signeye
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Posts posted by signeye
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You could of course use green phosphor coated tubing - it's brighter than whites and will add even more punch to a green fascia (depending on the green).
Depending on the geometry, you might even be able to drop to single outline?
I notice the LEd suggestions have not suggested green LED's. Why?
No high powered Green LEDs on the market at a reasonable price. Most greens and blues are in the low power family and the majority of channel letter work in the States is red or white.
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A good customer of mine has recently made the decision to shift most of his channel letter busines to LED applications. I have done over 40 sets of channel letters for one particular account over the last several years. Recently, he did a set of channel letters for this account and opted to use LED as the illumination source. He told me Friday that he needed me to do a set of letters quick because his client (who owns four of these restaurants) complained that the letters were not bright enough.
Let me give you some specs and you guys coach me up on how his problem can be improved. The letters are upper and lower case (25 letters in all) Caps are 28". The font is a similar to a Souvenier Bold. The cans have a 6" return and he uses white acrylic with transluscent green vinyl on all the sets. He used only one strip of LED lighting components. The sets I have done have all been 6500 White 15mm double stroked.
I know very little about LED applications and would like very much for you all to let me know what can be done, if anything, to achieve the same light intensity as neon in this type of application and the costs invoived in doing a job of this magnitude. I would like to compare it to what I charge for Wholesale Neon channel letters :weld: .
Dave,
There are very few options to single stroke with LED white product to get close to neon. What LED product was put into the job? The fact that you have double stroked your letters in the past is something the LED guy missed, no surprise. Who advised you on this? When I was dealing with customers in the past, it was important to know what had been in the cans before I sent a layout to the customer. Also, the fact that the light was going through green is another issue for white leds as they are blue in thier original state. They are then coated with phosphers to bring the K temp into the correct range. With that being said, the green and blue wave lenghts are being picked up by the vinyl and it makes this a very difficult application for SOME lower power LEDs to deal with. You need 1/2 watt or 1 watt LEDs to start with, probably double stroked and then you better get a layout from somebody who knows neon as well as the LEDs being concidered. Last, was it a 30mA or 60 mA tranny? Good luck.
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signeye: I guarantee you its not Seoul Semi, Toyoda or anything else reputable either. Probably similar in grade to flashlight diodes (non Luxeon) made by HB-LED or someone similar. I occasionally buy diodes from Korea and Taiwan (with patent coverage) and have to say the quality is pretty good, but would never buy white emitters from China. Not yet, anyways. You out of the biz entirely, at this point?
I'll never be out...I have too many people calling me asking about the buisness but right now I am selling other products. There is no doubt it is not a high quality product. The platform speaks for itself. I think you and I are the only people here who know what to look for on a spec sheet or in the guts to really know what is up from down when it comes to white LEDs. I think this is mainland product, maybe aftermarket Korean. What the mainlanders dont want to realize is that labor is a huge issue in North America and Europe. Our countries are not markets where cheap products can be tossed out. Labor in Asia is dirt cheap, sometimes less than 10 cents an hour. Two guys on a bamboo truss can work all day and rip out miles of cheap product where here that just wont fly. It is no big deal for them to replace junk LEDs. This poor guy in Utah just doesnt get it but he will. If he has to deal with unions this will be replaced in 6 months for sure and Fishnut wins for sure, good for him. Then all the green people will walk away with thier faces RED!
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5mm thru hole diodes (T1-3/4) just don't have the right properties for channel letter illumination, beyond the fact that they don't dissipate heat as well as surface mount diodes. We use a ton of them for our edgelighting products (wide range of narrower angles works better). I also highly doubt they're from Nichia (judging by angles, ranks), so there are likely patent issues with selling them in the US.
You cant tell what kind of coating is used and nothing on the specs at all, so I also wonder about the water issues. I didn't see any UL info or Mil Spec testing data. Yup to the nichi thing, i'm sure they will be hearing from our friends in Michigan now that they have put out publicity. Don't think they are soulsemis either?
