advocate

I had absolutely no problems with MET labs contacting me. Their rates are lower than UL and they actually explain issues to you when they inspect. Since UL went to a for profit format company I believe they should absolve themselves of creating additional standards and open this up to free enterprise as well...or stop listing products based on their own standards. Can't you see a little conflict here? I would much rather NFPA handle the safety and standards issue when it coms to electrical signs. The NEC is functionally more important for the protection of person and property since most listed products are only as safe as the methods used to install them. There are at least 7 National Recognized Testing Labs. ETL and Met are good choices to start with for making comparisons. I found MET to be the best choice for the Austin, TX area (within a 100 mile radius) of my locations

Megavolt512 and West Coast Sign Guy...My final comment on this issue...I AGREE!!!

You are right...who wouldn't want additional sales people out there selling a product that the licensed sign contractor would get the install for and perhaps even the manufacturing of the sign. Its not about the value of the sell...its about the accountability of the seller to the end user and the other ingredients of the sign package that worries most of us. You mentioned engineering, tube bending and excavation as items the licensed contractor often subs out. This is true, however he assmes responsiblilty for these subs by virtue of his liability and license. He has a traceable license number that attaches to most advertisement, identification documents, bids, proposals, invoices and business cards. The end user has absolutely no problem identifying to TDLR who the seller is and who is the responsible party is in case of a complaint to TDLR. This is not the case with an individual, agent or company selling a turnkey electrical job or electrical sign job without a license or method of identification. There is absolutely no way to properly identify the seller except by putting the licensed contractors license number on the final invoice. NOW, you have just shifted all responsibility to the licensed contractor, deserving it or not. The Representative who authored this bill was offered 4 different substitutes to help identify the seller and require a minimum amount of assumed liability in the event of a problem with an area other than the actual electrical installation and they were all ignored. In addition most jurisdictions require a licensed contractor to pull the permits. So this responsibility issue should be resolved to a degree that the local jurisdictions and TDLR has a tracking mechanism for the persons or company responsible for ALL aspects of the contract. When a contractor puts together bids for a home he is bidding on more than one trade...HVAC, Plumbing, Foundation, Electrical, Roofing etc. If he only bids on one trade and that trade requires a license then that contractor should be licensed in that trade. Since he assumes the responsibility for each sub contractor, the jurisdiction has a tracking mechanism when he pulls the building permit and each sub pulls their permits. Now you have a record of the responsible party in each case where a license is required. You even have a responsible party for those unlicensed trades through the general. I guess if a person feels like they want to be responsible for something outside of their control or for someone elses mistakes... I can only say, good luck.

The master electrician and the master sign electrician are individual license holders. A licensed electrical contractor or a licensed electrical sign contractor is the license an individual company must have in order to offer to perform or to perform electrical work or electrical sign work. To secure this contractors license an individual master electrician or master sign electrician must serve as the master of record for the company and this licensed individual is responsible for the electrical work or electrical sign work performed by the licensed contractor. All individual licensees must work for a licensed contractor in order to do electrical work or electrical ign work. Freelancing (as some might call it) is not allowed. The reason of course is that individuals are not required to carry liability insurance but the licensed contractor is, so the end user is protected. Hope this helps

