year 1 - 2

[Erik Sine]

Originally posted Oct 24 2008 09:37 AM

10/08 -Present

The only thing we ask is, if you like what you see and if it helps you make better buying decisions for your sign applications that you build then you can support us and the tests we do by either upgrading your free membership to a Board Patron which has it's additional benefits or by purchasing electrical sign supplies that we sell here on The Sign Syndicate as you'll see in the test result sheets!


One thing that we don't sell here on The Sign Syndicate for the exact reasons of these tests is sell Neon Glass or LED Modules because I know most would think us bias if we did. So because of this, we'll only sell electrical sign supplies that compliment these light sources such as LED power supplies, and neon wiring & Transformers etc.

You'll also notice a lot of Light Source MFG's signed up here on the Sign Syndicate and submitted their lamps for the testing. Some did not, and you'll see "Non-Willing Participant" next to their name in the Tutorial product listings. Most did not want to because they did not want to be compared to their competition or called out on their claims when they show up to your shop and tell you you should buy theirs because they are superior to their competition. Well, all we can do here is include some of those MFG's anyway and throw them up on the board and see where they might fall. We hope some of them at some point join us and take part because they want to. They ALL have an open invitation to do so. We thinks it's a good idea and there is a lot to learn and most of the time it just begs more questions than results can answer. If you are a Light source manufacturer interested in having your lamps included then please upgrade your free membership to a Board Vendor (which includes a free advertising package for the duration of your membership) and submit your lamps



I first to want to start off by thanking everyone who was involved with this project from ABC Sign Products for the cabinet, Ventex for the CCFL power supplies and all vendors who submitted their products for this comparison.

All vendors products and time spent on development is appreciated, without people who have vision and try, we wouldn't have what we have now in life.

Though 6500 SW is the standard here for comparison you'll see a variation of whites, not all are of course in the same ballpark, but you will see where pending the application you might choose one over the other.

I think at the end of the project, 1 year from now I will have a poll with different questions I'm going to guess there won't be one product choice pick over all others for related applications judging from the initial results right now.

You might see some edits done on this tutorial over the course an that is because information may/will change.

Every month power readings and light output readings will be added to this tutorial. Spectrometer reading will also be displayed through the course. Other tests may also be done not yet defined at this point. A picture will also be taken with the same settings and placement.



To visit the support topic for this Tutorial, CLICK on "Options" >"Visit Support Topic"

SIGN CABINET

• ABC Sign Products

LIGHT SOURCE PRODUCT LIST (Top to Bottom)

• GE Tetra Power White (12v) (*Non-Willing Participant)
• Sylvania HF2 Chain HE
• Elite Lamp Technologies Elite 65D Tri 13mm 30ma
• Phillips (24v)
• Eurocom LetraLED
• CAO LuxemBright (12v)
• Axiom AX-LE3 (14v)
• Axiom AX-LE7
• Ventex Venbrite (400v Class I)
• YYZ PowerStroke (12v)
• Borealis LED
• JT LED (*Non-Willing Participant)
• AVA Technologies
• EGL DL71 13mm 30ma
• AgiLight ThinRayz XTRA (12v)
• Sloan Great White 2 (*Non-Willing Participant)
• Sloan Great White 3 (*Non-Willing Participant)
• Permlight El Plato (*Non-Willing Participant)
• Permlight Nitros (*Non-Willing Participant)
• Aristo
• US LED Mega White Lightning (12v) (*Non-Willing Participant)
• US LED Quasar (*Non-Willing Participant)
• ElectraLED Flex (*Non-Willing Participant)
• EGL 6500 SW 15mm 30ma
• EGL DL71 15mm 60ma

ACRYLIC FACE LENS

SIGN COMPONENTS

• 1/8" Cyro #7328 White Acrylic Lenses
• CCFL Transformers- Ventex 4030/60CL

DURATION:

This project is never stopping, it runs 24/7/365.



First Picture Taken 10/23/08







Initial Power Draw (Watts) Slot renderings will be off due to the use of a flash













Judging from the current power readings at this time let's put these figures into a sign industry perspective. Let's take these individual slots of each vendor and propose a 15 letter sign using the same values and run 8 hours a day at $.095 a killowatt-Hr to show what a sign would cost a customer annually in comparison.

