saneon
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Posts posted by saneon
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Something that is often overlooked in this discussion is that the mosque is already there and has been there since before 9/11.
This is not a new mosque to be built *on the site* of 9/11 as people make it sound - but within a block or two. It was an old bank or bookstore or something that they've been in for some time and are now trying to reconstruct on the same site. This fact should vastly change the tone of the discussion, but doesn't because people prefer to be mad or worried about something.
Don't get me wrong - I would never say that building a new mosque right by Ground Zero would be a good idea, but that's not what is being proposed. This particular mosque already exists - it just doesn't look like one - and they are paying for everything themselves. This is not some taxpayer funded pet project. So the question is really "does the city grant a permit to upgrade and existing mosque, paid for entirely by the applicant?".
I personally regard all religious buildings equally and if I was offered a contract to work on one, would charge the same as I would anyone else. if they can pay, I'll do it. In fact, we just supplied hundreds of feet of outdoor accent lighting for a pretty spectacular looking temple in India and were part of a large retrofit of some big Protestant church in Germany.
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Are you an American Marko ? Just curious , I know you live in Canada.
This Mosque would not be just some benign religious building . Many Islamists (especially those responsible for 9/11) would view this building as a trophy commemorating a victory over the "infedels". And I believe would be the ultimate insult to the people who lost loved ones at that site.
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I can't believe what I'm seeing with the people who would vote yes. There is a difference between having the right and doing something with it, with rights comes responsibility and this whole situation is insensitive to what happened back on 9-11-2001. Now I'm waiting to hear where the money comes from. This mosque is nothing more than a big trophy and recruiting tool for more terrorists. They can't build this damn thing somewhere else, they don't have any decency?
I hope whoever takes these jobs on, their pictures are plastered all over the news so we know who to boycott and put out of business
I totally agree. In my opinion there is a definate "in your face" agenda hidden in a cloak of religious freedom and tolerance. Obama should take a moment to put himself in the shoes of the people who were directly affected by 9/11 and understand that this would be almost unbearable for these people to see the Mosque built there. It would be like building a monument to the Nazi party in Aushwitz and telling the Jews that Hitler and a couple dozen of his buddies were the bad ones and ruined it for the rest of them. Some things should not be done just because they are extremely insensitive.
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Thanks guys and gal. I spent most of the weekend recovering from my night out at the House of Blues on friday. Corona and jaeger bombs for 4 hours makes for a wicked hangover.
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LOL
I have left charred fingerprints on more tubes than I care to count.
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Great idea !
3 keys to successful glass blowing
1. Relax
2. Be patient
3. Let gravity do the work
Oh yeah , and the ability to tolerate the occasional 3rd degree burn
Good luck !
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My point is it seems that everytime Eric draws attention to the obvious bias slant of the trade mags you are there to chime in about what a dinosaur ccfl's are and LED's are the savior of the sign industry and our planet . I don't discount the viability of LED's for some applications just don't make it seem as though neon and cathode manufacturers should just roll over and die because the SOT thinks we should . You seem to think that neon should be limited in use to specialty art peices or some retro makeovers and I think that is bs.
Im not trying to be an ass I am just protecting the integrity of my trade . I have over 20 years of experience in this industry and I know for a fact that I can produce lamps that will outlast and out perform any LED manufacturers product.
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I'm going to sleep better tonight knowing that Marko has decreed that neon shall live .
The only thing wrong with your comparison of neon to dot matrix printers and cloth diapers is that neon is still the superior choice for many applications over the new tech but you won't get that info from these advertising rags because it doesn't pay the bills.
The days of drafting unique and original ideas seem to be gone along with the journeyman craftsmen that had the skill set to make it happen. The industry is now flooded with sign hacks that have the " we'll make your sign in 48 hours or less or its free" motto. Throw together another cookie cutter design, slap some glorified rope lights in it and call it a sign. "HERE'S YOUR SIGN"
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I am with Sean. An 18 or 20mm lamp with beefed up electrodes would last longer than the sign that it is contained in and would be efficient as hell. As for the large diameter tubing being to difficult to work with, I think this industry has too many unqualified hacks that produce inferior lamps and care very little about the damage they are doing to an entire industry.
