Holysemolians

I have a certain take on this, don't know if it helps or not. Among male baboons socialization with other male baboons mainly consists of teeth baring and yowling. The louder yowl and more menacing teeth usually wins. Occasionally there is biting and then the "loser" quits when he doesn't want to get bit any more. This establishes rank and the lower ranking males generally don't get the alpha females. (Plus the other monkeys seem to like to kick his ass all the time.) The older males can't yowl as loud any more but find other activities (than competing for the alpha females). The females on the other hand generally engage in nit-picking and hair cleaning and stroking when socializing with other females. We THINK this is done in order to rise in rankings among females, since lower ranking females more often seek out higher ranking females. But rank among females amongst each other is not generally dependent on violence or biting power, but rather by matrilineal heredity or stroking up the ladder. Cross gender socialization seems to purpose toward mating and protection of infants and newborns. The analogy to this websites clique (used in a neutral sense) is that 1) males are more apt to engage in what you called negative behavior. I'm not going to tell so and so his shirt is nice looking. This never occurs to me. But females on the other hand do this alot in my experience. The clique is male dominated in my perception as it stands. 2) Males are less apt to use the so called "negative behavior" with females. Notice you started the thread with a negative bent but no one pointed this out. So the solution is that you gals have to be willing to put in your two cents more often about the function and interdynamics of the sign business. In 22 yrs I'm sure you have opinions and perceptions worth hearing. This is a male dominated clique for now, but it doesn't have to be. There is a cross gender barrier which I believe makes women hesitate to speak out here. But it is not our fault that the sign business doesn't involve sex or babies. We would welcome your input, believe us. As a guilty party who has certainly engaged in negative behavior on this site although I don't consider myself part of the clique, I state that it is not an ideal state of reality (the website).

1) I didn't vote for O. Just said he is a smooth talker. Seemed to have pushed your buttons right from the start. I didn't vote at all. 2) Never said you are corrupt in any shape or form regarding the experiments. There may be temptations toward data scewing but I have no knowledge of what they are or whether you are honest or dishonest. No information on this subject. No indications or intuitions either. 3) The printer did not work from the box had to be sent back only works with ONE VERSION of Corel which isn't even the most recent one has a loose gear which he DID NOT fix he only fixed it enough to make a video cannot work from reading the manual alone and the rep wouldn't even pay the shipping back since he said I killed the printer which I did not do, does NOT work and probably CANNOT work. Enough said and I as tired of rehashing this over and over as anyone else is of reading it. You did not read the whole thread and claim to have enough information to say I am too stupid to work the machine. I've used a Gerber Saber router since 1996 never had issues and a Roland SC-545EX never had issues. Along with my plotter and Arete's return making system. It is a piece of shit from China and has no money back guarantee which even Harbor Freight will give you. 4) Yo brother, cool down what the hell, I was mad before because you killed my thread; I was only trying to say that I'm not mad anymore about that and do not think anymore that you were just kowtowing to Grubby's demands. 5) My issue with this site is that I felt criticised by many and agreed with by very few actually only one directly. On an impersonal level it only means that I did not accomplish my agenda. On a personal level it means that I do not appreciate being called stupid by my peers. You will lose customers that way although I doubt this will stop you. I am not entirely computer literate but I can run the machines I need to and their attendant softwares. The monkey troupe decided long ago that I am not a ranking monkey. Guess that means I'm not invited to have a beer with you all next year at ISA. If I view this troup as a clique it is because I see alot of teeth baring and precious little support. This monkey stands alone, so be it. 6) My wife says I'm not the smartest egg in the basket and if I was smarter I'd be rich and retired. Amen. Made some nice signs though, recently.

