[SOT really? Editorially Speaking column has no place in your mag. (rag)]

I can't imagine Wade would just sit back and not address this issue. SOTT used to be the best of the industry trade publications, IMHO. It will lose the remaining readership quickly if this agenda-driven slant continues.

[ISA Expo 2014 Orlando]

Erik - Is there a Western States Sign Show this year? And is it in San Diego again? I checked the CSA web site and didn't see it. We attended that show a few years ago, and the attendance was poor. But maybe this year would be better. Let me know what you've heard - thanks.

[Honesty in Sign Industry Trade Magazine Articles, Part II]

Hey HV,

No problem. Kind of funny - when I first read your post, I thought you had actually seen a DSW ad in the publication. That is why I asked for the page number - I couldn't find it in the digital edition. If in fact an unauthorized ad was running, I would need to know the specifics ASAP.

We did receive a listing in the recent Sign & Digital Graphics Buyer's guide, but that was unpaid.

Anyway, with that said, we have advertised with Sign & Digital Graphics (formerly Sign Business) in the past, but not for quite a while. I think our last small ad ran about a year ago.

Is it possible they quote us in their article to increase the chance of DSW running a print ad? I doubt it. They've quoted us in other articles since we cancelled our previous small ad, and it didn't work then.

Also, given the staff reductions in the trade publications during the economic downturn, I hesitate to criticize their work too harshly. I think they are doing the best they can with the very slim resources they have. Many are doing the work of 2 or 3 people.

Let me get my hands on the print edition, read the article word for word, and then I'll get back to you with some specific comments.

IN THE MEANTIME, GET OUT THERE AND ENJOY YOUR VACATION!

Hi John and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I'm on vacation at the moment and only have two issues of Sign & Digital (June & July). You are correct I do not see you as having an ad in either of those two issues, but, just last week I was given the buyers guide and this is how I cross referenced without looking at all past magazine issues. Does it cost a fee to be in this Buyer's Guide? If not, my mistake. Has DSW ever paid fees for any kind of exposure by Signs & DG? No ads in the past. If not, would this article have motivated DSW possibly to think about future advertising?

If DSW has never paid any fees, then my mistake and you have sincerest apology.

It's not really my business who sells to who (wholesale) and not something I would waste time with, I'm all for a free market. I'm more concerned about the Industry Magazines & Leaderships role, who are supposed to be helping by looking out for the best interests of our grand sign industry & have them at heart.

That aside, what do you think on my comments on what I would call of Sign & Digital Graphics irresponsible article?

On a additional comment to my original thread I just slightly glanced at June's Issue of Amanda McGrory's "Breaking In To Digital" I can almost say this article almost looks like a mirror reflection of the channel letter article by just the opening sentence alone.

"Digital Signage can sound intimidating, especially to a sign shop that has never taken on this type of application ......"

[Honesty in Sign Industry Trade Magazine Articles, Part II]

Hi Gary - Thanks for your response. I haven't gone through the entire article yet (we've only gotten the digital edition - guess the printed one will arrive in today's mail.) But in Sign and Digital Graphics defense, I wanted to make sure it is clear that DSW is not currently an advertiser in the magazine.

Let me take a look at the rest, and I'll post some additional thoughts.

John- howdy. A member since 07 and you're now doing a post!! For those that don't know John --- quality shop, and nice stuff !!! And a nicer person you couldn't find.

I'm not speaking for Eric -------- but excluding the ad part ---------- your thoughts on Erics comments about sign articles??? You've been in the industry quite awhile, and since you're in the wholesale section--how many calls do you get from "idiots" that don't know squat about signs trying to get something cheap, haven't a clue what to order, and then turn around and ask you how much they should mark it up for and install for???

gn

[Honesty in Sign Industry Trade Magazine Articles, Part II]

Okay I'm at it again giving my own personal opinion. Here we go again, another month and I had time to look through one in my private office where I find absolute peace and quite if you know what I mean.

I thumbed through this July's issue of Sign & Digital Graphics, "Don't turn away, Channel Letter Business" by Amanda McGrory.

I'm shocked, no I'm not shocked that every vendor listed happens to be their advertisers. Do I blame capitalism and the free market? No. Everything is fair game and so is my opinion. But the problem here and to me I see many safety issues at hand along with legal issues. In this article (so called) Journalism once again greases the hand of Advertising and doing a grave disservice to our industry.

Okay, were talking about channel letters and primarily wholesale vendors and the sign companies who purchase these to pass onto their client. IMO, this article is purposely preaching to their base and written to drum up business for their advertisers, the usual touchy feely back patting.

Small parts of the article are legit, such as

"WHY A WHOLESALER"

I get, keeping up with the steady work flow and why buy unnecessary equipment or costs of keeping or buying. Sounds good but it all ends in the start of the last paragraph.

"If you're in the sign business, you're in the business to sell signs. Period,"

This is where my problem starts with this article. I look at this sentence and think about the thoughts going into the minds of shops who have no experience or legal business getting into the electric sign industry. "Wow! I can do it too!"