There are good cathode craftsmen out there that are passionate about their trade ,you just have to find them.
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I would love to know the reason too. Do you know if all illuminated signs are prohibited or is neon being singled out ?
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Check out the cover of the August edition of THE SOT when it comes out. "LIGHT FROM CCFL'S CURES CANCER" :) Nice huh . I slipped them a $ 20
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Erik for President
He's got my vote.
You hit the nail on the head Eric. I think its safe to say that the "green" movement has little to do with saving the planet and is nothing more than a marketing tactic .
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Hi Guys. Been a while since I posted anything but I am calling on all my sign buddies, those I know and those I don't know to pray for my good friend Ed Waldrum. He is extremely ill and needs the power of team prayer. How about sending up your best prayer on his behalf. Ed taught me everything I know about the neon business and tube bending. Many of us cross paths with people in our lifetimes who make a difference in who we are and who we become.....Ed was one of those people to me. Let's pray.
count me in Dave :) and God bless .
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Boy everyone is asleep these days. I'm going to run out of life preservers one day, or the urge to toss them out when one is needed.
Maybe I should go back to gaming forums, that's always a thought. Think It might be more healthier for me.
Your efforts are much appreciated Eric. I wish there were more voices coming from within the industry that questioned the validity of all the BS. I'm sure the 'Signs of the Times' isn't going to do or say anything that might affect the advertising dollars that are rolling in. I quit receiving the SOT about 2 years ago for this very reason.
The sad thing is if the sheep keep beleiving the propaganda there won't be a decision to make on light sources in a few years. I have been a neon and cathode manufacturer for 23 years now and I have a 10 year old son who asks me at least once a week when i am going to teach him. He wants to do what I do :) Not sure if thats what I want for him at this point .If things stay as they are and neon continues to take the brunt of the LED assault there won't be any young up and comers to take the reigns .
Maybe if enough of us make some noise people will start to listen .
Thanks for your comments Eric and for providing a platform for us to express our veiws.
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Oh come on - GE and Philips are going to have $30.00 LED light bulbs you are going to be forced to buy in 2 years because incandescent is going to be outlawed.... I think it is so funny.
And dont get me started on GE and politics - what about CREE and politics - much bigger joke. Hell even the California Energy Commission's lab the California Lighting Technology Center (CLTC) is bordering on corrupt. This university will evaluate your products and tell the world how great they are if you give them $20,000!!!! Great state school and great tax funded program - only $20,000
I am packing up cases of incandescent bulbs and will sell them for $2.00 vs $1.00 - great mark up!!! I figure I could resell enough to smart people and get enough side cash to pay CLTC $20,000 for a mention.
Dont get me wrong - saving power is a great goal but it can be done with neon, CCFL, flourescent and....yes, LEDs. But come on - GE charges a ridiculous amount for their products! Their 60 Watt power supply is almost 2X the price of ours - now that just doesnt make sense....oh I forgot, they need the extra cash to fund political campaigns!!!
So I will leak it here - Axiom NZ and AoTuroaLED will be introducing a product that is 2X and 10X brighter and much lower cost... our goal is to make $ and cents make sense!
I used GE when LED's were first coming on the market because there were so many new startups how was I supposed to know who would be around in five years to warranty their product if LED's started dropping like flies. GE was at least well known, but they scammed everyone by making us buy their wire, their connectors, their idiotic power supplies with dip switches, and their pliers for the warranty to be in effect.
We sold a job last month with black by day, white at night faces using perforated black film over white plex, lighting them with white LED's. The customer complained about it being too dim.
Chase Bank found out the hardway that that spec combination does'nt work too. The next job that you get specifying day/night faces try double stroke EGL designer 7100 white neon lamps . Problem solved :)
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You forgot all that money the government is GIVING them.
Another bulls**t propaganda Spam.
Kinda funny because they were here trying to push thier Lead free tubing, telling us they are Pro flourescent lighting.
Exactly, Let's dig a tad bit deeper.
