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50% Deposit

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Recently...

We have lost too many jobs (mainly, exclusively, ship-ins for national accounts) over our 50% deposit requirement. On all business with out of state sign companies we have always required a 50% deposit. Especially if it's a company that we haven't had a long relationship with. And especially on large jobs.

Local companies that we trust and have never had a problem getting paid from - unless it's a large job - we just go do the job and pick up a check when the job is done. Never a problem. Likewise, our local companies have never bitched about giving us a 50% deposit on the larger jobs.

So my question is this: What the hell is the deal with these larger sign companies telling us that they don't do 50% deposits? ("Never have, never will")

On the other hand... I can go with no deposit and terms of 30 - 45 days... If, and only if, they can go with me nearly doubling our rate. If I gotta hang my ass out there on your job and wait to get paid - it's gonna cost ya. Or you can find someone else to install your sign. That our policy.

What say all of you?

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On the other hand... I can go with no deposit and terms of 30 - 45 days... If, and only if, they can go with me nearly doubling our rate. If I gotta hang my ass out there on your job and wait to get paid - it's gonna cost ya. Or you can find someone else to install your sign. That our policy.

unfortunately with the national ship in stuff your policy will omit you from doing their stuff. We can't afford to tell them all to get screwed like some of the shops on here so we have to be careful and watch how long we let them go.

Edited by chubbygumby

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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This is the Catch 22 of getting new business. You and the large Nat'l sign company dont have a relationship and are looking at each other thinking are they going to perform for us?

The Large Nat'l compnay knows they have the upper hand because they hold the money and decides who gets the work. Most large Nat'l sign companies have been burned by a few sign installers in their time and dont trust new companies right away.

So you have to build a good relationship with the large Nat'l company, and make sure you understand all the Terms and Conditions to work for them prior to starting work.

Follow up with the contact person you are working for and ask questions. "So I'll get paid 45 days from my invoice date or 45 days after your campany gets paid?" " Who is in charge of your payables dept and can I have their direct phone #?"

I would continue to ask for a 50% deposit, or at least get a Purchase/Work Order sent to you.

Also, make sure you CYA by taking all the precautions to protect your company such as pre-liem notices so you can take legal action on the property for non-payment. After you completed a few jobs and they've paid you on time, you can decide on the best way to move forward.

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Recently...

We have lost too many jobs (mainly, exclusively, ship-ins for national accounts) over our 50% deposit requirement. On all business with out of state sign companies we have always required a 50% deposit. Especially if it's a company that we haven't had a long relationship with. And especially on large jobs.

Local companies that we trust and have never had a problem getting paid from - unless it's a large job - we just go do the job and pick up a check when the job is done. Never a problem. Likewise, our local companies have never bitched about giving us a 50% deposit on the larger jobs.

So my question is this: What the hell is the deal with these larger sign companies telling us that they don't do 50% deposits? ("Never have, never will")

On the other hand... I can go with no deposit and terms of 30 - 45 days... If, and only if, they can go with me nearly doubling our rate. If I gotta hang my ass out there on your job and wait to get paid - it's gonna cost ya. Or you can find someone else to install your sign. That our policy.

What say all of you?

I say this, at least two of us are trying to run a professional business. I have been in construction for 40 years and served as a journyman is (3) different trades and hold a state issused general contractors license. I for the life of me can not figure out why the sign installation companies will accept this BS from the national companies. No other trade will work without a draw and $$ within 30 days of completion. We all know they need us!!! If we will stick together and all stand by this standard we will all be better off. If not we will all be caught in another ImagePoint mess. I have worked for the national and local companies as an employee and a sub. These national companies are making money off of your money you are owed. I tell them if I wanted to open a bank I would have done so, I don't make loans!!!

I agree 1000% if you don't like my terms go get you a chicken sh-t jake leg installer and loose my number!!!!!!

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"If we will stick together and all stand by this standard we will all be better off"

I totally agree!

I have to assume that the large sign companies are generting interest off the money they owe to other companies.

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"If we will stick together and all stand by this standard we will all be better off"

I totally agree!

I have to assume that the large sign companies are generting interest off the money they owe to other companies.

