esimmons76
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Posts posted by esimmons76
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I've been thinking about it for a while now and debated. I'm going to start two more projects that I want to start early summer, that will be similar to The Red Light District. I 'm going to do a Green and Blue Neon/LED comparison for Channel Letters.
I haven't thought of a name for the Green Project yet, I'm open for ideas on that. The Blue project will be named "Blue Light Special".
For some reason "green" makes me think of a green wig...
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esimmons76,
Thank you for the added explanation. You are absolutely correct in saying that if there were a problem with our label we would get immediately involved.
What you are referring to with ETL is an actual listing. Up until now, we have been for example with American Greetings listing individual designs to UL48, or a family of very similar designs. The listing as I'm sure you know is far more restrictive because the file is written to detail every aspect of the product. regular audits are done comparing products to the file to ensure they haven't changed. If they have, then the customer must submit a file revision request. If the product is custom or continually changing it can get very expensive and just isn't practical.
There are two specific programs that MET has and I know UL has that allow the shop to be certified. The Industrial Panel Program and now the Sign Shop Program. These programs are specifically set up anticipating variations in product and allowing that flexibility while still maintaining the NRTL's responsibility to OSHA. With MET's program, a new client would be required to have 4 follow up audits within the first year. If the sign shop passes those four audits with no discrepancies consecutively, the second year they can be allowed to drop to two audits.
There are a great many variables that affect the pricing of the program so it wouldn’t be practical for me to post pricing here. I will be glad to provide you a proposal if you would like to email me a request. The email is:
philh@productsafet.com.
Geraldi,
I think I’d like to join you at that observation.
Very interesting. You are right, the product listing was a little restrictive for changes/new products. But at the time was the best solution to meet product completion dates.
The Sign Shop program sounds like a good offering.
Thanks,
Eric
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Geraldi,
There are inspectors across the United States that don't fully understand the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) System. There are 15 NRTL's of those, only 7 are authorized by OSHA to certify to UL48. Of those 7 I am only aware of 3 including MET that offer sign shops.
Here http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html is the link that explains the NRTL program. All of the NRTL's use the same UL standards to certify equipment. So technically, one could say a product is UL certified, Underwriters Laboratories testing division just didn't perform the review. It has been my experience that "UL certified" is just a term to mean third party certified. Most of us use facial tissue to blow our nose, but we refer to that as a Kleenex even if its another brand.
Regardless, if your signs are MET Listed, the inspectors are required to accept the equipment. They may still tag you for the installation though.
Brian,
MET was the nations first Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory. We've had the capability to list signs for some time. We just were'nt interested in developing a sign shop program. We continued to get calls from deserate sign manufacturers looking for an alternative to UL. I've already heard everything negative you can say about UL. Last month I recieved a call and we decided to finally establish the program for sign manufactures to at least have an alternative.
The direct answer to your question is that we tell you up front how much it will cost. We don't have any hidden fee's. We don't have an annual fee. We can't work for free Brian and it is very expensive to maintain our accredidation as an NRTL.
To ANYONE out there, if your are happy with the testing lab you are with I would advise you to stay. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But if your not, you now have an alternative.
While working at that large national sign company that closed down back in January, we used an alternative listing agency for several sign designs we had. We went with Intertek/ETL in a time crunch as they had a shorter lead time for testing the designs (and were less expensive) than UL. This allowed listing a like family of signs (mostly incorporating gas pricers that didn't have UL themselves). Acceptance of the alternate mark was a concern, but to my knowledge we had no issues in the field of it being allowed. Intertek, and I imagine MET also, offered assistance should that case arise, to ensure acceptance. This is in their interest to educate and inform people.
Challenging with ETL was that we listed a design--say a family of similar signs with gas pricers or alternate lighting. We could add to the listing if we had a similar variation without additional testing. But it was not like being a UL shop where you could label anything that met the requirements. For example, to do something we had not listed yet channel letters would have involved submitting the design and possibly testing (temperature, water exclusion....). That's just the way they were set up. It was possible to get blanket listing by doing a large submittal, but we did not get that far into it. Does listing under MET allow the whole shop to produce listed products, per UL48, or is it more case-by-case? What does the startup/initial certification look like?
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Did you just propose the first hybrid system? Watch out man, GM will make you and your idea disappear.
I think GM has enough to worry about now....like keeping THEMSELVES from disappearing....
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OK, Heres a dumb question that I should know. What is the differnce between marker and bullseye. I am realtively new and have only worked with and replaced kulka lamp holders. The kind that after punching the D hole you just snap them in. I have worked with some tombstone style as well.
BTW thanks for the response Eric. Was just reading a little about Blair Companies in one of the latest mags during a morning "office" visit.
Take Care
MB
Bullseye has the lamp perpendicular to the raceway cover. Marker is "Tombstone", so the lamp is parallel to the plane of the cover.
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Hi Folks,
Bidding our first retrofit from magnetic ballast T12 lamps to electrinic ballast with T8 lamps. My question to you fine folks is this,...... my distributor offers T8 sockets from France in what appears to be 2 configurations: a "Marker" type and a "Bullseye" type. Both types have both the fixed end and the spring end. Which one would be used for a retrofit and will I have to replace the socket raceways?
Thanks
Mike B
Big River Sign Co.
Should not have to replace the raceways; they are made to fit in the same D-hole. As to which configuration, depends on if they were markers or bullseyes to start with...
Be aware the wiring is likely different so you aren't gonna replace just the sockets, but probably rewire the whole thing.
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Does anyone know who holds the Dollar General account?
ImagePoint did. Haven't heard much about it since it closed down.
Undercover Boss & FastSigns
in General Message Board
Posted
Didn't see the episode, but it is pretty cookie cutter format. Not a lot of in-depth detail of each industry...it's all people stories. They seem to cherry pick (deserving) people to meet and then help out at the reveal.