[couple questions]

california wants to make the spacing of lamps 18" on center instead of the typical 12"

[More UL fees???]

Could it be a kawinkidink that UL is located in Chicago, ya know the city our pres. is from. I know thats not fair to compare, my taxes havent gone up that much to pay for all the corrupt companies that got bailed out on our money.

Why would UL approve a cathode housing that does not meet the minimum arc test????? Maybe someone is on the board ????

Why even use UL. It seems every product is listed anyway. I once had a UL guy ask about the glass I was bending.

To another post . The inspectors should supply thier own calibration tools like the certified weight for pull tests, Oh yeah the only place you can get an approved one is from a city called Chicago

Where was the certified gauge tester made???

There should be a tax rebate for having a UL sticker.

[VOLTARC closes]

Voltarcs rep (ex-rep) told me that the purchase was more of a personal vendetta between Christian and Vinni. He also said the glass will be coming out of Hungary or China.

[VOLTARC closes]

very good question , how many employees were kept besides my good friend Joe

[Alright ISA]

Hey it's your original post. You are free to see it how you want. I respect that completely. But in reality that's what freedom is all about. The last I knew thats what a forum is suppose to be about. I generally stay off these. It seems that every BB ever created for the sign industry ends up being controled by like minded individuals not open to differences. If everyone agrees then nobody learns a new perspective. That's what got the Nazi's in trouble and every other dictatorial, or "supremacy of idea" societies since then.

He is still on the other boards but banned here. But I bet he's watching. May be that is why no one posts on the other BB

[GWH]

How do you think the Great White Hope would look if Erik had just called distributors for the lighting components for the test. I ask this because when I ordered comparison products for a customer the wrong moduals and power supplies were sent.

Just asking because this is what happens when you call and order white neon or LED. They send what ever is on the shelf.

[Does anybody know the advantage of thes]

Yep and I know from first hand experience!!!

If you accept the credit card, later the card company will take the money back and you will be left holding the bag

Tell them the card # didn't go through and you need a certified check or cash. that should stop them or you can even make some cash.

I keep getting calls for car warrantee stuff from Missurri "National warrantee". they tell me my warrantee is up on my 07 truck. They want to sell me ins. for 5 years at 3400$ up to 100K miles, I just have fun with the girls now. They dont like it when you get perverted.

[Fernandina Beach inn owners file suit over sign code]

put a for sale sign on the neon and sue the town for prohibiting the sale of merchandise (art) in a commercial zone.

[Once bright future beginning to dim]

First sentence , third paragraph states it all.

Go out and sell the work, if you wait for it to come to you you will be out of buisness.

Once bright future beginning to dim

As sales of neon signs have plummeted, local craftsman pushes on

Kevin Stirnweis bends glass tubing for a neon sign at his Chelsea workshop. The sign will be for a Brighton auto restoration company. (Globe Staff Photo / John Blanding)

By Ami Albernaz

Globe Correspondent / April 17, 2008

Approaching Light Design Neon in Chelsea, it's hard to tell whether it's still in operation. A glowing pink and turquoise sign reading "Neon" hangs in the window, but lower down, so does a more sober "For Sale" notice. Inside, a colossal Marilyn Monroe fixture smiles down from the back wall, alongside images of Mufasa and Simba from "The Lion King." Out-of-service signs from a money-transfer shop and the nearby Katz Bagel Bakery lean against the shelving below.

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Light Design is hanging on, just barely. It's a tough time to be in the neon business, said Kevin Stirnweis, who opened the shop in 1987 and, these days, works alone.

"There might be months when no customers walk in," said Stirnweis, 48, who is dressed in a black EMS shirt and dark jeans and has a ginger-colored braid that reaches his back. Referring to the white Akita- Labrador mix that serves as a doorbell, he added: "I'm having a hard time feeding my dog."

LED lighting (light-emitting diode) is partly to blame for neon's decline, as is environmentalism. Sales of neon signs containing mercury - meaning most of them - have been banned in Vermont, and Stirnweis sees this as a harbinger of things to come.