Guess who is one of Obama's Economic Recovery Advisors? GE CEO Jeff Immelt
Guess who receives a TON of stimulas money and federal guarantees? The stock value for the company has fallen in half. Mr. Immelt has been pushing hard to receive stimulas money and has been a huge voice to support the Stimulas bill. "to put together swat teams to get stimulus money, and [identify] who to fire if they don't get the money,"
I thought this was an interesting quote about them. "The best way to think of GE is as a finance company masquerading as a manufacturing company. This was essentially the business model of GM as well, except GE is better at it. "
Cap & Trade, is an ideology to reduce carbon emissions by having a "cap" on the amount of emissions that companies are allowed to extend into the atmosphere. Companies will pay big money for emissions allowances as set forth by Congress or the President. We still don't know those details. We the people will be paying more for products if this program is put into place.
What is GE's roll in Cap in Trade?
GE is the biggest manufacturer of so called "clean" energy equipment, windmills, natural gas, nuke power, etc. So if companies have to abide by the Cap & Trade Law, guess who get's to make BILLIONS? Is this why GE is on their absurd marketing BS? Capitalism is great, but who's going to pay for it at the end?
ENVIRONMENT
GE even created a brand new division in 2005 called GE Ecomagination, it's commitment to address challenges such as the need for cleaner, more efficient sources of energy, reduced emissions and abundant sources of clean water. The Ironic part?
The EPA has a listing of what they call "Superfund sites". "These are sites that companies have polluted with dangerous toxins and have been designated by the EPA to clean them up. GE has many sites like this but two of the largest are the Hudson River in NY and the Housatonic River in Massachusetts. GE has been fighting the EPA against having to clean up these two sites for 25 years. Their plant in NY left carcinogenic PCBs in the Hudson River – known to cause cancer in animals and known as carcinogens in humans. Funny, Immelt touts clean water when GE did not want to clean up the very water their plant made a toxic mess of. They finally started cleaning up the Hudson River on May 15, 2009 – yes literally just last week."
GE has another division called "GE AES GHGS" or Green House Gas Services. They can help companies reduce green house gas emissions by purchasing ‘credits’ from GE’s GHGS.
“Greenhouse Gas Services certifies each one of its GHG credits to a rigorous Standard of Practice to ensure the environmental and scientific integrity of each credit. As a result, companies that purchase GHG credits from Greenhouse Gas Services can be certain that what they are doing is truly helping to reduce climate change-causing greenhouse gases.”
Hey more ways to make money off Cap & Trade!!!!
LED's in our tiny electric sign & lighting industry is so small compared to the bigger picture of things. I feel, "tiny"
Capitalism is great but it doesn't work when large companies like GE have the power to manipulate policy.
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Driving around at night from city to city thinking about all those dark sky A holes I thought of something.
They are so concerned about "signs" creating to much "light pollution". Well Have you ever looked at a city or even a town at night from a distance? They want to change the direction of the lights to shine on the ground so they can get a better look at the stars, well they have a bigger problem. All the street lights and parking lot lights do just as they want and the reflected light off the blacktop and concrete create the glow they are talking about.
My peronal opinion is that if they want to look at the stars, Go to the Fn desert or on top of a mountain and stare at the sky. I think they are a bunch of dumb ass' that have nothing better to do.
Just my .02
Now Sean you know they can't shove their agenda down your throat from the fn desert. By the way how was the fishing while you were here ?
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Does the article specify what Dr Aeling is a doctor of ? Probably an out of work artist or music major who found a spot on 3M LED's payroll. You know Eric for every person like you that can see this as nonsensical bs there are 30 people that will buy into it.
Light Management Strategies
By Dr. Ellen Aeling
Page 50
http://www.kenilworth.com/publications/smc/de/201005/pageflip.html
It wasn't until I read the last part of this article my suspicions came to surface.
It's ridiculous when you start to hear about fluorescent & neon having 2/3's of their light for a sign cabinet heading in the wrong direction, whereas LED's facing one direction have an advantage. Then, "typically" fluorescent lamp light bounces 3 to 10 times before escaping out the sign face.
Furthermore, it goes on to say LED's are better to aim light in a single direction over fluorescent & neon lamps. Yes this is true, LED's have a very narrow beam of light, but as stated Fluorescent & neon lamps have 360 degrees of light, with a crap load of reflection bouncing all over a damn can lighting up that sign face. Because of this it's rare to get hot spots as you would with LED's.
