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UFB Fabrication

Aaaargh Aluminum prices

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So it seems that even though the American mills did not have any cost increase it seems as though they look as an excuse to raise prices.   We buy a pretty large amount locally I was wondering who the SS folks are using either regionally or nationally. As we have our delivery trucks from coast to coast rather then dead head back we can pick up 10 - 20,00 pounds on the way back.  Places we have buy us and have bought from Eastern. Alro and Haggerty. We have tried to follow most companies and use the lean way of bringing in stock say 100 sheets at a time but we need to re visit this.

BTW if you have checked your prices in the last few days sit down.  We figure between when we got a PO from the customer to ordering the material about a 5 G increase on 1 project.

 

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Heh,

Read this post and decided to call my regular plastics/alum sales and I guess their down to their last few pre-finished white alum sheets (China) and they only have 4'x10' now and their thinking it will be about 3 months until they see the next shipment of the regular 4x8's. 

He was telling me the big American company was about to close their doors in a few months because they couldn't compete with the Chinese.  So it will be interesting what happens in the next few months with pricing and how that will fluctuate

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Just called and ordered aluminum yesterday, no increase in price at my supplier as of yet.

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I happened to call SignComp because I may have a possible upcoming project. 

Supposedly their not affected by the tariffs so I guess their Aluminum is not imported.  They will have a slight increase on their products starting this April 1st of 6% but nothing to do with the Chinese deal

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Our price went from $129.00 for 4x8x.125 up to $195.00 in 2 weeks (10 sheet order) and the supplier will only commit to the price for the day quoted. They are going hog wild at our expense. I am now adding a new item to ALL of our proposals to cover any increase in material costs. I know my bigger clients will not like it but I'm not going to lose because they want to lock in the price and me pay any increases.

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On 3/14/2018 at 4:08 PM, UFB Fabrication said:

So it seems that even though the American mills did not have any cost increase it seems as though they look as an excuse to raise prices.   We buy a pretty large amount locally I was wondering who the SS folks are using either regionally or nationally. As we have our delivery trucks from coast to coast rather then dead head back we can pick up 10 - 20,00 pounds on the way back.  Places we have buy us and have bought from Eastern. Alro and Haggerty. We have tried to follow most companies and use the lean way of bringing in stock say 100 sheets at a time but we need to re visit this.

BTW if you have checked your prices in the last few days sit down.  We figure between when we got a PO from the customer to ordering the material about a 5 G increase on 1 project.

 

That sounds like price gouging to me.  Just saying.  I am checking with my vendor right now to see if they have had an increase.  I ordered some aluminum last week and the cost was the same as it was the week before.  Just checking with them to see if it has changed since I ordered last week.  I will let you know.  

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I have two main suppliers I buy from.    They both quoted me on the materials I normally buy back in January, and only one has stuck to it!  The other says they cant even come close and cannot understand how they can give me that pricing and swear it will change.

 

I just ordered the same .050 from both companies last week and there was a $9.21 difference per sheet between the 2.   With price differences like that there is no way we can afford NOT to go with the cheaper vendor.   Not only that but they also have better service and very rarely have they ever screwed up an order unlike the other.

 

As an example of a current cost similar to one listed in a post above: 4' x 10' sheet 3003 of .125 MF   $122.60 per sheet  this was purchased last week 3/12/18

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6 minutes ago, Twright said:

I have two main suppliers I buy from.    They both quoted me on the materials I normally buy back in January, and only one has stuck to it!  The other says they cant even come close and cannot understand how they can give me that pricing and swear it will change.

 

I just ordered the same .050 from both companies last week and there was a $9.21 difference per sheet between the 2.   With price differences like that there is no way we can afford NOT to go with the cheaper vendor.   Not only that but they also have better service and very rarely have they ever screwed up an order unlike the other.

 

As an example of a current cost similar to one listed in a post above: 4' x 10' sheet 3003 of .125 MF   $122.60 per sheet  this was purchased last week 3/12/18

Just curious - who is your vendor?  I need some 4' x 10' sheets for a job I am currently doing, and I haven't been able to find it for that kind of price!  Last I ordered that size the price was $150 a sheet!

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American Metal Supply out of Charlotte NC.

Keep in mind that was a quoted price to me back in January, so your pricing may be a little higher.

 

My contact there is Alicia Wilson 704-247-4920 

 

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2 minutes ago, Twright said:

American Metal Supply out of Charlotte NC.

Keep in mind that was a quoted price to me back in January, so your pricing may be a little higher.

 

My contact there is Alicia Wilson 704-247-4920 

 

Thanks!!

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Hi Everyone. A lot of your aluminum come fro us in Canada. Now your wonderful president has decided he might be adding a 10% tariff to our aluminum coming into the US.

I  understand the Canada provides 90% of the aluminum to the US. He has also talked of adding 25% to our steel also. AS of right now all these tariffs are on hold as long as he gets his own way with the NAFTA talks.

If the NAFTA gets cancelled both the US and Canada will hurt. Since much of our raw materials is exported to the US to made into items such as parts etc. and then shipped back to Canada.

