eugene@signmakershc.com

BAR STOOL ECONOMICS Suppose that every day, ten men go out for a beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1.00 The sixth would pay $3.00 The seventh would pay $7.00 The eighth would pay $12.00 The ninth would pay $18.00 The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.00 So that’s what they decided to do. The men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with arraignment, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers, he said, I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.00. “Drinks for the ten men now cost just $80.00 The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $ 20 windfall so that everyone would get there “fair share?” They realized that $ 20.00 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay! And so: The fifth man like the first four, now paid nothing ( 100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of 12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid 14 instead of 18 (22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before! And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20“ declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right, shouted the seventh man. “why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in union. “ We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalist and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

Wish I had known that someone else was building my business for me. I wouldn't have worked so many 16 hour days. If I had only known, I could have been drinking beer and laying by the pool.

Even if you find qualified help it seems they can't be satisfied. I don't know about everyone else, but the last 3 or 4 years have been pretty lean. We started 2008 like a house afire and at the end of August we were way ahead of our previous best year. But by mid September it all started to go to hell, by years end we were off 25% in sales. 2009 found us down another 10%. In 2010 we rebounded to abour where we were in 2007 and things were looking good, I thought we had turned the corner. Boy was I wrong, 2011 was the worst year I've ever had, and sales were down to about 2004 levels dollar wise. I lost 40 grand last year and now I've got employees grumbling that they are not satisfied with their pay, need more paid time off, etc. During all of this I did not lay any one off and made sure they all got at least 40 hours per week. I had a stretch where me and my wife could have done it all by ourselves and wouldn't have been busy, we went 3 weeks without rolling our bucket truck and over 2 months without rolling the crane. Because at the first of last year it looked like things were improving I booked an all expenses paid 7 day cruise for my staff and their significant others, I also gave them a vacation bonus, and they get a Christmas bonus of $100 for every year they been with me. This bonus is net, I pay the taxes so they get the full amount. I also pay half of their medical insurance and they have a paid retirement plan. My employees also get incentive bonuses every quarter if we meet our sales targets. Even though we lost money last year, we had a really good 4th quarter, so in January they got their bonus. Although things are much better this year so far, I still haven't made it into the black yet this year, and I have to make 40 grand in profit just to get back to where I was January 1 of 2011. I tried to explaining this to them, but it doesn't seem to register. My top paid guy takes home $150 less every two weeks than I do, but he only works 40 hours for his, I never work less than 70 hours a week. Sometimes I just want to say !#$% it all, shut the doors and go home. Don't get me wrong all of my employees are not this way. But I really get tired of the ungratefulness. Does anyone else have this problem? How do you deal with it.

I've been charging a fuel surcharge for almost 2 years. I have it built into my software (Cyrious), although you can do the same with an excel chart. I have my fuel cost per gallon in 25 cent increments, and my mileage in 10 mile increments up to 50 miles, then I have them in 25 mile increments. I have two trucks, one a bucket truck that gets about 7 mpg and a 23.5 ton crane that gets about 3 mpg. I have a different chart for each truck. I started my baseline fuel cost at $3.00 per gallon (my hourly rate is still what is was when fuel was less than $3.00). If you do a lot of service the additional fuel costs add up quick. At current fuel cost < 4.25 a gallon, for a hundred mile round trip I get an additional $41.70 for my crane and $17.90 for my bucket truck. I didn't raise my hourly rates because for installs it can sometimes really drive the cost up, especially if you are there all day.

I agree, good people to work for.

Chubby, I agree, just finished reading this myself. The one thing that the associations can do is studies that the individuals or small companies could never do. This information can be valuable in fighting "City Hall". I presented information from ISA and USSC on the last re-write of our local ordinance, and I think it did sway some of the policies. Although we can all agree that the associations are not all they could be, they provide some much needed information such as this and a somewhat united front. It is necessary to remember that all of this is provided by dues paying members and even companies that aren't members benefit from this. Although to some on this site it might seem an act of treason, I am a member of both the ISA and USSC. If everyone was to pull their membership because they don't agree 100% with what goes on, the sign industry would be losing some valuable information provided by these associations and much needed unity. One of the things that has always hurt the industry is a lack of unity, it seems to be each man for himself, no one wants to share or help someone else because they are afraid they might lose a customer. Even the industry rags provide a service, although a lot of BS to sift through, there is good information there. And we have to remember they are businesses too, and are going to promote those that make them sucessful. How many of use make and install signs for businesses or individuals that don't want to pay for them (other than charities that we choose to work for). I know i'm going to expend my energy and do work for those that make me sucessful. Just my 2 cents worth.