What cracks me up is the fact that this crackhead brings up their engineering figures to illustrate their point on light reflection and absorption. I'm willing to bet they never once EVER built a cabinet to test their trinket theories.
UNIFORMITY
This part is a riote too. They start to say you should place LED strips on the sides, or returns to create better uniformity. HUH??? Didn't you just say LED's are already better for direction facing up towards the sign face? So now we have to place them on the sides as well to help out uniform light??? Well....don't Fluorescent and Neon Lamps already to that? That's right 2/3's, of their light go out in useless directions, bouncing 3 to 10 times before going out. CRACKHEAD!
Then, special mirror reflectors should be built as well. HUH????
I love how at the end of the article she says "LED's are more efficent when kept cool (with no temp value), Fluorescent are kept efficient when kept warm but inefficient when below 40F". What??? No temperature value for the LED's??? Why is that? Could it be because you strictly wrote this whole article to pump your companies LED line (3M LED Flexible Light Mat). Why the picture of channel letters on the article face? Hmmmmmmm
Again, I don't think these people ever built a cabinet to test their theories. How many times have we ever made calculations of what something should be, or how something should act? But when it came to the real world, the result was different? Raise you hand people.
They even have these junk infomercial articles in Canada too? I thought it was just here in the good ol US of A.
CRACKHEAD! Maybe her last name should be "ailing"
Maybe if they wanted to make a better point, or have better cred they should have talked about narrow cabinets or panels where the LED's would be greatly beneficial. Instead, they painted this story with a broad stroke brush when it should have been a narrow stroke.
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Are you referring to the test that is conducted indoors in a controlled climate ? Thats not a test. Lets see how it perfofms outdoors during a florida summer . Lots of heat ,humidity, rain and lightning. Ask the people at Disney how well leds are performing here . I would take that bet
No, I am talking about the test they do at 80C or 176F and 80% humidity. And the real world testing we have in place in San Diego (the Great White Hope test on this website), Auckland New Zealand (a bit wetter than Florida), Las Vegas Nevada (more extreme ambient temp 28F to 115F), Melbourne Australia (a bit hotter and more humid than Florida)...and the hundreds of other applications in Hawaii, Mexico, South America, and Canada that see a bit more moisture.
Nichia is a bit different than other LED chip companies - they run some pretty crazy and extreme continuous testing data in Tokushima Japan - I have been there and it is a little crazy how much environmental testing they do. Good to be partnered with someone like this.
And for your reference - i think Florida is one of our larger installation areas in the USA - here is a recent project we did
Wow thats amazing . I can tell by your green hair that you are very proud of your product. I was just at the isa international led show here in orlando and i saw dozens of your competitors making the same claims of industry superiority. Marketing your product as a way to reduce the carbon foot print is laughable but if thats what it takes to sell it than i guess thats what you have to do. The led industry as a whole is a giant propoganda machine that sells their product to uneducated end users that have been force fed a lot of BS.
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I see, I keep forgetting that outside the sign industry the classifications change, where for signs it has to stay at 60watts to conform to the class 2 wireing codes.
On another note what would the low output of the one in the picture be used for?
They use it to show their clients what the lumen output of the 7500 lumen version will look like in 6 months
Wow - I should have Nichia jump on here and bet you a ton of money - or just go look at the Great White Hope and see our performance.
Are you referring to the test that is conducted indoors in a controlled climate ? Thats not a test. Lets see how it perfofms outdoors during a florida summer . Lots of heat ,humidity, rain and lightning. Ask the people at Disney how well leds are performing here . I would take that bet
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Axiom NZ LED and AoTuroaLED Announce the Green Step Forward Incentive for May 2010-- Offer discounts to accelerate Carbon Footprint reduction
-- Both companies confirm Patent protectionsAUCKLAND, New Zealand and LAS VEGAS, May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Axiom NZ LED of Las Vegas, Nevada and AoTuroaLED of Auckland, New Zealand announced today that the companies are offering a "Green Step Forward" program for the month of May 2010 that facilitates the worldwide effort to reduce one's Carbon Footprint. As the use of fossil fuels continues to increase globally and power prices continue to climb there are international efforts to reduce carbon emissions such as using green energy efficient technologies that use sustainable low carbon footprint approaches to manufacturing, packaging, and delivery.
