neonsignfire
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Posts posted by neonsignfire
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Does anyone have a vendor for the ground rings you attach to the flex connector on 1/2 conduit so that LED letters can be grounded? In the past I have bought them from N. Glantz, but they are out and don't know when they will get more. I've tried several sign supply companies and they don't even know what I'm talking about. What is everyone else doing to ground their LED channel letters? I buy mine wholesale from Dwayne Clein, so they come prewired. According to code the letters must be grounded. I find it hard to believe that the sign suppliers don't stock these.
You can buy grounding rings and grounding lock rings at any electrical supplier. Most of the connector companies make them; just be sure your connectors or couplings are suitable for use as an "Equipment Grounding Conductor" Your only hope at the sign suppliers would be a Master's product.
Neonsignfire
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Does anyone have a vendor for the ground rings you attach to the flex connector on 1/2 conduit so that LED letters can be grounded? In the past I have bought them from N. Glantz, but they are out and don't know when they will get more. I've tried several sign supply companies and they don't even know what I'm talking about. What is everyone else doing to ground their LED channel letters? I buy mine wholesale from Dwayne Clein, so they come prewired. According to code the letters must be grounded. I find it hard to believe that the sign suppliers don't stock these.
Master's Technology has ground rings and most electrical wholesalers as well. Best of luck and keep grounding.
Randy
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Nice to see someone is watching. Its no wonder there are so many lawyers now feasting on sign companies after a fire. These type of incidents along with incorrect and misleading articles harm the professionalism of the industry. They should employ someone who understands watts and amperes instead of nouns and verbs.
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Okay I'm at it again giving my own personal opinion. Here we go again, another month and I had time to look through one in my private office where I find absolute peace and quite if you know what I mean.
I thumbed through this July's issue of Sign & Digital Graphics, "Don't turn away, Channel Letter Business" by Amanda McGrory.
I'm shocked, no I'm not shocked that every vendor listed happens to be their advertisers. Do I blame capitalism and the free market? No. Everything is fair game and so is my opinion. But the problem here and to me I see many safety issues at hand along with legal issues. In this article (so called) Journalism once again greases the hand of Advertising and doing a grave disservice to our industry.
Okay, were talking about channel letters and primarily wholesale vendors and the sign companies who purchase these to pass onto their client. IMO, this article is purposely preaching to their base and written to drum up business for their advertisers, the usual touchy feely back patting.
Small parts of the article are legit, such as
"WHY A WHOLESALER"
I get, keeping up with the steady work flow and why buy unnecessary equipment or costs of keeping or buying. Sounds good but it all ends in the start of the last paragraph.
"If you're in the sign business, you're in the business to sell signs. Period,"
This is where my problem starts with this article. I look at this sentence and think about the thoughts going into the minds of shops who have no experience or legal business getting into the electric sign industry. "Wow! I can do it too!"
Our next section of this article.
"WHOLESALERS GETTING INVOLVED"
"Clearly, those new to the channel letter market will need guidance when issuing quotes......Channel letters are a form of electric signage, and this may be a type of application with which many shops are not yet familiar.........But, if you're new to this sector, don't let that intimidate you....."
Who the hell are these people? This is clearly marketing and praying upon the ignorant just to make a sale. Let's bare a little more of this informercialism...
".....however, most wholesalers can provide you with a list of local installers.......While technical know-how is needed with electrical installation, this does not mean that it's impossible without a license..........There are lot's of avenues to research, but you need to find out which ones are best for you.......Keep in mind there is risk involved when dealing with electrical signage installation because of the voltage levels used.......Thus, selecting a UL-compliant wholesaler that follows Article 600 of the National Electric Code is a absolute must"
Good god, did these people just recommend and insinuate that "Anybody" can do this kind of work and that vinyl shops or the inexperienced shops should look for ways, or look at laws as simple obstacles that one should simply research to get around to install these signs themselves or sign illegal contracts to pose as legal electrical sign contractors?