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I can't speak for him or his intent behind the keyboard but I have to say from experience usually nothing more than southern lingo. Some may hear or read it and think they are being belittled in some way but far from. I use to have a boss who grew up in Georgia and called everyone "son" whether they were his age younger or older. Though I have to give it an awkward eye at someone older, but then again I'm not from there and traditions and culture is a little different than other parts. I mean here people call each other "Dawg", or "Cat" or "Nigga", "Hootchie" "Ho" all may seem offensive if your not familiar with it or foreign too it you will find it that way.
The way I interpret, is "Son" = "Friend"
Anyway, back off to permit filing
Well put boss.
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I hate to say it - but I wouldn't go near that product.
Looks like offshore junk, using the wrong LED type with poor heat dissipation, beam spread and wire length between modules.
How did ya like the bin sort on the white...ranges from 7k to 16K
Thats a combo A/B sort, unbelievable. Dem letters are all going to be blue after the summer heat cooks em up a little bit. I just dont see a way to for heat dissipation either. This is going to be a service mans dream account. -
I'm looking forward the food alone, I read a lot about it on the net! I'm there for that alone and who ever shows up shows up, that'll be just a bigger bonus added to the food and drinks
The kobe burger is 20 bucks but it's damn tasty!
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Due to complications from my wifes surgery I will not be able to make it on Friday. I am trying to get there on Saturday but it all depends on her well being...have fun all
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thingy dingy devise!
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Burger bar sounds good, is that Mexican place "La Salsa"?
Yup...So Burger Bar at 5ish? :beerparty: then
then 
whos in? -
something or other
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She then started
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There is a mexican joint on the second level at the Luxor that may be an ideal spot to meet on Friday or the Burger bar in between the Luxor and Mandalay Bay is also a nice spot...? :beerparty: You have to walk right by the Burger bar on your way back from the convention center to both Luxor and Ex...they have killer burgers and the scenery is nice as well
.gif)
Also, any poker people up for a game? The Luxor will accomodate a private table if we can get 10 people...let me know and I will set it up.
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Also Travis , I know for sure you have samples of my old product unless Jim has hijacked them...if he has, I still have some and will send them to you if you want.
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As for tests being done, I am in the same boat as I am sure you are. I have asked for samples and was told I would be getting them (from more than just Signeye's former employer). Nothing has come yet.
Travis,
I am long gone from that place but I will do what I can to keep my word and get you the results. It really is no secret and you can make your own evaluation by using a digital camera and adjusting the f stops for brightness. Longevity will take time as we have debated but it's right in your back yard, so I ask, how does it look?
To address the point of the thread, I think there has been alot of great posts and I think that everybody needs to roll with the punches and accept alot of the BS that goes with the industry.
WCSG, I love the site and I think you should bring about 5000 buisness cards to Vegas and hand them out or just drop them on the floor in all the neon and LED booths! That will help get the word out.
Also, Having been born into the industry I think that the journeyman is really the lost factor here. My father was trained as a union journeyman and trained countless others...that just is not the case anymore. Unions had a place in this country a long time ago but that has passed. Until some form of training comes back into play this industry will be full of know it alls and helpers...no good. As I have posted in other threads, if you don't get involved at some level of associations everybody will continue to just screw the pooch. I guess I am just the kettel calling the pot black as for the third time in my sign carrer I have run away but I do applaud the people who stay for the punishment of having to deal with the people who come into the industry thinking it's a no brainer and can just sub out everything. :bitchin: My mom always said that any yahoo with a pickup and a ladder can call themself a sign person (very pc huh!) Damn shame we can't hold ourselves to a higher level.
Don't give this up, this site will continue to grow...hang on brother.
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Sign law proposal is opposed
Business owners go to Fishkill hearing
By John Davis
Poughkeepsie Journal
FISHKILL - Todd Baright, owner of a car wash on Route 9, says the town's sign ordinance is going to hurt his and other local businesses.
"Small businesses require effective signage for consumer awareness and ease of locating," Baright said. "Most don't have an enormous advertising budget. The town government should put themselves in our shoes."