We have supplied company cell phones for several years and told our employees they were for their use 24/7. We even told them they could cancel their personal cell phones if they chose. We tell the employees that they are to be used during work hours for company business only (personal use within reason, we don't get stupid about it). We get detailed billing on all our cell phones and I scan them each month (don't look at each call, just looking for something out of the ordinary). They are also instructed as to what our plan minutes are and when our unlimited nights and weekends apply. If they go over the minutes, they pay for it, if it is personal. I can usually tell if someone is spending too much time on the phone by how much work is being billed. We have had abuses, and we deal with that on a case by case basis. I had one employee (now former) that was spending alot of time on the phone, his co-worker even complained about it to me. I told him to curtail the personal business on my dime. He told me I didn't have a right to monitor his phone usage, even though I paid for the phone. He told me he would use his personal phone and then I wouldn't be able to monitor his use. I told him all personal cell phones were banned from company property, trucks and work sites. He informed me I didn't have the right to do this, that he could use his phone if he damned well pleased. Needless to say he can now talk on his phone all he wants, but he no longer gets a paycheck from me. I would be careful with smart phones, just alot more ways to abuse the priviledge.

I have owned both of these and currently we run SignLab. We changed over to SignLab several years ago when we got our first large format printer. Gerber used to be so proprietary, didn't work well with others. I think they have improved that in the last few years. When we first changed to SignLab it did a much better job of importing different file types and it would drive everyones plotters and printers. It would even drive the Gerber Edge just fine. SignLab will even open files that Illustrator has trouble with and will open native Gerber .plt files. It is different from Omega, although I haven't seen the newer versions of Omega, both are good programs, and there are features of each that I like better. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.

I've been using QuickBooks for 13 years without problems. You do have to upgrade every 3-4 years, but then what software doesn't require this. I've never had any problems with crashing, and I think it's fairly easy to use. I don't know about high volume, don't really know what would be considered high volume. We write 3-4 thousand invoices per year and that hasn't been problematic. Just over two years ago we bought Cyrious software to do our invoicing and estimating, but still use QB for accounts payable and accounting functions. Cyrious is a very time intensive program to set up, I spent over 3 months working on it, and still found lots of things I missed or did wrong when we went online. It does make your estimating very professional looking, estimates are the same regardless who does them, and updating material or labor prices is very easy and quick. It is a very expensive program, and you really need a dedicated server to run it. I have 4 licenses and the cost was over $8000, plus I had to buy a server. Just my 2 cents worth.

Guy's I'm in central Kentucky and its deader than 4 o'clock here. 2008 was down, 2009 was awful, then had my best year ever in 2010. But 2011 is looking like a repeat of 2009 right now. Sales are off over 30%, phones aren't ringing. I'm a full service shop, we have a vinyl shop and we do outdoor electric. Usually if one shop is slow the other is busy and its not quite so hard to take. For the last three weeks there is nothing going on, I'm in the red for the year. We aren't even turning payroll right now (there are 6 of us). Luckily, I'm debt free both personally and professionally, so I can wait it out. But it's still a little scary, even after being in this business for 13 years. Can't win any bids, my competitors are giving it away. I won't do a job for break even. Had a potential customer email me today on a estimate I did for her, said my competitor's bid was less than half my bid. The total bid was $1300 and change, and of that $150.00 was for permit, $187.50 for labor to change the face, the rest for white flat polycarb face with 4 colors of translucent vinyl (4' x 12'). If I did it for my competitors price I would have had to pay her $200 to the job for her. Know they can't be using quality materials or they would have the same costs as me. I won't drop my quality to sell the shit they do. I'd rather go out of business than sell junk. Of course alot of today's customers don't care about anything but the cost, quality doesn't matter, most won't be in business a year from now anyway. I guess all we can hope for is that the economy turns around soon. Doubt that it will happen quickly, not with the clowns we have in Washington running the show.

Been using Bosch for the last 13 years. Best power of all I've tried. Good battery life. We use the 14.4V, comes in 3/8" and 1/2" chucks. The 14.4V is more powerful than the 12V and considerably lighter.

I have a Gerber Edge (printhead less than 100 hours), Gerber HS15 plus plotter (tangential & drag knives), 50+ Gerber & Zero Nine foils, Gerber Omega 2.1 software (completely legal with security key), 2 vinyl roll holders, extra blades for the plotter, 3 AB swithces (so plotter & edge can be hooked up to more than 1 computer), custom built table to hold EDGE, Plotter and Foils. Asking $4000.00 for all. Also have a Gerber Envision 750 that I'm asking $750.00. Call 270-234-6632.