Now if this magazine had any shred of integrity or honesty as industry journalism they would at least write a small subtext or fine print at the end saying that they don't really believe this garbage themselves OR, better yet, do as most newspapers do to make believe articles are real, but that are really a advert and write PAID ADVERTISEMENT at the top of the article.
Getting serious now, what should have been discussed in this article is the fact that safety and electricity are HUGE key factors. I know we joke many times here on the site that some shops grab a poor sole in the vinyl department and throw him into the install truck and "today he's a installer". But this magazine literally encourages people who have no business in the electric sign field to become involved, all in the name of making a buck and not caring who they sell to. It's encouraged here in this article for their vendors.
What does it take to become experienced and install with electric signs in most states? In most you need a electrical license or specialty electric sign license. In most to obtain a contractors license it takes working for a electric sign shop for a minimum of 8 years. Example, can a Fast Signs shop (Buy a electrical sign from a wholesaler) who is a franchise and no contractors license, execute a contract with a salon that states they will fabricate or furnish a electric sign and install it, with the intention of hiring a licensed installer or installing it themselves without a license? A BIG ABSOLUTELY NO Subcontract is and only can be done by another contractor, only a contractor can subcontract
What can happen if you are caught posing as a contractor?
- Fines thousands of dollars
- Jail time
- The contractor who was hired by an unlicensed contractor will also be fined and lose their license.
So bottom line is, if you're not a contractor you cannot legally take on such work. This should be explained by Sign Business and put into the article before making believe "anyone can do it" Yes I know, there are some counties and states that don't require any kind of license, but they are so few compared to most states today.
I quickly laid out the legal speel. Now what about Sign Business's responsibility to talk about electrical safety? Do I need to go into reasons why experience is needed to install or handle an electrical sign?
Sure the sign looks good once shipped in, but will it and can it be installed per plan? Every wall is different and can take unexpected turns, what if modifications need to be made? How does the inexperienced sign shop know if that sign they have that was shipped in, is safe even though it has a listed label on it? How many Wholesale or shop manufactured signs do we run into that have no right even having a U.L. Label on it?
I'm sure I can go on and on, but the bottom line is, this article was probably written by an inexperienced industry columnist who failed to think about legal ramifications or electrical safety for their readers they are preaching and selling to. Or worse yet, was told to omit any hard talk that might detour sales from their base. It's evident that it was more important to flash their vendors in a infomercial article and get as many new shops as they can to start thinking about selling channel letters and buying from their vendors, the wholesalers......which they should not be in if they have no legal right. How many sign hack jobs do we run into on a regular basis having to re-repair?
It's articles like this that make one think it's all about the magazines way of pleasing it's base instead of taking the responsibility as a true industry journalist. Should we still call these magazines journalism, or are they taking on a new role? What happened to maintaining, protecting & guarding our good industry?
This article is no better than a industry magazine of another trade such as a roofer to become a plumber all of a sudden and decide to install water heaters or furnaces. All because they can sell you the products at a good wholesale price.
If this Magazine has any integrity at all & wants to call themselves a "industry leading magazine". Then they owe our electrical sign industry a part two for August. They need to clearly state that they made a mistake of misleading readers that "anyone can do this", AND, to be intimidated if they do not understand high voltage, codes, laws, safety standards & it is to be respected. Also that experience is needed when handling, maintaining & installing channel letters. Finally telling about the mistake of telling their readers that "readers" should "research" ways even if they are unlicensed. They should explain the legal penalties of doing so illegally.
You can make a mistake writing a article such as this one, you just can't make a mistake with electricity or structural integrity.
Okay, I'm off to Palm Springs, enjoy your weekend!
- Fines thousands of dollars
ground connections for LED channel letters
in General Message Board
Posted
Equipment grounding conductors may be either inside or outside. The continuous connection is what is important. When outside it must be protected from physical damage. You can use a grounding lock ring inside a letter if you wish.
Neonsignfire