Then, of course, there's the matter of trends. While the nostalgic appeal of neon is undisputed, it generally isn't as cool as it was two decades ago.

"I talk to [the people at] Neon Williams on the phone all the time and we gripe about how terrible business is," he said, referring to the sign shop in Allston where he worked in the mid-'80s, when neon was in high demand.

Nowadays, Stirnweis's jobs are restricted largely to repairs and channel letters - illuminated stand-alone letters used as signs. There is the occasional bright spot, as when the makers of the film "The Departed" borrowed several of his signs.

"That one right there was in the film," he said, pointing to a woman's face displayed high on the wall. "I saw its reflection in a puddle, just for a second."

Pieces around the shop and photos in the albums that Stirnweis keeps of his work recall better days. At one point in the '90s, Stirnweis had eight employees. Orders poured in from businesses and homeowners, some wanting a neon sign for a home bar.

There were also the jobs from National Amusements Showcase Cinemas that sent Stirnweis to England, Scotland, Chile, and Argentina to install movie murals, including a 19-foot Marilyn Monroe in Glasgow. Closer to home were the giant King Kong and Wizard of Oz installations at the Showcase Cinemas in Woburn, which Stirnweis completed in six weeks as part of the cinema's renovations in 1997.

"I worked 22, 23 hours a day for four of those weeks, but we got it done," he said, adding that he hasn't had a single call for repairs.

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Cinema openings have slowed down in recent years, and lower prices on the Internet have lured away some of Stirnweis's would-be customers. The photo bulbs that Light Design used to turn out by the hundreds have since been switched over to LED.

Much of what was once powered by neon, in fact, has switched over to LED, as it is considered to be easier to install and more energy-efficient. (Perhaps the most prominent defector, the Citgo sign in Kenmore Square, went LED three years ago.)

Though statistics are hard to come by, neon has taken a hit nationwide, confirmed Nancy Maren, director of member resources at the United States Sign Council. "Very few companies make a living working with neon anymore," she said.

Locally, most sign shops have diversified; Stirnweis said that to his knowledge, Light Design and Neon Williams are the only two shops around to specialize in neon. These places are also, in a sense, the keepers of an exacting craft.

In a large workroom behind Stirnweis's storefront, he first sketches patterns for the sign itself and for the sheet metal supporting it. Then, at his "neon bending" station, he heats long tubes of glass and shapes them to form the letters.

"It's frustrating in the beginning, learning to be sensitive to the glass and knowing when it's heated up enough or when it's heated up too much," said Stirnweis, who segued into working with neon while he was a ceramics student at Alfred University in New York. "You burn yourself a lot and cut yourself a lot."

He then attaches electrodes to the ends of the tubes, and at a "pumping station" where the gases are kept, forces impurities out of the tubes and electrodes by removing air from the tube and blasting it with heat. Neon or argon is then inserted, and a drop of mercury added for blues, yellows, and greens.

A well-made sign, Stirnweis said, will last 20 years. That lifespan, along with the small amount of mercury involved, makes Stirnweis think environmental concerns are overblown.

"A fluorescent bulb that has mercury in it will maybe last a year. That can't be repaired," he said. "I can put a new electrode on [a neon sign] and it will last another 20 years."

Stirnweis isn't alone in defending neon; Maren, for one, said it "gets a bum rap." Still, Stirnweis isn't holding out for the tides to turn back in neon's favor. Light Design has been for sale for a year, and once it sells, he isn't sure if he'll stay in the sign business or move on to something else.

"Maybe I should start a school," he quipped, surveying all of the equipment and supplies.

But neon might not be relegated to retro signs and clocks. As a lighting technology, it's in a class of its own, said Anthony Clayton of Back Bay Sign in Medford.

"Neon, for so many years, has been the beautiful, accepted standard," he said. "If you need a repair, it can be done easily. LED lighting is an emerging technology, and it has some advantages. But in my mind and the mind of many, it's not quite there yet."