signman12

Be careful with Action, they like to short you ever chance they get. Make sure you secure your terms upfront, they like to pay you based on mapquest's suggested time to the site and what ever the manager said your service guy was on site. I got paid for 25 mins on a mall service call. We have a two hour minimum.

sounds like you do think LED's are perfect for everything It's a figure of speach, not to be taken literally. Our plant is used mostly for repair now. I am sold on LED's for 90% of signs that use neon and 50-75% for cabinets. I've done the math on my shop time, service in the field and the profit margin and it was not a hard sell, that's for sure. I'm not a neon hater, I know it will never be totally replaced, (at least I hope not) the look of a well designed and implimented open channel or design sign is a thing of beauty. Where applicable, I beleive LED is the better choice. Also, my neon guy is much happier not bending glass, even though he deals with permits now.

For those of who keep disputing the savings and ability for LED to keep up with neon and Florescent, WAKE UP!! LED's are here and they're going to become, if they have not already, the dominant lighting source for our industry. The scales are tipping and the buzz words flying and once that train gets rolling you can either get on board or stand in the way, and as a hint THE TRAIN WINS. Look at the progress in the last year and the few before that for LED's and the number of companies embracing the technology. Once the EPA completes the ban on Mercury Vapor lamps, do you think that neon is far behind? Are LED's perfect for all apps? Of course not, but neither is neon or Florescent. MY neon plant sits in the corner with my 8-track, Beta and laser disk.

Thanks for posting this. I have a project in the works right now that this would be perfect for. Ill let you know what evolves. Josh

Does anyone know of a solar panel system that would work directly with the LEDs power requirements rather than using an inverter? It would be much more efficient in my opinion to collect, store and then use the power as 12v directly. Either that or maybe a power supply with a 12v input? I've been quoting all new signs, especially freestanding with an option for solar panels and LED lighting. I've only had one accept the option, but it's better than none.

Exposed to physical damage is open to the inspectors interpretation. You know Pines, and both Kay and AJ approve of using 14ga copper without conduit as long as the jacket is rated for direct sun exposure or plennum rated use for wiring were the back wall is above a drop ceiling or interior of the store. If you know AJ he's by the book.

I signed up for Nationals program and have been very disappointed. It's impossible to log in and once you do, they have nothing listed in any state for any type of project. If I could, I'd get my money back and spend it at the bar. At least there I could see where my money went even if I couldn't remember. Josh

Looks like a typical South Florida Install!! Boots intead of fed bushings, bear GTO in a wood crawl space, simply amazing the lengths people will go to save a buck. This is partly why my quote is "WOW, everyday, just WOW!" Josh

AMEN brother. I was in tizzy when finshed that article, almost fell of the bowl! I spent years working to earn the right jsut to apply for a license, and now their preaching to every yahoo to go and sell electric signs without an ounce of know how. I'm not saying that they can't ever go from vinyl shop to electric shop because I did, but not by posing as a contractor. Contracting is simply defined as negotiating, and accepting work where a license is required. This should be done by licensed companies. If they want to turn over a lead for a commission, no problem, but don't encourage unlicensedcontracting, here in Florida it's a felony punishable upto 5 years in prison and a $100,000 if violate article 486.17 of the state code.

I bid on an installation with ImageWorks in South Carolina, check with them.

You can run the ground wire in the same flex and through the same hole as the LED wire, and it can remain exposed in the wall without conduit or even a plastic jacket. The ground rings are an Electrobits product so maybe call them directly for a spplier with inventory. I heard that Electrobits was "reorganizing," not sure if this is true or not. When some of the cities down here in Florida require that low voltage systems require ground, despite the 411 code where it states that nothing less than 60v's shall be grounded, we use a terminal bar and bring all the grounds back to a common bar and then back to the house ground. This is only required if we don't use metallic flex, which bonds the letters as long as all contacts are metal to metal and jump together in some way back to the can. I agree that ground low voltage is a waste but te inspectors need something to gripe to about and God forbid you express your knowledge of your choosen profession. As I always say, those who can do, those who can't work for the city!!!

I agree that something is missing from the equation, but if it is how you said it is, the first thing is to hire an attorney. If you paid the guy and he hasn't done what you paid him for the only way to get your money back is with a suit against him or the bond, if he has one. Most states on the East don't require them. I don't fully agree with the "payment once finals are done" concept seing as how 90% of what we do is installations for other national companies and we group the inspections together. You should in future have a protocol for paperwork, and require certain documents before full and final payments are made. We submit photos, front and back of the wall, sign lit, copies of the permit and receipts, as well as a client sign off sheet to verify the work was done to the end users satisfaction with every project. Going to the board that licenses' this company is definately and option, but I found here in Florida that they do little to nothing about helping. Good luck.

I bet that truck made a lot of money for someone, It would be good to see it restored, but whose got that kind of time. Josh

Even though the time for liens has come and gone, filing one will still cloud their title and they will have to prove that the lien is invalid. We also created a "repo" letter that we use when were not paid. We simply remove the sign, post the letter with the invoices for the primary balance, interest due, the cost for removal and the terms to re-install the sign. Most people are not aware of the laws regarding signs and their attachment to the building and everyone assumes that since they are lease hold improvements they can not be removed if you are not paid. This is not entirely factual. Furthermore, if you remove the sign, they can not have you arrested, they need to file a civil suit. Imagine how it would look at any stage of a suit that you have unpaid invoices and removed the signs since they weren't paid for? No one wants to sue or be sued, so use this to your advantage to get paid. They are a bog company and think they can force you to suck wind on your money.