Our next section of this article.

"WHOLESALERS GETTING INVOLVED"

"Clearly, those new to the channel letter market will need guidance when issuing quotes......Channel letters are a form of electric signage, and this may be a type of application with which many shops are not yet familiar.........But, if you're new to this sector, don't let that intimidate you....."

Who the hell are these people? This is clearly marketing and praying upon the ignorant just to make a sale. Let's bare a little more of this informercialism...

".....however, most wholesalers can provide you with a list of local installers.......While technical know-how is needed with electrical installation, this does not mean that it's impossible without a license..........There are lot's of avenues to research, but you need to find out which ones are best for you.......Keep in mind there is risk involved when dealing with electrical signage installation because of the voltage levels used.......Thus, selecting a UL-compliant wholesaler that follows Article 600 of the National Electric Code is a absolute must"

Good god, did these people just recommend and insinuate that "Anybody" can do this kind of work and that vinyl shops or the inexperienced shops should look for ways, or look at laws as simple obstacles that one should simply research to get around to install these signs themselves or sign illegal contracts to pose as legal electrical sign contractors?

Now if this magazine had any shred of integrity or honesty as industry journalism they would at least write a small subtext or fine print at the end saying that they don't really believe this garbage themselves OR, better yet, do as most newspapers do to make believe articles are real, but that are really a advert and write PAID ADVERTISEMENT at the top of the article.

Getting serious now, what should have been discussed in this article is the fact that safety and electricity are HUGE key factors. I know we joke many times here on the site that some shops grab a poor sole in the vinyl department and throw him into the install truck and "today he's a installer". But this magazine literally encourages people who have no business in the electric sign field to become involved, all in the name of making a buck and not caring who they sell to. It's encouraged here in this article for their vendors.

What does it take to become experienced and install with electric signs in most states? In most you need a electrical license or specialty electric sign license. In most to obtain a contractors license it takes working for a electric sign shop for a minimum of 8 years. Example, can a Fast Signs shop (Buy a electrical sign from a wholesaler) who is a franchise and no contractors license, execute a contract with a salon that states they will fabricate or furnish a electric sign and install it, with the intention of hiring a licensed installer or installing it themselves without a license? A BIG ABSOLUTELY NO Subcontract is and only can be done by another contractor, only a contractor can subcontract

What can happen if you are caught posing as a contractor?

• Fines thousands of dollars
  
• Jail time
  
• The contractor who was hired by an unlicensed contractor will also be fined and lose their license.
  

So bottom line is, if you're not a contractor you cannot legally take on such work. This should be explained by Sign Business and put into the article before making believe "anyone can do it" Yes I know, there are some counties and states that don't require any kind of license, but they are so few compared to most states today.

I quickly laid out the legal speel. Now what about Sign Business's responsibility to talk about electrical safety? Do I need to go into reasons why experience is needed to install or handle an electrical sign?

Sure the sign looks good once shipped in, but will it and can it be installed per plan? Every wall is different and can take unexpected turns, what if modifications need to be made? How does the inexperienced sign shop know if that sign they have that was shipped in, is safe even though it has a listed label on it? How many Wholesale or shop manufactured signs do we run into that have no right even having a U.L. Label on it?

I'm sure I can go on and on, but the bottom line is, this article was probably written by an inexperienced industry columnist who failed to think about legal ramifications or electrical safety for their readers they are preaching and selling to. Or worse yet, was told to omit any hard talk that might detour sales from their base. It's evident that it was more important to flash their vendors in a infomercial article and get as many new shops as they can to start thinking about selling channel letters and buying from their vendors, the wholesalers......which they should not be in if they have no legal right. How many sign hack jobs do we run into on a regular basis having to re-repair?

It's articles like this that make one think it's all about the magazines way of pleasing it's base instead of taking the responsibility as a true industry journalist. Should we still call these magazines journalism, or are they taking on a new role? What happened to maintaining, protecting & guarding our good industry?

This article is no better than a industry magazine of another trade such as a roofer to become a plumber all of a sudden and decide to install water heaters or furnaces. All because they can sell you the products at a good wholesale price.

If this Magazine has any integrity at all & wants to call themselves a "industry leading magazine". Then they owe our electrical sign industry a part two for August. They need to clearly state that they made a mistake of misleading readers that "anyone can do this", AND, to be intimidated if they do not understand high voltage, codes, laws, safety standards & it is to be respected. Also that experience is needed when handling, maintaining & installing channel letters. Finally telling about the mistake of telling their readers that "readers" should "research" ways even if they are unlicensed. They should explain the legal penalties of doing so illegally.

You can make a mistake writing a article such as this one, you just can't make a mistake with electricity or structural integrity.

Okay, I'm off to Palm Springs, enjoy your weekend!

HV - Where do you see an ad for Direct Sign Wholesale? You mentioned that "every vendor listed happened to be an advertiser", but I looked through this issue, and don't see an ad from DSW. Which page is that on?