• GE Tetra ($55.48)
• Elite Lamp ($87.18)
• Phillips ($23.77)
• Sloan V-Series ($43.59)
• CAO LuxemBright($67.36)
• AXIOM ($75.29) 12v
• AXIOM ($91.15) Modified jump from 12v to 14.7v
• Ventex ($59.44)
• YYX ($51.52)
• EGL DL71 13mm ($87.18)
• AgiLight ($103.03)
• Sloan GW ($79.26)
• US LED MWL ($79.26)
• EGL 15mm 6500 ($79.26)
• EGL DL71 15mm 60ma ($146.63)

10/28/08

We'll be replacing the Sloan V-series with USLED Mega White Lightening since there is not enough contrast between the V-series and the GW modules.

10/29/08

Here are the initial light readings in Foot Candles or FC. I'm going to give you four numbers, Watts, FC Avg., FC High, FC Low, for each product. In the middle of each slot I have a rectangle drawn out (6" x 8") on the same location for all slots. Within this square I am getting my light readings, also within the square I mark where I have taken the High reading.



10/04/08

The Sloan LED V-Series & Great White have now been replaced with CAO's LuxemBright & US LED's Mega White Lightning due to the poor light output of the product.

Updated pics and reading are posted.







11/26/08



12/01/08

Well, I was about to post the new numbers until I hit a snag. I noticed some unusual drops of brightness with the neon sections depending on what time of day I took the measurements. Noon, 5pm & 11pm were all different, this surprises me for San Diego Weather and would have expected some differences somewhere with more extreme temperature changes.

Telford gave me a good idea about using a blow dryer to warm the neon sections and the FC's numbers went up. When I do the same to LED's, their FC's numbers dropped. So before I post new numbers up I'm going to have to take measurements in two or three separate categories of temperature. A warm climate & a cold climate, and maybe room temp.

Garret gave me the idea of using my Vortex tool into each section to measure the cold, I'll have to use a dryer for warm. I'm also going to have to go out and pick up a digital thermometer to make sure I get these the same.


12/01/08 B

This month we are seeing the initial lumen maintenance on the CCFL light sources and the drop in brightness. We are also seeing a few LED light sources drop as well

Here is the latest numbers along with the added section temperature. I picked up a simple thermometer from Bed Bath & Beyond, I took a measurement of each compartment as I took the light readings.

***This sheet has been revised (12/22/08) When I was calculating the Light drop percentage, I confused some of the FC AVG with some other FC numbers. Also I decided to added in the initial FC Average column numbers taken of each slot for comparison



I tried a few things and it was unpredictable using a hair dryer blowing hair into some of the compartments, maybe there is a way to control the higher temps more but here are some interesting figures when using a hair dryer to raise the temperatures.

When raising the temp in the Elite Lamps CCFL Section I got a high of 174+ FC with a temperature of 136 F. When again raising the temperature in Axioms section to approximately 138 F, the FC high was lowered to 114.

When I took a light reading of Elite Lamps section at about 6:00am it was quite cold in the room and the CCFL section had a FC high of 248. So you can see where this can be going how both CCFL & LED's relationship is with warmer or colder temperatures.

One thing I may do in the later months is blast both cold & warm air and take some measurements as a further test. We will surely see both CCFL & LED's brightness rise and fall.

Also, maybe for the next reading I will hook up one CCFL section to a magnetic tranny and see what the differences can be versus the use of a electronic transformer with the same temperature conditions.


12/8/08

Here is an updated picture to go with the recent new monthly reading to show changes made mainly with raising the voltage of Axioms LED modules from 14v to 14.7v, and to show the initial lumen maintenance for the CCFL sections.

Today the Agilight ThinRayz XTRA product line were sent back to the manufacturers lab so they can examine the problem on their product line with the rapid deterioration (34%) that occurred within 15-20 days or running. We should be getting a new string of the same product in by Wednesday of this week.