Stay the hell away from them. They have always been slow to pay, and have gotten even worse. They want you to finance their operation, want you to cut them a deal on price, then take forever to pay, and refuse to pay finance charges. Nothing but a bunch of deadbeats.

My wife and I are coming to the show. Planning on taking in about 3 seminars each.

Hell they don't want to pay period. They want to argue about price after the job is over. Well, why would they want to argue about price beforehand? I fired this customer a couple of years ago. They never paid me unless I called. Didn't matter if I called at 30 days or 180 days I would get a check in about a week. Went almost 8 months one time without calling just to see if they would pay without the call, never did. I've got better things to do than call all of these deadbeats, they know they owe you, just too damn sorry to pay you. If everyone would stick together and refuse to work for these assholes, they would either shape up or go out of business.

What does everyone use the most of for sign faces? Impact modified acrylic or polycarbonate? We have used polycarbonate almost exclusively for the last 5 years, but we are getting our butt kicked on price right now. Just curious what everyone else is using. What do you get average per square foot price?

I have done some installs on Papa John's and the ones I did were manufactured by Persona.

Highvoltage, Do you have a router or a high frequency spindle? What about hold down?

What type of CNC router do you have? Would you recommend it for purchase? Do You have an automatic tool changer? Is it worth the cost?

If you are located in the Southeast you can use Industrial Plastics 931-678-4613. They are located in Gainesboro, TN. Don't know how far North they go, but they do come to central KY. I have a small bin they provided (10 x 10), and I usually get about $130.00 when they pick it up.

Just wondering how business is for everyone out there. It sucks here. We were off 15% last year from 2007. As of end of business yesterday we were off 44% from 2008 on that date. We started the slide in August 2008, picked up some in May/June but nowhere near what it used to be. We are still okay financially, the business is debt free, personally only owe for the building the sign shop is in (only 4 more months of payments). Can't imagine what it's like for businesses that owe the bank a large sum. On the vinyl side, alot of our business is related to the real estate market, realtors, contractors, etc. and the housing market is in the tank. Our electric sign work is down just because there is no new businesses opening. Service work is way down too, everybody holding onto their money. The only installs we're doing for the national companies are motel logo changes, don't know how much more there is of that work coming. We've probaly done more removals for businesses going out this year than we have in the past 5 years combined. Is it like this all over? I know it will get better, just don't know how long it will be before that happens. I'm afraid the turn-around may be a ways off.

W can only hope that the new NEC does away with this grounding requirement for LED letters in the next edition, just not necessary for this voltage. My local inspector is not a hardass (actually really easy to work with), but the code is the code. I hate to put holes in the tops of the letters, just another place for moisture to get in. When we work for some of the national companies, they require conduit thru the wall, and the ground ring. I've used these several times, but can't find a vendor now that has any in stock.

I'm not adding a secondary ground. When using LED (Tetra), the wires do not jump from one letter to the next, but all return to the power supply. Typically, short pieces of flex are used for thru the wall, the flex is not extended all the way to the power supply (in transformer box). Instead, a ground ring is put on the flex connector, all of the ground rings are wired together then a wire is run to the transformer box to supply a ground for all of the letters.

Does anyone have a vendor for the ground rings you attach to the flex connector on 1/2 conduit so that LED letters can be grounded? In the past I have bought them from N. Glantz, but they are out and don't know when they will get more. I've tried several sign supply companies and they don't even know what I'm talking about. What is everyone else doing to ground their LED channel letters? I buy mine wholesale from Dwayne Clein, so they come prewired. According to code the letters must be grounded. I find it hard to believe that the sign suppliers don't stock these.

I have also bid multiple locations for multiple companies, and so far have received only one job. They seem to want to really get the install bid down low. I bid one project for $18,900 that included a high rise change out with welding, remove four sets of letters, patch and paint, and install three new sets of letters, remove and replace four directionals. They sent me a P.O. for $15,000, and were suprised I wouldn't sign it. They said we weren't far apart on numbers, I think 25% is a fairly large difference. I split the difference with them (wouldn't normally do that, but we were tired of standing around looking at each other), then find out from the customer that they were billed almost $28,000 for the install. They net over $11,000 for doing nothing, wish I could have netted half that. I have been working for the owners of this HIE for over ten years, motels, strip centers, etc. I evaluated the bids they received for this project, and recommended the company that got the job, even though they weren't the low bidder. You would think they would appreciate this and not cut me so low on the install. Seems everyone is trying to cut out our profit, every thing I bid for national companies, they come back with a request for a better price. This never use to happen, and I got a large portion of what I bid. I know my expenses haven't gone down, and I haven't raised prices in two years (not even when fuel went thru the roof last year).