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#1 Erik Cin

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 08:05 PM


Project Facilities


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Board Patrons & Vendors can use this link to go directly to the project LINK

All others please take a look at our Membership Upgrade page and see if this upgrading your free membership might benefit you. LINK



Project Description


This is a Comparison for 2 lamp 4' T-Bar Fluorescent lamp fixtures. The standard for this project is a T12 lamp on a magnetic ballast. We will be looking at comparing different size Fluorescent lamps as well as various LED systems for retrofitting



Project Specifications

We will be using a standard 2 lamp, 4' lamp fixture that we will suspend 8' from the ground and take various light measurements, measurements directly from the ground, and outward in marked locations measuring light disbursement.

Measurement of power consumption.

Cost of retrofits and ROI.

We may even run these fixtures continuously cycling twice per day, on for 10 hours, off for two.


Products used (Initial Start)

  • T12 GE lamps
  • T8 GE Lamps
  • T5 Lamps
  • AoturoaLED Retrofit Kit

    Future products




Initial Draw Videos


I have done some video shorts which I will post on initial draws of power for a T12 magnetic, T8 Electronic, T5 Electronic, LED retrofit Kits. As I test each one initially before hanging I will update this video section

Stay Tune!







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#2 TecnoluxMan

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:20 AM

This is very good info, thanks for bringing this out to the forefront=====

#3 YYZ

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:36 AM

Just wondering... if it's a 2 lamp comparison, shouldn't you be using a 1' x 4' fixture? A 2' x 4' usually has 4 lamps.

#4 Erik Cin

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:41 AM

That's a good question.

I used that particular fixture, which is a 3 lamp fixture because when I did lots of Fluorescent lamp retrofitting years (interior retail space and wharehouse) ago we changed out many T12 fixtures that were this size in configurations as two lamp, 3 lamp and 4 lamp. I did far more 2 lamp change outs with this size fixture.

So I thought I'd do and use the same size fixture.

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#5 YYZ

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 10:58 AM

I guess it doesn't really matter if you're using 2 of every type - whatever extra space exists or lost light will be the same for all. The angles of a 1x4 might have shot a little more light downwards, but the 2x4 gives you more room to play considering this is an experiment of sorts.

Do you want a link to some of the online re-sellers of LED based replacement tubes?

#6 Erik Cin

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 11:02 AM

I guess it doesn't really matter if you're using 2 of every type - whatever extra space exists or lost light will be the same for all. The angles of a 1x4 might have shot a little more light downwards, but the 2x4 gives you more room to play considering this is an experiment of sorts.

Do you want a link to some of the online re-sellers of LED based replacement tubes?


I'm just trying to use what every office, retail, or warehouse facilities use right now and how it would be retrofitted. I haven't seen too many 1x4's in these places.

On the links, Yes please!

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#7 Manuel Lynch

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:41 AM

our two strip kit is designed to retrofit a 2ft by 4 ft fixture - whether the fixture has 4X T12, 3X T8 (very common down in New Zealand), or 2X T8

#8 Manuel Lynch

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:03 AM

Here is a video that shows our LED Retrofit Kit ($125USD) being installed to retrofit a fluorescent 1x4 light fitting that has two T8 tubes in a high rise office building in Auckland.

· Original power level = 80 Watts | New power level = 48 Watts

· Application - 10 hours per day - Old product lifetime = 2 years | New product lifetime = 10 years

· Older product problems = flickering | New product problems = you have to watch the video

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVFnlro2dvo

or click link

Edited by Manuel Lynch, 06 October 2010 - 09:04 AM.


#9 Erik Cin

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:09 AM

Those are very different results than what we are getting here. Also, is that the fixture where each lamps is on it's own separate magnetic ballast, one per lamp?

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#10 Manuel Lynch

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:18 AM

Those are very different results than what we are getting here. Also, is that the fixture where each lamps is on it's own separate magnetic ballast, one per lamp?


yes - each tube is on separate magnetic ballast - most common thing everywhere else in the world. The results are monitored by an outside company that has some pretty advanced power monitoring products that cost the end customer around $3500 per month to evaluate changes and they confirm their is an 80 Watt to 48 Watt reduction - they also show that light output on the LED system was 30-40% higher.