The "Green Step Forward" program allows customers to receive up to 20% off the Axiom NZ white LED products for signage lighting applications replacing neon and fluorescent and 20% off its AoTuroaLED retrofit kits for fluorescent T-Bar or suspended ceiling interior light fixtures and parking garage or car park lighting fixtures. The program is valid from May 1 – May 31, and is not valid with any other coupon or incentive.
"The 'Green Step Forward' program allows customers to receive a significant discount on our high brightness and low energy LED products to either continue or to start reducing one's Carbon Footprint," stated Manuel Lynch, CEO and Director of AoTuroaLED and Axiom NZ LED. "Sometimes it isn't just the desire to want to reduce carbon emissions that drives people to make the change, it has to be assisted by an incentive that affects the pocket book as well. People like to see their decisions turn the bottom line green as well."
The companies' products are manufactured in "100% Pure" New Zealand and incorporate the use of several patented technologies.
The two companies further confirmed their commitment to help their customers maintain positive cash flow and/or "Staying in the Green". Axiom NZ LED and AoTuroaLED have their customers' best interests in mind to prevent legal issues and to help save their customers' money through offering LED technology that drastically saves money through lowered maintenance costs.
Numerous LED lighting products with inferior quality, shortened lifetime, and patent infringing technologies made in China have entered the market. These products present a tremendous risk to customers' financial responsibility to support maintenance and warranty claims as a result of shortened lifetime or inferior performance as well as providing customers legal protections against infringing a patent. Axiom NZ LED and AoTuroaLED reconfirmed that they are continuing to support the use of high reliability long-lifetime patented LED technology of Nichia LED of Japan and innovative patented weather resistant connector technology by Zeirick of New York. Nichia and Zeirick technologies are used on all Axiom NZ LED and AoTuroaLED white light products.
"It is illegal to sell, buy or even use a knock-off or imitation purse," joked Stephanie Prather, Director of AoTuroaLED Limited. "Knock-off purses are sold on street corners by people avoiding the law. Both sellers as well as buyers know it is illegal, yet they do it anyway. Most times companies are unaware the LED products they bought are cheap and usually inferior knock-offs. Axiom NZ LED and AoTuroaLED using Nichia of Japan LEDs and Zeirick connectors is akin to playing sports fair and honest. Other companies that use LED or electronic products that infringe patents are no different than the illegal practice of playing professional sports using steroids."
All of the AoTuroaLED and Axiom NZ LED white LED products use Nichia products and are protected by numerous US Patents including the one with the most extensive coverage, US Patent 5998925.
"We find it amusing that knock off technologies are claiming that Nichia LED patents are expiring—they are not," added Dane Cardone, CEO of AoTuroaLED USA. "That would be like suggesting that Microsoft's patents are expiring because they invented their software in the 1970s. They continue to enhance their intellectual property portfolio by patenting more technologies. Microsoft recently issued a license to a HTC, a Chinese/Taiwanese mobile phone company, that was infringing their patents for a product that uses a Google operating system. Nichia like Microsoft protects its intellectual property – at AoTuroaLED and Axiom NZ LED we are proud to use Nichia LEDs."
To receive the "Green Step Forward" program discounts customers simply have to watch the 60 second YouTube video to receive the discount code word. See the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=181itiVfh9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=181itiVfh9k
The Green Step Forward program is offered on the following company websites:
- http://www.AxiomLED.com Global
- http://www.AxiomLED.co.nz New Zealand Only
- http://www.AoTuroaLED.co.nz New Zealand Only
- http://www.AoTuroaLED.com North America
- http://www.AoTuroaLED.nl Europe
RELATED LINKS
"GREEN STEP FORWARD" you guys crack me up with these sales tactics.It is amazing how eco contiuous you LED guys really are,I bet you have a couple of prius' in the garage too. Will you be going to the Whitehouse to protest oil drilling in the gulf ? You can call your sales pitch what you want to but LEDS are not greener than neon and cold cathode. I think Al Gore is looking for a job maybe you can prop him up as your front man.
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I see, I keep forgetting that outside the sign industry the classifications change, where for signs it has to stay at 60watts to conform to the class 2 wireing codes.
On another note what would the low output of the one in the picture be used for?