SORRY THIS IS SO LONG BUT YOU DESERVE SOME ANSWERS... 1. Texas does not prohibit the sell of listed electrical equipment (including signs) 2. Texas does require an electrical contractors license or an electrical sign contractors license to offer to perform electrical sign work or to perform electrical sign work as these terms are defined in either the Law Chapter 1305 or the Administrative Rules Chapter 73 (This has been explained by leagal counsel at TDLR as offering a turnkey price for a sign with installation) or in other words contracting or offering to perform these services as a contracted price. 3. Texas requires some responsibility and liability on the part of its licensed contractors by requiring a minimum amount of insurance and assurances to the end user and to the contractors employees that the contractor is financially responsible in an approved manner. 4. Texas does not make It difficult to become a licensed electrical sign contractor. a. carry a minimum of liability insurance ($600,000 aggregate) and workers comp. or provide evidence of financial responsibility as provide for in other statues. (I suspect this is far exceeded by most electrical contractors and electrical sign contractors) b. pay a license fee of $115.00 annually (hardly a huge amount even for a small company or individual) c. employ a master electrician or master sign electrician to serve as your master of record (*keep in mind this person can be full time, part time or seasonal depending on the amount of electrical sign contracting you want to perform) 5. I suspect the reasons that agents, individuals and companies want to be exempted from the Texas Electrical Sign Contracting law has mostly to do with not wanting to pay the same workers comp rates as those of us that are licensed, not adding an employee where they must follow the laws governing withholding and social security and they want a method that releaves them of responsibility to follow the Law and rules, not be ultimately held responsible for a failure that might occur as a result of faulty specifications, inadquate structural planning or a warranty issue involving the product they sold. You see...TDLR has no way to trace this type of activity. 6. Of course there is always the economic side of an issue. I ask you; is it better for the customer to be quoted a price which includes a markup from a licensed sub-contractor or is it better for the customer to buy a competitive product on the open market and secure their own competitive installation price. NOW THAT SHOULD BE A NO BRAINER... Here are the Laws and Rules that apply to most of my comments and thoughts. Sec. 1305.002. Definitions. (9) "Electrical sign contracting" means the business of designing, manufacturing, installing, connecting, reconnecting, or servicing an electric sign, cold cathode, neon gas tubing, or outline gas tubing, or altering electric sign wiring or conductors either inside or outside of a building. (10) "Electrical sign contractor" means a person engaged in electrical sign contracting. (11) "Electrical work" means any labor or material used in installing, maintaining, or extending an electrical wiring system and the appurtenances, apparatus, or equipment used in connection with the use of electrical energy in, on, outside, or attached to a building, residence, structure, property, or premises. The term includes service entrance conductors as defined by the National Electrical Code. Sec. 1305.102. Rules. (a) The executive director shall adopt rules for the licensing of electricians, sign electricians, electrical sign contractors, electrical contractors, residential appliance installers, and residential appliance installation contractors as prescribed by this chapter. (b) The executive director by rule shall prescribe descriptions of the types of activities that may be performed by each class of license holder under this chapter. © The executive director by rule shall adopt standards of conduct requirements for license holders under this chapter. (d) The commission may adopt rules regarding the registration of apprenticeship training programs and to require registered programs to report the names of persons enrolled in the programs. Sec. 1305.160. Electrical Sign Contractor. (a) An applicant for a license as an electrical sign contractor must: (1) be licensed under this chapter as a master sign electrician or employ a person licensed under this chapter as a master sign electrician; (2) establish proof of financial responsibility in the manner prescribed by the executive director; and (3) maintain workers' compensation coverage for the contractor's employees through an insurance company authorized to engage in the business of insurance in this state or through self-insurance, or elect not to obtain workers' compensation coverage, as provided by Subchapter A, Chapter 406, Labor Code. (b) A person who holds a master sign electrician license issued or recognized under this chapter may only be assigned to a single electrical sign contractor, unless the master sign electrician owns more than 50 percent of the electrical sign contracting business. ELECTRICIANS Administrative Rules of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation 16 Texas Administrative Code, Chapter 73 73.10. Definitions. (3) Employee--An individual who performs tasks assigned to him by his employer. The employee is subject to the deduction of social security and federal income taxes from his pay. An employee may be full time, part time, or seasonal. (4) Employer--One who employs the services of employees, pays their wages, deducts the required social security and federal income taxes from the employee’s pay, and directs and controls the employee’s performance. (12) Electrical Sign Contractor--A person, or