The company that does the monitoring has a few large customers like the largest banks in the southern hemisphere, etc - they are known for dramatically reducing people's power bills. This is the company most large retailers, banks, and businesses use http://www.energyict.com

Our kits are also being used by two very large global companies that have shown the same results....one of them is the Catholic Church and the other is the largest dairy company in the world that produces 1/3rd of the worlds milk.

And so what are you seeing different in your results Erik? Please do share because your tutorial does not show actual results of light output, power, etc. And please note that our power supplies are not power factored so it may give you an erroneous reading on your power meter...this is very common.

Edited by Manuel Lynch, 06 October 2010 - 09:32 AM.


#11 Erik Cin

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:31 AM


Those are very different results than what we are getting here. Also, is that the fixture where each lamps is on it's own separate magnetic ballast, one per lamp?


yes - each tube is on separate magnetic ballast - most common thing everywhere else in the world. The results are monitored by an outside company that has some pretty advanced power monitoring products that cost the end customer around $3500 per month to evaluate changes and they confirm their is an 80 Watt to 48 Watt reduction - they also show that light output on the LED system was 30-40% higher.

The company that does the monitoring has a few large customers like the largest banks in the southern hemisphere, etc - they are known for dramatically reducing people's power bills.

Our kits are also being used by two very large global companies that have shown the same results....one of them is the Catholic Church and the other is the largest dairy company in the world that produces 1/3rd of the worlds milk.

And so what are you seeing different in your results Erik? Please do share because your tutorial does not show actual results of light output, power, etc. And please note that our power supplies are not power factored so it may give you an erroneous reading on your power meter...this is very common.


I haven't gotten to the light output yet, but power is there.

http://www.thesignsy...t-led-fixtures/

I'll be posting the video shots soon.

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#12 thomaserb

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:47 AM



Those are very different results than what we are getting here. Also, is that the fixture where each lamps is on it's own separate magnetic ballast, one per lamp?


yes - each tube is on separate magnetic ballast - most common thing everywhere else in the world. The results are monitored by an outside company that has some pretty advanced power monitoring products that cost the end customer around $3500 per month to evaluate changes and they confirm their is an 80 Watt to 48 Watt reduction - they also show that light output on the LED system was 30-40% higher.

The company that does the monitoring has a few large customers like the largest banks in the southern hemisphere, etc - they are known for dramatically reducing people's power bills.

Our kits are also being used by two very large global companies that have shown the same results....one of them is the Catholic Church and the other is the largest dairy company in the world that produces 1/3rd of the worlds milk.

And so what are you seeing different in your results Erik? Please do share because your tutorial does not show actual results of light output, power, etc. And please note that our power supplies are not power factored so it may give you an erroneous reading on your power meter...this is very common.


I haven't gotten to the light output yet, but power is there.

http://www.thesignsy...t-led-fixtures/

I'll be posting the video shots soon.



I'll be the cranky old guy

New fluorescent fixtures lamp life 30K
LED lamp life 50K
So if your LED lamps last 10 years - the fluorescent lamps last 6 years

Can't tell from the Video the quality of the LED lighting, but I not sold on the quality of the LED lighting in an office environment. Any CRI figures or color temperature?


To be fair

Just saw an application in a beer color with LED fixtures - this is a great application.

#13 Manuel Lynch

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:55 AM

CRI is currently 71 - our new version will be 85

Color Temp available is 2700K, 3500K, 4000K, 5000K - our largest two sellers are 4000K and 5000K

Just confirmed with Erik that in power testing he did that the parts were not connected to the fixture to run a bit cooler and more efficient - I am confident his results will change when the parts are mounted to the fixture - after all I have to use those patents I filed - right??? (US Patents 7,582,911, 7,329,024, and 7,102,172)




#14 Erik Cin

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 09:59 AM

CRI is currently 71 - our new version will be 85

Color Temp available is 2700K, 3500K, 4000K, 5000K - our largest two sellers are 4000K and 5000K

Just confirmed with Erik that in power testing he did that the parts were not connected to the fixture to run a bit cooler and more efficient - I am confident his results will change when the parts are mounted to the fixture - after all I have to use those patents I filed - right??? (US Patents 7,582,911, 7,329,024, and 7,102,172)


Yes these were measured pulling right out of the box and layed across the table, I'll redo later and see what the results are.

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#15 Erik Cin

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

Okay, updated the the tutorial, check and let me know on the support forum LINK.

My fault, there is a lower value, but still not the 48, but much lower than the original.

I also forgot to calculate the power correction on the magnetic, so the ROI is a lot better on both.

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