12/16/08

AgiLight ThinRayz XTRA modules placed back in. Initial readings at 76 F are, 117v, .20 amps, .23 watts, FC High 160, FC Low 144, Avg. FC 152


12/22/08

I just noticed I goofed up with some of the last readings in regards to "Light Drop". I have a feeling I mixed up some FC AVG numbers with FC HIGH's. I'll post the revision up above for 12/01/08 B. I will change it and note it above. The corrections are as follows. GE Dropped 1.7% instead of 1.2%, Elite dropped 10.4% instead of 11.6%, Axiom dropped .5% instead of .4%, YYZ dropped 10.4% instead of 11.6%, EGL DL 71 13mm 30ma dropped 11% instead of 12.3%, Agilight dropped 25.6% instead of 34.3%, EGL 6500 30ma dropped 10.9% instead of 12.2%, EGL 15mm DL71 60ma dropped 8% instead of 8.7%

Here is also something I also tried earlier in the morning. I hooked up Elite Lamps section which has a footage of 7.5' up to a France 3k/30ma PKMB magnetic transformer (Max 11' of 13mm). The result was a 9 FC increase when It over the length of an hour. The compartment temp was 79 F today. I'm going to put a small section on these reading as a modification so we can see both numbers under a SST and Magnetic transformer in next months readings.


1/4/09 *Updated Read Sheet 1/6/09

CCFL compartments temperatures dropped this month about 10 degrees Fahrenheit compared to last month, this is the coldest month to date for this project. The ambient temperature was 60.4 F at the time.

Latest Reading*




1/12/08

It was a little warmer today than usual so I took a quick light measurement.

The ambient temperature was 75.6F

The brightest CCFL section at 30ma (Elite Lamp) peaked at 259 FC, and the brightest LED section (Axiom) was 224 FC. what a change 10 degrees does from the last reading at the beginning of this month.


2/1/09

We're moving right along. This month and in the last few weeks of the month we were hit with some warmer than usual days, some Santa Ana's to be exact. We got some high FC reading out of the CCFL and slightly lower out of the LED compartments.

In this read sheet I added the % FC rise or drop from last weeks, I added in the 15 letter scenario and what that sign would cost a client to run at annually for 10 hours a day, and some basic individual component cost (this cost we can work on to perfect if needed). Since we're at the quarter of this comparison I might include a pic later.




2/9/09

Did a quick comparison between a Ventex CL 4030 and a France FerroMagnetic 3/30. It was a colder today than most days. The ambient temperature was 56.85 F




3/1/09

March Madness is here.

The short month has passed and a majority of light sources are just now a hair shy of 3k hours of operation.

This week I will most likely be replacing two compartments. I will be removing the Philips LED line since this low wattage product should have never been placed in this comparison in the fist place, so instead we will be transferring it to "The Great White Hope Project B", the second "worl" project. This cabinet or project will be better suited where the comparison is up against low and mid sized wattage. I have to say as an outsider looking in, for the LED products the Philips was the most consistent and even lit compartment, and brighter than some of the other product lines that were initially cut short. At .07 watts of power it was as bright as the Sloan Great White and brighter than the V-series with greater "Significant" power reduction.

We'll be replacing the YYZ System product with another line or manufacturer and definitely look for more from this manufacturer in the Project B.

The Replacements? A LED Line and a CCFL Lamp.

Here are the new Readings for the month of February


Updated Picture


Here is a 4 month comparison picture.
Pic 1. Oct. 24th 2008 From top to bottom slot 4 & 10 was Sloan V-Series and Great White. Those were replaced with Cao LuxemBright & USLED White Lightning.
Pic 2 is from November 4th 2008
Pic3. Dec 8th 2008
Pic 4 March 1st 2009



3/14/09

I have removed the Philips low wattage Affinium string and have inserted his big brother. I'll release those specs or a link as I get them. I will also update this block with a initial picture.




4/1/09
This is the 7th Evaluation period. Today, and the start of this month we removed the YYZ LED line and replaced it with Borealis LED, and the second week of the new Philips LED line. We will try the YYZ line again in our second GWH cabinet which should be completed by the end of this month, adding 12 more compartments of other high powered white LED manufacturer's.

Also, this month I am posting new cabinet photo's along with a light source exposed shot. A new category in the monthly evaluation is FC power per watt.

