manuellynch

I saw that Brad Hillis joined from Pride Signs - wow - CEO of one of the larger Canadian sign companies. Good addition to this board. Very smart savvy sign guy. Welcome aboard Brad.

Erik - this would be a good reference to have on Sign Syndicate...stack ranking of largest sign companies in USA, Canada, India, UK....just a thought.

Pattison is by far the largest - does anyone have a stack ranking of the other major sign companies in Canada. Transworld, SteelArt, Pride Signs???

Permlight is now called PERMLIGHT - not sure what that means...but check out their new website - they are no longer offering all the LED luminaires they use to offer to the lighting world and it appears that they are now offering a greatly reduced product offering to the sign community. Someone made be laugh and wanted to know if BRILLA was there was of saying they will be rough on customers...funny. Heard also from several vendors and competitors that they seem to be focusing on markets outside the USA only (India, France, etc). We kick their butt in India so I wonder if anyone has any news on them. Seems odd that they do about $12-$14 million in sales and that they have two CEOs. Maybe my buddy at Lumificient/Nexxus can shed some light on this. Marko - have you heard anything?

I have learned that asking that question gets me nothing...hahaha. Patience brings.

Dont get me started...I wonder sometimes if this is all an elaborate way to start a new industry.

This is pretty amusing article on people hoarding incandescent light bulbs - I have my own stash: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7480958.stm

Wanted to get a conversation going on new ways that people are finding shipping bargains in shipping or receiving products. Really would like the international group of members to jump in on this. If shipping to Europe the US Post Office is almost invariable the least expensive and reliable. However if shipping to India you may not want to use the US Post Office and may want to use DHL for tracking purposes. Also - interested in what anyone is learning about customs clearing cost these days. Seems FEDEX is the best equipped. Conversation on this subject would be great.

I agree with you on this. Even of our parts are 80% less power than neon it doesnt mean that neon may be the better choice for a purple face sign. And get different age range of viewers - someone 20-30, someone 30-50, and someone over 50. Eyes change with time - light meters dont...sorry...but it is people that make decisions on what to use.

You might do a "Real Person" test as well. I think most in the sign industry will confirm that whether we like it or not it is the "visual" test that usually determines what is used.

how do we schedule to use chat rooms? can we invite specific guest via your system?

No. I have no figure in mind at all. I envisioned giving the sign company credit. My interest is in the nature of using this sign board as an extension of our business to reduce marketing costs by giving back to loyal customers - a win win. I am a believer that these boards can open up complete new ways of doing business and can cut costs in these interesting economic times. Here is an article that echoes that what Erik is doing on this board is pretty friggin smart: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/125/ni...e-ambition.html So...propose a concept and I will put it together. I believe that vendors and customers should work much closer together. Hell, I am constanly telling our vendors where the products are being used and why - it motivates them to be part of the solution and it makes them want to make us successful. I also think Erik should add a simple way that we all can invite other people to join this board.

Finished sign pics.

Any feedback on this?

totally agree with Dave...need a venting venue.

Wanted to get feedback on how much people think would be reasonable and fair for a vendor to offer a customer to supply installation photos that used their products. It would be under the agreement that the photos could be used for the vendor promotional uses. Are there vendors that offer this out there? What would be a fair amount for use of a photo that really isnt the sign company's property???

I am sorry I do this better than you Zdenko. Now that is really funny. No one can purchase their dies...are you that special? Oh I will - I would love to purchase Nichia die. I will have him jump on here and correct that for the group. I will find the Nichia lifetime curve at these elevated temperature and humidity and post it for you and for the members of this board. And for the record - my advertising isnt Free - I like YYZ pay for our ads on this site. Why dont you?