I have had some of the Imagepoint spin offs already call wanting to send work. When I stated my terms I got the typical "we do not do this and pay in 60 days". Noting but rehersed speach. How do they know they pay in 60 days many of them have not even been open that long????????

Some of these may be good companies. Now is the time with the ecomomy and Imagepoint closing that we all stand up to these companies. Even if they do go to the jake legs, if won't be long before they are out of business or calling back to get the quality of work we provide.

Fellow installers, it is going to get worse with these companies, in these times if we do not take this opportunity to STOP IT NOW!!

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Recently...

We have lost too many jobs (mainly, exclusively, ship-ins for national accounts) over our 50% deposit requirement. On all business with out of state sign companies we have always required a 50% deposit. Especially if it's a company that we haven't had a long relationship with. And especially on large jobs.

Local companies that we trust and have never had a problem getting paid from - unless it's a large job - we just go do the job and pick up a check when the job is done. Never a problem. Likewise, our local companies have never bitched about giving us a 50% deposit on the larger jobs.

So my question is this: What the hell is the deal with these larger sign companies telling us that they don't do 50% deposits? ("Never have, never will")

On the other hand... I can go with no deposit and terms of 30 - 45 days... If, and only if, they can go with me nearly doubling our rate. If I gotta hang my ass out there on your job and wait to get paid - it's gonna cost ya. Or you can find someone else to install your sign. That our policy.

What say all of you?

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Absolutely get 50%! I'm dealing with several national companies that want to pay 120 days out.... and since Image Point got us for over $25,000 (OUCH), if we had gotten 50% down, it would still hurt, but not quite so much. So, our policy is now 50% up front or get someone else to do it. We are fortunate that many of our franchise customers insist on using us as the installer for their signs, so the national companies don't really complain much.

Of course, with some companies we work for and have excellent history (like Fast Signs national accounts and MC Signs) we do the work with a purchase order instead.

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I say this, at least two of us are trying to run a professional business. I have been in construction for 40 years and served as a journyman is (3) different trades and hold a state issused general contractors license. I for the life of me can not figure out why the sign installation companies will accept this BS from the national companies. No other trade will work without a draw and $$ within 30 days of completion. We all know they need us!!! If we will stick together and all stand by this standard we will all be better off. If not we will all be caught in another ImagePoint mess. I have worked for the national and local companies as an employee and a sub. These national companies are making money off of your money you are owed. I tell them if I wanted to open a bank I would have done so, I don't make loans!!!

I agree 1000% if you don't like my terms go get you a chicken sh-t jake leg installer and loose my number!!!!!!

Yep I guess you are the only 2 professionals out there. While we're at it lets all band together as a nation and stop buying gas to get them to lower the price! (that won't work and neither will sign companies band together to get a 50% deposit)

So I'll just go on running my unprofessional business like I have for the last 20 some years, and hope someday I will be as smart and professional as you.


Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

express%20neon%20sig.jpg

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As a policy we always collect 50% down with a signed contract on the individual (smaller) companies. The balance on completion / installation. The larger national accounts send us a purchase order. There are very few exceptions. If we do not get these as listed we do not do the work. Someone else may get the work but I'm not sure they will get paid for their efforts.

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I think that a lot of companies are going to start breaking conventional thinking and are going to really start thinking outside the box.

For example we require 100% prepay even on orders for 100K LED modules. The savings we offer customers are as much as 50-75% over competing products. When companies think through this they realize that while they would prefer 60 day terms they realize the money they would save by using our products is more than they could ever make off putting money in any type of 60 day term investment.

So breaking conventional paradigms usually makes people win more.

Also - must say that we are probably one of the only companies that did not get hurt by ImagePoint collapse - in fact we benefitted greatly from it - both in new opportunities and customers as well as securing a fantastic relationship with key players that we helped position into other companies.

Ask for more than 50% prepay - or get 50% upfront and balance before installation starts.

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Guest Neon4ever

What sign companies fail to understand is that without the installation contractor they are out of business. It is time for the contractor to be very discrimminate about who they do business with. There are companies out there that live to deceive and screw the contractor.

A warning: Anyone that does business with Cummings Sign Company is in for a long season of not getting paid. I think companies should

unite and warn other companies of bad company practices within sign companies.

Edited by Neon4ever

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