The owner of Foam & Wash Carwash was one of nearly a dozen Fishkill business owners and residents who spoke at a public hearing Saturday morning in town hall.
The hearing was on a proposed amendment to the 2005 sign ordinance, which among other things bans internally illuminated, neon and most free-standing signs. Many business owners see the ordinance as too restrictive.
The amendment would ease some of those restrictions.
"We realized there were things we needed to tweak a little bit," town Attorney Janis Gomez Anderson said.
While most free-standing signs would still be banned, the amendment would allow monument signs along roads - signs attached to a base or poles no higher than two feet.
The amendment would do away with a "sunset" provision that gives business owners 10 years to get rid of signs that don't conform to the law.
Instead, the nonconforming signs could stay up indefinitely. But once an owner plans to modify a nonconforming sign, it must then be brought into compliance.
Fishkill Supervisor Joan Pagones said the town adopted the sign regulations, in part, because it is a member of the Hudson River Greenway Compact. Members agree to abide by state smart growth principles and guidelines that promote the history and scenery of the region.
"Our plan is strike a balance between the business community and the economy and the environment," Pagones said.
Most who spoke Saturday said the amendment does not go far enough in easing the ban on internally illuminated and most free-standing signs.
Arvind Shah of the Ramada Inn on Route 9 said some potential customers won't see his motel if he ever has to take down the internally illuminated sign.
"They will be looking for a place while they are driving," he said. "Whatever we do, make sure it provides for visibility on Route 9."
Several business owners in plazas said it would help if they could at least post the name of their store along the road.
"I'm fighting to keep my business," said Joe Crifo, owner of Kitchens by J.N.C. in the Dutchess Shopping Center on Route 52.
Speaking in favor of more sign regulation was Barbara DeSimone, a Fishkill resident. She said the streamers, flags and other unconventional signs along Route 9D near Dutchess Stadium are not appropriate.
"It looks like a circus most of the time," she said. "While it might be good for business, it's ugly most of the time."
To Whom this does concern;
call 1-800 Whysign. It is the legal resource group retained by
International Sign Association that you can use for legal counsel free of charge.
Good luck
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Google her and laugh! She really did her homework. WHAT A BONEHEAD! Considering the fact that there may only be 15 neon signs, LOL/JK, in the state she really made a statement.
Hey Karen go after the the indoor tubes, if you can get that done then you deserve an award...What a freakin jackAZZ!
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This is great news! Now LED's will even cost more since you know you must use this new plastic! Yea Neon!
LD grade came out 4 years ago and cost 400ish for a 51x100, now it's in the 100's. Not much different than GP grade. This stuff will fall in price as well. I do wonder about the "small holes"? On the coasts for LED systems with bad coatings...no good, oxidation is going to crush you!
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Your an LED guy I take it?
Born of hand lettering neon bender. I would like to think I see both sides of the fence well. My point is I have been around this industry a long time and I here alot of what should be done and I don't see people sticking it out at the association level to get the right things done. I am as guilty as most though so you can call me the kettel if ya like.
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I have been trying to keep up with all that is being posted about this and keep seeing the question of "where were the sign associations?" That is a fair question and I tend to agree with the response that they are probably following the money, LED money.
Ya, it's our fault...not. How many LED companies are even part of loacal and regional associations? Mine is. I havent seen you or your owner at our association meetings.
Neon vs. LED
in General Message Board
Posted
Any Face material is going to knock down the brightness of any light source. What I did when I started to learn about LEDs was to learn more about the kelvin temp scale and extensive testing, thanks Westinghouse. We all kinda know it from buying 6500, 8300 or 4500 white when it came to glass but it was just a color. Now the game has changed. You need to understand how that color apears on the face of a sign. It may sound strange but I found alot of information in the photography industry. They are always concerned about light color even if it is off 100 degrees kelvin. The pigments in plastic resin will block out certin wavelenghts of color in the spectrum. Do some basic research on the color spectrum and then call your plastic suppliers, skip sign supply guys, and start asking questions about this topic. You may have to dig but you will find some interesting answers to your questions.