Expect it, to get worst.

Presently here in Canada, I have been filling in part time (I have been retired for 8yrs) at a sign company, that due to costs is started making his fillers out of steel and having them galvanized. Honestly I do not agree with it, its like going backwards again.

Good Luck everyone on both sids

Dave

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8 minutes ago, wizzy00 said:

Hi Everyone. A lot of your aluminum come fro us in Canada. Now your wonderful president has decided he might be adding a 10% tariff to our aluminum coming into the US.

I  understand the Canada provides 90% of the aluminum to the US. He has also talked of adding 25% to our steel also. AS of right now all these tariffs are on hold as long as he gets his own way with the NAFTA talks.

If the NAFTA gets cancelled both the US and Canada will hurt. Since much of our raw materials is exported to the US to made into items such as parts etc. and then shipped back to Canada.

Expect it, to get worst.

Presently here in Canada, I have been filling in part time (I have been retired for 8yrs) at a sign company, that due to costs is started making his fillers out of steel and having them galvanized. Honestly I do not agree with it, its like going backwards again.

Good Luck everyone on both sids

Dave

We typically don't get political on this website, but I can't wait to see the responses this gets!!  LOL

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Dave,

 

Our previous wonderful Presidents have let other countries have their "way" with us.  We haven't had fair trade up until now.  When has NAFTA ever benefited our Farmers, factories Automobile plants etc for us?  Our farmers are suffering and losing their farms, our plants ar just about shut down in the last 30 years.  Our largest steel plants are about to shut their doors. 

Other countries tax our exports 25%+, we tax them 2.5%.  Is this fair?  Does Canada do this?

When you say "his way" you mean our way, because this President, our President is following through on promises he ran on and was voted in to fulfill, like him or not.

 

Cost for us may go up for the short term (hopefully), and that's something we may just have to bite on a piece of leather for a bit,...but this is to get/rebuild our industry back up because we're losing it.

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4 minutes ago, Erik Sine said:

Dave,

 

Our previous wonderful Presidents have let other countries have their "way" with us.  We haven't had fair trade up until now.  When has NAFTA ever benefited our Farmers, factories Automobile plants etc for us?  Our farmers are suffering and losing their farms, our plants ar just about shut down in the last 30 years.  Our largest steel plants are about to shut their doors. 

Other countries tax our exports 25%+, we tax them 2.5%.  Is this fair?  Does Canada do this?

When you say "his way" you mean our way, because this President, our President is following through on promises he ran on and was voted in to fulfill, like him or not.

 

Cost for us may go up for the short term (hopefully), and that's something we may just have to bite on a piece of leather for bit, but this is to get/rebuild our industry back up because we're losing it.

Well 15 minutes from the shop is Granite City steel. It has been closed during the last president's term.  They are re-opening as we speak. From my understanding is that almost all aluminum sheet goods are imported.  How as a country did we let this happen. 

My dad retired from Mcdonnell Douglas/Boeing.  It was his 3rd job after pumping gas.  Now the Government has gave contracts to build fighter jets to other countries. Is Airbus going to build the next Airforce 1?   We have to recover from a service industry style job future.  Need to start teaching kids in Jr and Sr High school how to work for a living and that moms basement until you are 36 is not a career.  EVERY company owner I talk to is begging for new employees that can work.

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On a side note. 

I have to chuckle.....

I read somewhere on some social media site post that ISA will be having a meet/discussion at the Expo to talk aluminum.  Also, that their so connected to "DC" and that they will be working with politicians to get things turned around.  What does that mean? 

Does that mean their position is that they want to create/aid opposition to the tariffs, or help build our industry and plants back up from the ashes?

Because right now at their their show it's a CHINA expo, with very little "America"

ISA can do their part by promoting and giving discounts to all American Vendors/Exhibitors if they really cared.  I bet our Vendors get taxed when they go to Signs CHINA Expo

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11 minutes ago, Erik Sine said:

On a side note. 

I have to chuckle.....

I read somewhere on some social media site post that ISA will be having a meet/discussion at the Expo to talk aluminum.  Also, that their so connected to "DC" and that they will be working with politicians to get things turned around.  What does that mean? 

Does that mean their position is that they want to create/aid opposition to the tariffs, or help build our industry and plants back up from the ashes?

Because right now at their their show it's a CHINA expo, with very little "America"

ISA can do their part by promoting and giving discounts to all American Vendors/Exhibitors if they really cared.  I bet our Vendors get taxed when they go to Signs CHINA Expo

To follow that line of thought I would bet that 90% of equipment, material or assembled with stuff from offshore

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16 minutes ago, Erik Sine said:

Dave,

 

Our previous wonderful Presidents have let other countries have their "way" with us.  We haven't had fair trade up until now.  When has NAFTA ever benefited our Farmers, factories Automobile plants etc for us?  Our farmers are suffering and losing their farms, our plants ar just about shut down in the last 30 years.  Our largest steel plants are about to shut their doors. 

Other countries tax our exports 25%+, we tax them 2.5%.  Is this fair?  Does Canada do this?

