good points Gerald........our suppliers are going above and beyond the norm, some not at all. my position with those guys and i have told them, those of you who understand and helping all that they can will be the vendors i use long after these times have passed, those who don't, not so much.........one thing that i have been utilizing is going to seconds on my alum sheets. Mainly, it's just water damage but, at half the price. it does take a little more prep time but, the savings can't be ignored. Also, our paint department is not as efficient as i would like so i go to pre-paint as much as i can.......now, lets talk about the art dept.........i redline just about every drawing that comes across my desk..........