Light Source Reading:









5/11/09

It took me a little longer this month to get the cabinet and to the evaluations with my current work load but here e are nonetheless.

I'm also going to branch out this months evaluations with some specialty & new market acrylics for sign faces. I compared the OptixLD 7328, which is Plaskolites new impact modified acrylic specially made for LED channel letter signs to help disperse the pinpoint light. Cyro's Sign Flex & Satin Ice.

This month I also removed the Borealis LED line which wasn't anywhere near our projects 15mm snow white, which is our project standard. What I will do in turn is apply their product to the Project B.

I replaced the Borealis line with ElectraLED's "Flex", probably the largest and heaviest of all modules in our comparison. ElectraLED did not willingly want to participate in this comparison so I took the liberty of purchasing the product @ $18.99 per foot. Electra suggests 1 module per foot, but I think I need to make it 1.33 per foot to cover gaps between modules and order two more modules. Right now consider ElectraLED's Flex appearance, temporary.

With the month starting to heat up, we're seeing the LED's light output decrease either by temperature or depredation, at this point I'll say from temperature until we truly see otherwise. The CCFL compartments all took a slight jump in light output, it's safe to say from temperatures rising.


Okay, here's this months Reading.





We got the months readings, NOW here's where things get real interesting and this is something I've been wanting to do for a while but good things come for all those who wait. IN these pics below right to left is Optix LD, Cyro's Sign Flex White, Cyro's Satin Ice, Cyro's FF (Our Standard)

We just transformed our brightest sources into Super Hero's if we were to use Cyro's Satin Ice

Here's Elite Lamps CCFL turned into the Incredible Hulk.

We have a jump in light from our standard FF to Ice by +31.5% (331.5 FC AVG), +3.5% (235 FC AVG) using Sign Flex, and a -27.5% (164 FC AVG) using OptixLD. Elite's 30ma light source is putting out as much light as EGL's 60ma 15mm DL71's compartment




Here is Axiom LED turned Iron Man.

We have a jump in light from our standard FF to Ice by +30.40% (284.5 FC AVG) , +1.24% (200.5 FC AVG) using Sign Flex, and a -29.54% (139.5 FC AVG) using OptixLD. Axiom's Light source comes real close to EGL's 15mm DL71's compartment




Here is EGL's 60ma CL71 turned Thor, God of Lightning.

We have a jump in light from our standard FF to Ice by +31.58% (487.5 FC AVG) , +3.98% (347 FC AVG) using Sign Flex, and a -30.78% (231 FC AVG) using OptixLD. Axiom's Light source comes real close to EGL's 15mm DL71's compartment




It's nice seeing how other acrylic lenses compare other than a standard 7328 white sheet. Though Ice seems to be a real winner in light transmission & even dispersing the light, I wonder how it holds up to the elements? I'll me moving that lens over to our other tutorial "Electric Sign Faces" and see how it holds up compared to others over time. Does Satin Ice have a Kryptonite?

The only disadvantage of Cyro Ice right now that I know of is it's availability, good luck trying to obtain a sheet unless you want to purchase a whole pallet. I don't know of any suppliers who stock it, you need to either buy a case of 12, or pallet of 48. The price can go from $106 to $141.

Down the road we'll compare the Plexiglas version of Satin ice, and a few other vendors of acrylics and poly-carbonates to see how they compare too


6/10/09

This month we completed the second Great White Cabinet. We reactivated Sloan LED's Great White 2's, added Aristo, and Permlight El Plato's in Cabinet 2. In Cabinet 1 I added two more modules for Electra LED's Flex line, I originally added only 6 modules but noticed too much of a gap and dark spots noticeable on the face, in the manufacturers spec it lists to space the modules no more than 4" from one another, for this I had to add one more module per row which eliminated the dark gap between mods. I also updated the Foot Candles per watt figure as well this month

This is also now our ninth reading and coming close to our one year anniversary.

I will soon be making an additional category soon which will list individual specs of each product used here in this comparison

June 09 Reading:


Cabinet 1 & 2 shots


Shortly I will be updating some quick figures I got with using Plexiglas's equal to Cyro's Satin Ice as well.



7/6/09

We added Sloan LED's GW3 this month. I will be taking out Aristo's LED's as they are well below and don't meet the standard of 15mm 6500 lamp.