When you say "his way" you mean our way, because this President, our President is following through on promises he ran on and was voted in to fulfill, like him or not.

 

Cost for us may go up for the short term (hopefully), and that's something we may just have to bite on a piece of leather for bit, but this is to get/rebuild our industry back up because we're losing it.

Amen & hallelujah!!!  Yes, OUR wonderful President!  And he is wonderful!!  Someone that finally has a backbone & could care less about the PC crap of the past.  These Countries think they can tax and tariff us to death and we are supposed to just sit back and take it up the tail pipe and not reciprocate!!??  Not anymore!  GYNORMOUS trade deficits all around.  We have somebody in there now that is standing up for business people - and the rest of the Country - and letting those Countries know we will no longer be taken advantage of.  NAFTA is not a good deal and has let other Countries walk all over us.  I am all for trade, but it has to be fair and equitable for ALL parties, not just everybody BUT the United States.  This President gets that!  Thank GOD!  Yes, we may have to pay a little more until this all shakes out, but I pray he holds Canada and everybody else's feet to the fire until they make a good deal for both parties.  Let the deal making begin!  Our U.S. aluminum and steel manufacturers will now have a level playing field instead of having to shut their doors.  That's a good thing!  

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Tariffs

The dictum preached by professors since the 1960's is that the "lowest cost producer" should be rewarded with everyone's business.  And within a range of activity there is truth in that.

But if you examine the past 50+ years what actually has happened is that "you imported the metals (or cars or whatever product...) and you exported your jobs..."

Ross Perot had it right... "We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. It's pretty simple: If you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor,...have no health care —that's the most expensive single element in making a car— have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south.   

...when [Mexico's] jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it's leveled again. But in the meantime, you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals."  -  (Wickipedia).

Any monkey can extrapolate that if you raise the cost of an item with a tariff that you will increase the cost of that item to the consumer.  “Thanks oh wise and humble professor...” 

But if you look at the second order effect of exporting our jobs you will also increase our unemployment....which leads to third order effects of family stress, violence, drug addiction, increased welfare costs, increased health costs, increased mental health costs, polarization in politics and class warfare etc etc.  Take away the jobs and look out for the long term consequential and collateral effects!

From Wickipedia: “The Moynihan Report generated considerable controversy and has had long lasting and important influence. Writing to Lyndon Johnson, Moynihan argued that without access to jobs and the means to contribute meaningful support to a family, black men would become systematically alienated from their roles as husbands and fathers, which would cause rates of divorce, child abandonment and out-of-wedlock births to skyrocket in the black community (a trend that had already begun by the mid-1960s), leading to vast increases in the numbers of households headed by females and the higher rates of poverty, lower educational outcomes, and inflated rates of child abuse that are allegedly associated with these factors.” 

All of us have been paying a tremendous "hidden" premium in these pervasive second order and third order costs!

Sugar can improve the taste...or too much sugar can ruin the recipe.  Sure, we can buy Chinese products cheaper at

Walmart...but what good is that if half of the state of Michigan has abandoned factories and many of their citizens are unemployed or underemployed?

 

For the past 50 + years the citizens of our country have been drinking the kool aid promoted by weasel politicians who are puppets of corporate lobbyists and naive college economics professors!

We don't want to cut off all trade...and we don't want to establish a monopoly.  The best situation is a "recipe" that protects our security and protects our jobs within a common sense range.   

But what about our domestic exporters?  If their costs go up due to the tariffs won’t their sales drop?  Won’t we lose domestic jobs from this action? 

Yes, and that is where the various interests have to be balanced to determine the right “recipe” for the country as a whole.  

When 70,000 steelworkers lost their jobs in the 1960’s to Japan...and textile workers....and autoworkers...and appliance makers etc etc ...the choice was made to abandon our industries and jobs.  What are the long term effects for our country?

“Well everyone will just need to go to college and they will have even better jobs than the ones that were exported...correct?”  

Well that doesn’t seem to be happening .   The reality is that education keeps getting more dollars and more teachers with little improvement. Big city crime, death in the ghetto, and the opioid crisis continues.  And, by the way, many college graduates can’t find a job that allows them to pay off their education loans...         

The unfortunate history of thinking that a "little bit of foreign competition is good...so even more must be better" is naive and dangerous.  This applies to immigration and government regulations and foreign ownership of production as well.  (Remember when we were afraid that the Japanese were going to buy so many factories and so much real estate that we would eventually be a subsidiary of Japan?) 

A balanced tariff policy can be a part of the “recipe” to prevent further economic cancer that has been consuming our productive economy and our nation.  Remember the second and third order long term social costs that occur from the loss of jobs!  

Ford had an ad saying  “Safety is Job One” and another saying “Quality is Job Number One”.

Now we should say that “Jobs are Job Number One”

- John Doyle 

 

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I have not posted about this lately but I just got a email that aluminum is going up another 7% yesterday.  They said that we are nowhere near done with increases.

 

One a second note We have changed our policy in regards to Estimates. The are now only good for 7 days and will be reviewed at time of PO to determine if any corrections need to be made.  

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