ETX_LED_GUY
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Never tried to peddle anything. If someone asks, them I'll tell them whats out there & where they can source it. If you want it, great, you'll find a way to get it, if you don't you won't. At the end of the day it doesn't bother me one bit. Go ahead & say my name, just be sure you also tell these fine folks on the forum you thought a magnetic transformer was cost prohibitive for LED's, never saw it used it the field, & also didn't know an LED could be powered at AC current. So you like calling people out? That's what this forum is about? Be sure & tell them what you didn't know about LED's. Back to The Drake, this thread is over a year old. I'd like to know how that Sloan product is holding up being that this is a fair, informative place to share information on the WWW. If it were my building I would have left the neon alone, as I have also stated. End of story.
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Never said we were "good friends". I did however talk to him over the phone several years ago & he said he'd show me how to bend neon for a little lunch money. Why not say his name? I thought you wanted this to be an "open forum"? Amazing how the tables can turn so quickly huh? Thanks, you're just reiterating what I've been saying all along. If its not the kind of responses you want to hear then I'll gladly leave or you can gladly ban me. Again, I never discounted neon. In fact, I love it. So stop trying to twist my words & everything is gravy. Capiche?
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Hey Mark! Whats goin' on bud? Never heard back from you on the theme park deal so I figured you weren't interested any longer or just too swamped. I never said LED's were superior, what I did say is each has their time & place. While neon may not be good for one application it may be good for another & vice versa. I've personally witnessed LED's that have been up & burning for 15-20 years without interruption of service which brings me to ask you how many Honda Accords do you see from the early 90's with the red LED's still going strong on the rear spoiler. Those are 12 volts & out in the elements. As a certified mechanic I see it all the time. Never once have I had to replace an LED on a car, never.
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Could have fooled me. Says it in his profile. I'm sure he's done electric signs as well. Not doubting that. Long time member? Oh that's cool, but means nothing, really. I'm sure there are a lot of people that sign up here out of curiosity, find out its gimmicky at the core & never post or sign in again. Its just the way forums like this work. You hardcore neon guys act like neon is the answer to everything when its not...neither is LED. Depends on the application, operating environment, etc. etc. Your neon, out in the real world, doesn't last in the frequent hail storms & vortex winds up on a 70 story building, much less at ground level. You neon guys can't change your entire theme at the swipe of a smart phone button. Technology is leaving you in the dust, bud. You either pony up or you fall by the wayside. This board is obviously very click-ish & unwelcoming to new members, especially the LED guys you deem as "a threat to your industry". I love neon & love seeing it used in certain applications, but again, its not the answer to every application, especially applications that call for different themes. Even Brian will tell you that. Call him up, here is his number in Dallas, Texas: 214-630-5045. Getting back to my original question no one can seem to answer, what is the warranty on neon breakage or abrupt failure out in the field? 1 year, 6 months, 90 days? I honestly couldn't tell you as I don't know. Will you re-pump for free if the gas leaks out due to a faulty seal or electrodes? How many fires have been started on buildings due to neon? I can Google some for you if you'd like, one just a month ago. Questions like this are never answered on this board because its like venturing into the lions den with you neon guys. People are afraid to ask or say, I'm not. The only dumb question is the one never asked. You're no better than me & I'm no better than you. Like my grandfather used to say all the time..."you're just as good as the other SOB" & "let the other guy be the SOB not you". Worked for him all his life financially. But hey, its a free forum & a free country, we can all agree to disagree right? CIAO
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This thread is over a year old. I'm just curious how the LED is holding up on The Drake. The historic Magnolia Hotel here in Dallas can't keep their flying red Pegasus lit with neon even after an extensive overhaul & millions of dollars renovating it 15 years ago. Its a maintenance nightmare so they turned it off completely. BEAUTIFUL sign, & arguably more historically relevant than The Drake in Chicago. It was built a year after The Drake, but stands over twice as tall at 29 stories. The Drake is only 13 stories tall. The Magnolia Hotel was in its hey day the tallest building West of the Mississippi. Its iconic red horse could be seen from the ground over 30 miles away on a clear night.
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Back when the unemployment rate up there in Illinois wasn't hovering above 9%? Gotcha. There is enough work here to last me a lifetime & then some if I wanted to do neon.
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Again, he doesn't plaster cars & boats with vinyl decals like yourself when the sign business gets slow or lease out digital message boards. All he does is neon wholesale, repair, & maintenance all day everyday. I'm going to learn under him when I've got some free time on my hands & lunch money to spare, not some guy who designs decals on a computer most of the day & bends neon once in a blue moon when the customer wants his GF's "I :heart: Gary" written in bright pink letters to hang on her bedroom wall.