Also I have to note that I had to replace the Permlight El Plato with a new string. I did a big goof, with all compartments where I use a variable power source I preset the PS prior to loading, to 12vDC. I was wondering why this LED line was degrading so fast and in weeks. When I originally hooked up this string I forgot to preset the PS and measured the end of the string at 12.05vDC and closed the compartment up. When I re-evaluated the string I noticed the PS was at 12.76vDC unloaded, this particular product does not have current drivers on the boards, so this was most likely the culprit to the rapid degradation. I must note that this string with 6 modules there was about a 3/4 of a volt difference from the first module to the last, I don't know what part this can play in bigger cabinets and letters but I imagine there would have to be a lot of jumps within these compartments to keep from having too many dim spots. So to be fair I went ahead and got another El Plato string and re-did the compartment for this comparison. You will notice the initial drop in light from last month and the power consumption now that we have reset the PS to 12vDC and not the higher voltage.


So far to date this is the hottest month in ambient temps.



I will update with a new shot of the cabinet


8/11/09

This is clearly the hottest month to date in ambient & compartment temps.

Nothing new to report other than due to the temperatures, the LED light sources are greatly dropping with the CCFL liht sources taking a slight drop. We dropped the LED product Aristo, due to a non applicable power source and it couldn't keep up with the project standard of 15mm SW. Not only that, but the Vendor went astray.

NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: tempting
Revision: 8/17/09 4:08PM PST

9/16/09

Temperatures this month are a lot cooler in comparison to last month. Nothing had been added and nothing has been taken away. I will be looking at adding three or four more light sources later this month. I will be adding a Permlight product, a new USLED product and a CCFL lamp or two. There is a chance that Aristo might be coming back after their company has a new contact.

We are getting vary close to the first Anniversary of The Great White Hope, and many more to come. This project will only grow in time and serve as this boards standard of high powered white light sources

NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: quest
Revision: 9/16/09 12:01AM PST



9/25/09
The Ventex Power Source for the Venbrites failed today. I have to also not that this is their early on beta Power Sources and not the unit that came out in the market. So we'll be looking for a replacement asap.



10/28/09

8,760 hours and trucking along. I will update this months readings with some pictures from start, mid, to 1 year. This month the temps dropped a lot since last month so we see some of the CCFL compartments light output dropping and some of the LED's rising. In this next week I should be getting Permlight Nitro's & US LED's Quasar, Axiom AXL-7 LED's shipped in and I will add those and again update this entry for upcoming November. Once these are up that will begin our next months early readings.



NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: anouno
Revision: 9/30/09 08:05AM PST



11/09/09

I'm updating and following up with the one year picture of cabinet one and it's one year existence.

(Left to right)
Pic 1. Oct. 24th 2008 From top to bottom slot 4 & 10 was Sloan V-Series and Great White. Those were replaced with Cao LuxemBright & USLED White Lightning.
Pic 2 is from November 4th 2008
Pic3. Dec 8th 2008
Pic 4 March 1st 2009
Pic 5 November 2009





11/09/09


Today we added some more light sources to the line up. After much dancing around with JT LED & N.Glantz, we had to decline them as participants and buy our own JT LED's for this project. Other products are Permlight's Twister Nitro's and US LED's Quasar.

Also, we updated the Ventex Venbrites. A few months after I had put in the Venbrites (Which were the prototypes) they came out with their permanent products which we just now added. I have to say, these are the most foot candles per watt product added into the project to date.

I'm looking to add some CCFL lamps later this month hopefully.



NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: Turkey
Revision: 11/11/09 12:05AM PST



12/09/09

This is probably the coldest ambient temps we have had to date. We see a big drop for the CCFL light sources that are on 30ma systems and chunk from the 60ma systems. For the LED compartments we are seeing the rise in light output in most, and a continuance in drop from some.

This month we added Axiom's new AXLE-7 product line.

I have the initial update readings for the month right now, but will update the sheets with current pictures to follow.