Well I half believed your spiel for a few moments. You are a smooth talker, like Barak Obama, our president. Sounded good and without pushing the the readers buttons, something me and XYZ could both learn from. Even got me asking myself, was my agenda not including anyone else and only self serving? More importantly was I wrong about you being biased toward the supplier? Or toward your buddy the blabbermouth? Yes and no, I have always been upfront about my agenda. Revenge against the one who bit me and to help the little guy, the other signmaker who could be in the same position, to warn him. He is a little guy because he doesn't have money to buy the bigger and more automated machines. Someone whom XYZ would not necessarily bother with, since he doesn't buy product like the mid to big manufacturers. He is the little guy who paid you a members fee who does or does not contribute to thread conversations. He is also the little guy who is viewing what he can without paying the membership fee. I am speaking of being in the clique (conversationers) or outside the clique (lurkers and members who do not converse). You see, you have very carefully kept a neutral stance on my thread, perfectly natural for a moderator who has paying customers from both sides, the supplier and the signmaker. Actually commendable since vendor membership and advertising fees are more than the vendees fees. Your position was neutral with the one exception when you criticised me for not going to other companies and peers in the industry to ask for advice before I bought the printer. I refrained from direct criticism back even though it struck me that websites such as this one are replacing after hour beers in someone else's shop or phone chat. That reply implied that YOU KNEW I got screwed (and yes, I was STUPID for not reading the fine print or catching on somehow that this rep and company was illigitimate). Okay, so how does this situation differ from the definition of "unbiased?" Your readers expect for instance an "unbiased" experiment using different manufacturers of LED modules. Neutral in the sense that you are not favoring one supplier over another. But bias TOWARD THE TRUTH regarding the performance of the different products. The TRUTH is that you KNOW I got screwed but never said so just as everyone else in the clique has done with the single exception I believe of Travis. It was darn well obvious despite my lack in organising and writing my position. In order for other sign manufacturers to have faith in you, I humbly suggest that simply reinforcing the TRUTH would have been better. Neutrality does not mean unbiased. Okay, so you can criticise me back. The truth is everyone who read that thread knew I got screwed royally. If they have any sense at'all. As far as killing the thread goes, I would have liked for lurkers to be able to see it directly. I understand that member and frequent readers have gotten tired of it. It was your decision and I can't do anything about it anyway.

Well, you were my other antithesis. And patronizing to the end. Any half-wit signmaker knows that a product which will not work directly with Flexisign or Signlab, the two most widely used SIGN softwares in the U.S. is not legitimate. THAT SINGLE FACT ALONE PROVES MY POSITION. But no, you had to point out my failings over and over and then state the problem to be mutual misunderstanding. But I was not fighting with you directly or really caring one way or the other about your opinion. Because of course, you are a supplier and it is "disruptive" to this segment of the online community for people to rant about suppliers in general as a precedent. YOUR BIAS is that you are not in the shoes of the poor smuck who bought the product and then had to live with it. YOU my friend are on the other end of the deal. I have posted on other discussions and will again if they interest me. I don't need allies or "ears." If my post dragged out too long, then I apologise. If people really don't like to see this topic anymore in the headlines, then okay.

The message board is for general rants, or just shooting the shit. By definition. But is it unbiased? I think not. Because one member in particular has taken an extreme view on one subject and harassed his buddy the moderator to shut down the thread I originated, he succeeded. This proves the site is a clique and I take offense at this. I have flamed or said bad things about another company who is a supplier and a particular representative. But this is a common occurence on this site and especially by the moderator himself; as we are all in the same business it behooves us to keep in touch about suppliers or other companies who can potentially do us harm. If my thread seems redundant then skip it, but to stop it altogether is not fair in a free and democratic society. Why don't you take a vote and then kill it? Or not. No, Chubby is your BUD and he is killing you with his demands. I know because I've received some pretty nasty emails which make me wonder if this guy is even totally sane. Maybe he would even travel all the way to Austin and do a postal who knows. Well are you unbiased enought to even post this? High Voltage or Westcoast Sign Guy or whoever you are? I doubt it.

I don't think the readers really believe you Chubby. Otherwise I would have gotten many an offer on the printer long ago. From any of the readers who read the thread but do not express their opinion of Easy Channel Letters or Neil Fancher the rep. 1/3 price for a printer that has never been used? It really has to be a piece of s%$t in order not to sell. I stand by my characterization of the company and the representative. Like I said before, the readers can decide. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE PRINTER CAN WORK TO SOME DEGREE AT LEAST. But it does not work for me and has been a major pain in the cabeza since day one. It took 3 wks before they would even send me the ONLY software which will work for the printer which is Corel version 10. It is unclear whether they do this as standard procedure, or because I was a pain in the butt. But why does anyone have to go through the headache to even find out the above? Okay, okay, old story. I thought you were blocking this thread. What made you change your mind? This is not YOUR website hermano.

Why don't you buy the printer and prove me wrong? I remember sometime back you were saying to the Let-R-Sign guy you thought his printer was cool. Buy this one for a fraction of the cost, could you use it for your shop?

That would make me a salesman and not a signmaker. I suck at sales. But the big guys in Austin have automated benders and there must be some way to get those letters made faster, smoother, cheaper. The printer is still for sale. I am bumping the old thread.

1000.00 for the whole package as is. 1/3 price. Hell, Easy Channel Letters can buy it and sell it again to some poor sucker at this price. Going once....

That is, the BROTHER of the guy in Chicago. Even the last name might strike a bell over there.