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Whats your background in LED's? You probably know just as much as I know or less given its a relatively new technology (last decade or so) within the field of lighting & design. Its a learning curve. We all go through it. I've got a minor in electrical if that counts for something. I know electricity takes the path of least resistance. I know its the amperage not voltage that kills you. Whats your highest level of education? Could I bend a stick of neon right now? Not if my life depended on it. Could I bend a stick of neon after learning under Brian at Neon of Dallas for a few months? You bet your ass I could. Been seriously thinking about doing it just for the hell of it. He said all I gotta do is buy him lunch when I got change to spare & he'll teach me the ropes of bending neon. He would walk circles around 95% of the people on this board I guarantee that the dude is that bad ass. He doesn't plaster vehicles & boats with signs like yourself all he specializes in is NEON & strictly neon.
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I don't know how it is over there, but here in Texas we frequently get a good laugh out of the "Known To The State Of California To Cause" such & such labels. Sure, its proven on lab rats in dosages high enough to kill an elephant, but whatever. It is what it is. If the Drake fails within 5 years Sloan will be the ones to fix it. Whats the warranty on neon?
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Those glass tubes do release mercury vapor, especially when they are broken, as happens VERY frequently around these parts, especially in the Spring (tornado season) & Summer/Fall (hurricane season) months. There is no way in hell a neon guy that has been blowing a glass d%$k for 20, 30, 40, or 50 years doesn't have some sort of biological damage from that. You can't tell me that. Its called Mad Hatter's Syndrome & it is completely irreversible. Most neon benders work with well beyond what is considered the "normal" mercury exposure limit. Thank God we all don't live in China. Coal plants releasing gas are the least of their concerns. Over crowding, lack of food & water, famine, disease, government corruption, & toxic land fills would be first. Which environmentalist told you that? You live in California where they have regulations against everything else in the book (maybe even public sneezing) but not dealing with Mercury especially swallowing a vile full of it? I'm a bit suspicious on that one...
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Erik 1. I never signed up for a second account. I was however signing in from social networking & decided to make a real account. Shame on me. 2. I never called you. That must have been someone else. 3. I love both neon & led. There is a time & place for both. Ultimately its up to the sign guy to educate the customer on the pros & cons of both. Sadly, most don't have a clue. 4. Only the building owners can truly justify how their money was spent. Buildings get bought & sold all the time. Do you for a minute think they care if their neon or LED is up & burning in 25 years? They want the here, the now. 5. If it were me or my building I would have left the neon on this particular sign simply for a bit a nostalgia, but again, sometimes its the owners coming to you saying they WANT to go LED doesn't matter what it costs. Thanks & have a good day. PS why is this website displaying the wrong post times? Its a good 6 hours off on my end. Maybe that's also why you thought I made a 2nd account. You may have issues with your server or who ever hosts this site.
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Tell me...how are you going to capture those mercury vapors released by broken green & blue tubes? I'd be amazed to know & would like to invent something like that some day. I might be a billionaire. I know this much...only red is considered "neon". What bothers me is the fact we were all sold on mercury tooth fillings by our dentists decades ago. Its no wonder the old washed up neon guys are "mad as a hatter". It affects the brain chemistry sucking on those glass tubes. ;) I kid.
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Yes, climate does play a VERY important factor. You are in California where neon works wonderful 365 days a year, I'm not. You guys are in a 100 year mega drought with no relief in sight. I would imagine those neon tubes would last forever unless you had an earthquake (God forbid) come rattle them loose or shatter them. Getting back to the OP the sign is in Chicago where its below freezing for a good number of months out of the year. Neon will be dim as a firefly (if it even lights) while LED's are shining brighter than ever. So much for the holiday season in Chicago with neon. Was it worth the retrofit for energy savings, tax rebates, & cold weather performance? Only the buildings owner can answer that question.
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Nope, my system uses magnetic transformers. You are just assuming all LED systems operate on electronic transformers...not the case. In places where an unsightly magnetic transformer in a box will take up space I will use a Meanwell LED transformer. Funny because most neon guys are switching out their magnetic transformers for electronics to compete with LED's in energy savings. I love neon, but its dying just like metal halides, sodium bulbs,& flourescents. They are considered hazardous materials.
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I'm not talking about modules I'm talking about border lights. I don't really do a whole lot of back lit signage so I can't say. Erik PM me if you want details.