Like always when looking at the charts and light output vs loss, keep in mind the operating hours of those products.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: santa claws
Revision: 12/14/09 06:30PM PST




1/12/10

Compared to last month all of a sudden the temps rose just about 20 degrees F to a typical San Diego day of 71 F. So from the this the CCFL compartments light output drastically went up and some of the LED modules went down, some more than others.

Nothing new other than the temperature affecting light.

In the next days or weeks we should be adding Eurocom's LED to the mix, and hopefully YYZ's power stroke by the end of the month, so look for that.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: wildcard
Last Revision: 1/12/10 11:34 PM




2/15/10

It was a little warm again this month so we see a month similar to last months readings.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: fat tuesday
Last Revision: 2/17/10 07:14 PM




3/10/10

This month is almost 10 degrees colder than last month, but again "wow" to see the Light products "CCFL" drop, and "LED's" rise in light output. We have seen this in seasons past before, but it's always so interesting to compare a month ago. It's going to start warming up here in San Diego soon enough, and we will be seeing the change in direction of the light products.

This month we added Sylvania, AVA Technology, Eurocom's Letro-LED


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: march mad
Last Revision: 3/11/10 01:05AM



4/10/10

Temperatures are starting to warm up and we should see a slow steady rise in temperature from here on out till fall. We will start to see the usual rise of all the CCFL products and the fall of the LED products.

Nothing added this month, I'm noticing that the AVA Technology line is starting to rapidly fail.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: april showers
Last Revision: 4/11/10 08:55PM




4/10/10

At the request of the AVA technologies we have pulled the current product out and sending it back to the manufacturer for further evaluation.




5/10/10

Temperatures again are slightly rising since last month. Nothing new other than AVA Technology gave us their 6500 white LED's instead of renewing their 8500 line. That officially starts today.

For the past month or two we have seen most light sources hit 70% light output, now it's a matter of which will drop, and which will plane out. We are seen 70% now on a mediocre ambient temperature of 75F at just under 14k hours of operation. We have seen claims this would not happen until 40k hours

I'm looking to add another line hopefully this month is all goes well


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: America
Last Revision: 5/11/10 09:15PM





6/17/10

Temperatures got a little cooler at the time of evaluations, a few degrees but again, interesting on what a few degrees can do to some products

I'm going to add the new GE Tetra PowerMax as soon as it comes out to market



NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: Lakers
Last Revision: 6/22/10 04:53PM


7/2/10

At some point in the night the Ventex SST went out for the EGL 6500 Compartment. I'll be replacing that today.





7/15/10

This is maybe the hottest month to date for the entire project. Today the ambient temp was 90F at waist level and 96F at the top of the cabinet. I think it's probably safe to say that we are looking at one, possibly two CCFL lamps in the process of "Super Nova'ing". Last month we saw the EGL 6500 light output rise to almost 9% less than when it originally started at the same time a Ventex SST went out as well, after replacing the SST, I'm now looking at a dim lamp with a significant light drop form compared to the previous drop.

I took some pics of the electrodes of suspect lamps, the Elite 65D, EGL 6500 15mm, EGL DL71 15mm/60ma lamp.

On the LED front, I have the new GE TetraMax White on order and will most likely boot out the Philips or USLED line to make room for this.

Pic #1 Elite 65D



Pic #2 EGL 6500



Pic #3 EGL DL71 60ma (1 of 2)



Pic #4 EGL DL71 60ma (2 of 2)




NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: vegas
Last Revision: 7/15/10 5:06PM



8/21/10

Compartment temperatures are not like the previous month, but compartment temps are still very warm. Humidity has been in the 40%-50% range.

Still waiting on GE to release their GE TetraMax White retail version so we can pop them in as soon as they come. We may have a surprise vendor enter the testing to be known as "Brand X" that will be unnamed until their official release and announcement.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: preseason
Last Revision: 8/22/10 9:35AM



9/12/10

This very odd San Diego weather which never had a summer is about 20 degrees cooler since last months evaluations.

Later this month we might be adding Relume, and Agilight.


NEW Analysis CLICK HERE
PASSWORD: nfl
Last Revision: 9/12/10 4:43PM



THIS WILL NOW CONTINUE IN THE GREAT WHITE HOPE PROJECT YEARS 3 & 4
http://www.thesignsy...-hope-year-3-4/