entity, licensed as an electrical sign contractor, that is in the business of performing "Electrical Sign Contracting" as defined by Texas Occupations Code, §1305.002(9). (13) Master Sign Electrician--An individual, licensed as a master sign electrician, who, on behalf of an electrical sign contractor, performs "Electrical Sign Work" as defined in paragraph (18). (18) Electrical Sign Work--Any labor or material used in manufacturing, installing, maintaining, extending, connecting or reconnecting an electrical wiring system and its appurtenances, apparatus or equipment used in connection with signs, outline lighting, awnings, signals, light emitting diodes, and the repair of existing outdoor electric discharge lighting, including parking lot pole lighting. This also includes the installation of an electrical service integral to an isolated sign and/or outline lighting installation. (25) Offer to perform--To make a written or oral proposal, to contract in writing or orally to perform electrical work or electrical sign work, to advertise in any form through any medium that a person or business entity is an electrical contractor, electrical sign contractor, or residential appliance installation contractor or that implies in any way that a person or business entity is available to contract for or perform electrical work, electrical sign work, or residential appliance installation work. (26) Electro Mechanical Integrity--The condition of an electrical product, electrical system, or electrical equipment installed in accordance with its intended purpose and according to standards at least as strict as the standards provided by the National Electrical Code, the manufacturer's specifications, any listing or labeling on the product, and all other applicable codes or ordinances. 73.52. Electrical Sign Contractors’ Responsibilities. (a) An Electrical Sign Contractor shall: (1) notify the department when a new master electrician or master sign electrician of record is assigned to the contractor and notify the department within thirty business days from the date that the master electrician's employment with the contractor ended; (2) maintain employee records and records of all work performed on its behalf for a period of four years after completion of the work, and shall make those records available to the department at the contractor’s place of business during normal business hours for inspection and copying. If the contractor’s principal place of business is located out of the state of Texas, the department may require the contractor to make records available to the department at its offices in Austin, Texas or another location agreed upon by the department and the contractor. (b) A person or contractor that performs or offers to perform electrical sign contracting shall: (1) provide safe and proper installation and service, and assure the electro-mechanical integrity of all work and installations are to code; (2) not misrepresent the need for services, services to be provided, or services that have been provided; (3) not make a fraudulent promise or false statement to influence, persuade, or induce an individual or an entity to contract for services; and (4) ensure that all of an electrical sign contractor’s non-exempt electrical work shall be performed by licensed individuals. © The design of an electrical sign shall only be done by a licensed master electrician, master sign electrician, or design professional as authorized by statute. The design shall not be subcontracted to an unlicensed person, firm or corporation. (d) A licensed electrical sign contractor shall display its name and license number on both sides of each vehicle owned or operated by the business and used in the conduct of electrical work. Lettering shall be of a contrasting color and at least two inches in height. The license number shall be preceded by the letters “TSCL”. (e) All advertising by electrical sign contracting companies designed to solicit electrical business shall include the electrical sign contractor’s name and license number. This includes business cards. The following advertising does not require the license number: (1) nationally placed television advertising, in which a statement indicating that license numbers are available upon request is used in lieu of the electrical sign contractor license number; (2) telephone book listings that contain only the name, address, and telephone number; (3) manufacturers’ and distributor’s telephone book trade ads identifying an electrical contractor; (4) telephone solicitations, provided the solicitor states that the contractor complies with licensing requirements of the state. The electrical sign contractor’s number must be provided upon request; (5) promotional items of nominal value such as ball caps, tee shirts, and other gifts; and (6) signs located on the contractor’s permanent business location. (f) The electrical sign contractor’s name, address, phone number, and license number shall appear on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts from the contractor. The following information: “Regulated by The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, P. O. Box 12157, Austin, Texas 78711, 1-800-803-9202, 512-463-6599; website: www.license.state.tx.us/complaints” shall be listed on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts. (g) A licensed electrical sign contractor and its designated master electrician or master sign electrician of record is responsible for supervision of all licensees performing work on behalf of the contractor to assure compliance with applicable statutes and rules and in particular, standards of conduct set out in this chapter. (h) An electrical sign contractor shall not use a license that is not assigned to that contractor.