They use it to show their clients what the lumen output of the 7500 lumen version will look like in 6 months
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Where are you? What's new? What are you doing, what new products are you making?
I'm hearing and reading a lot going on the LED realm of things, but what are YOU doing? TALK TO ME!
New trannies, higher quality phosphor coated lamps, auto benders, induction heaters (*Cough* Gar *Cough*), CCFL general lighting products....something?!??!
Let me know you're still alive and kicking!
Hell, if anyone out there is still bending at least just reply and tell me "I bend, thank you" and hit reply.
Your silence lately is killing me! Do I need to feel check your pulse?
Hey, Eric
Still alive in Orlando. We are coming down the homestretch on the Chase bank changeover and are gearing up for a large resort expansion project with about 22,000 feet of cold cathode . Except for Chase , we are doing very little neon for channel letters and we rely heavily on repairs and revamps for Disney and Universal. I am relatively new to the SS and was thinking the same as you. I read alot about over hyped LED products but see almost nothing from those who advocate and produce ccfl products , which is still the tried and tested superior. If you are going to manufacture a product, I think its in your best interest to sell it , dont you ? Or you can just lay down and let the LED propoganda train run over you.
Thanks Eric , I appreciate the forum.
Randy
South Atlantic Neon & Cold Cathode Inc.
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GE seems to be the only company who has come up with have decent packing for LEDs. Placing exposed circuit boards (even sealed with a conformal coating) in outdoor signs is not good design practice. It might save you money, but in the long run the LEDs will fail.
I honestly don't think LEDs save much if any money over other efficient types of lighting, really the advantages are extremely long life and the small package size.
I think most LED lamp fixture manufactures are "Cheating" - they put LED lighting in fixtures with well designed optics and compare to a traditional lamp with no optics and say wow look at the energy savings.
Two large problems facing the LED industry are reliability - some product doesn't even last a year and consistent package design - manufacturers keep changing the package design. HO lamps circa 1960's are still available. LED lamp packages circa august 2009 may not be available in September.
"Cheating" is an understatement. Lying might be a better choice of words. They have created an illusion and have been deemed the "green choice" by political manipulation. Now they can overcharge for an inferior light source all in the name of saving the planet . What a load of crap.
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DOE gets upset when people use LED systems that are not made by CREE - yes thats right...they have invested so much R&D dollars in CREE that if you dont use them you are using crap. Lets see - Nichia's parts are consistently higher output and they are much bigger than CREE - probably 5X bigger!
Oh and one more thing - Nichia isnt a USA public company...now how would any politician make any money off a private Japanese company - you have to make money off CREE in the stock market!!!
The reports done by PNL are fantastic - in fact they are so great that I might let you know that their recommendations ARE NOT used by Pulte Homes, the most energy efficient homebuilder in the world - why??? Because what the DOE recommends is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE AND NOT PRACTICAL.
In fact Pulte Homes far exceeds the performance metrics set forth by Energy Star and the DOE.
So on one hand people can be upset about the debate on healthcare but we cant see a parallel to what the DOE and PNL are doing? Lets get the government involved in lighting....hmmm...now that is smart.
Having been the Director of Technology for Sea Gull Lighting, the world's leading manufacturer of energy efficient lighting, I will tell you that they never adopted using LEDs - why - because what Energy Star approved was too much money!!!
WHAT EVERYONE IS MISSING IS THAT GE SAVED THEM $X PER YEAR IN POWER - BUT WHAT DID IT COST TO INVEST TO GET THAT SAVINGS? IF THE ROI WAS MORE THAN 6 MONTHS THAN IT WAS A FOOLISH INVESTMENT IN THIS DAY AND AGE.
Oh I see , so the DOE is manipulating their numbers too .Interesting . I guess the truth lies somewhere under all of the bull crap. Bottom line is the end users are being lied to . Goes to show you that if you put enough money in the right pocket anything can become the truth
As an American would you take this job?
in General Message Board
Posted
No one is questioning their right to put it there !
What is being questioned is their motive. I'm sure the muslim leadership has to understand how devisive this decision would be. If they want to be accepted as a peace loving people than they should act like it. Show a little respect. A decision to move the Mosque to a different location would go a long way in the eyes of the American people and may help to mend our view of their ideas and beliefs.