I live in Las Vegas Zdenko - we know a thing or two about heat. And in Australia, Dubai, and India where we also sell quite a bit of product we see similar extreme conditions. 10C/W seems high...you should ask for better. And you may also want to check micro via technology used in power amplifiers for thermal conduction. And I did tell you I did work for one of the largest military/satellie semiconductor manufacturers...didnt I? Temperatures can get pretty extreme in these applications. Do you want more on the "Thermal Truth"

has anyone bid on doing any of the WalMart rebrand yet? Orange and Dusty Blue in LEDs. Fun. THe blue is the same as HONDA blue...and thanks Nichia for coming through for us on this.

Newer LEDs have a junction temperature max of 150C. Also these LEDs can operate near junction temperature and achieve lifetime performance with 80% humidity. But good luck with the LEDs you are using sir. It is my understanding that you DO NOT use Nichia LEDs. As always - good luck in your business.

As digital media useage increases along with the desire for thinner light boxes a lot of LED systems are coming into the market for backlight. This is a question that probably deserves another thread - but, does neon, fluorescent, or LED at the exact same color temperature render images differently? Would like some feedback on rendering digital images with various different light sources.

Great post Marko. Only one addition - Warm White 2700K is usually used for halo lit letters in historic or older parts of town where the backdrop is a natural element like stone or brick. Warm white renders red and earth tones better. Only other thing to note is that visual acuity of people over 50 changes and as you get older you tend to perceive cooler white (6500K) as much brighter than warmer white even if they are the exact same lumen output. Also - younger generations that have been raised on energy efficient lighting in schools, home etc typically call cool white light sources "clean" and perceive warm white lighting to be "dirtier"...this was from a survey done by a national home builder who is trying to come up with a new home product that caters to the younger audience.

I agree with Marko - three slots would be great. Also - Marko let me know when you are going in July or August and I may go at the same time and meet up with you guys.

Let me clear that up - you only need one stroke of Axiom AXLE3WG65-3 for an 8" stroke. But then again Gary at your company you dont get to use the products that make the most amount of sense as you have to see what Monigle specifies. And do they build signs in their shop???? I have a real problem with LED module manufacturers dictating to sign companies how to build a sign or the layout to provide. That is incredibly egotistical of an LED module manufacturer to think they "know how to build a sign" better than someone who has been doing it for years. Gary - you guys make signs, we make lights. I dont presume that you should know anything about Thermal Conduction or W/mK of a material, or what the reflow temperature is of a particular LED is...and I am not going to assume you want to learn about binning structures or the transmisivity of certain materials and how they may block certain wavelenghts of light. No different than you are not going to tell me why riveting a channel return rather than stapling may be better - or why a stainless steel halo lit letter seems to run hotter than a comparable aluminum letter. Simply put Gary - our new LED system is FRIGGIN BRIGHT and runs cooler than any other product on the market - and ironically uses an LED technology that is capable of handling more heat than anyone could believe - the LED on our product can handle a junction temperature of 125C (the human body runs at 37C and we interpret 57-60C as "burning"). So essentially our LED could physically burn you but still operate just fine. 6500K +/- what %? Do you buy neon that way? And Gary it is your management choice not to make more money using a product that is more than 1/2 the price. Some companies have gotten a lot smarter and done their extensive engineering analysis and determined that our products quality/reliability and performance are the same or better than the others but just cost a lot less. They either pass that onto customers or split the difference with customers and make more money.

I agree with Marko - should we set designer white 71 neon as the benchmark - it is what the world refers to as "the brightest" I have one odd thing to throw at you - our AXLE3WG65-3 module will probably only need one stroke on an 8" letter. On your testing proposal - we have the same setup for a letter running for well over a year using both Axiom AXLE4 and AXLE1WG series and have shown less than 2% degradation of light output...only differences is that they are running 24 hours a day and the temperature extremes go from 32F to 120F. You live in San Diego - how can the samples see "real temperature"? Send some to Marko to see how they do in cold (-30F). And Marko - "using the more popular brands like Sloan, Permlight, GE" - I can say that several people on this board that include the top 10 sign companies in the USA that were the largest customers for Sloan or Permlight have switched completely over to Axiom. GE...well we are trying to get them in a few places but hell I dont have GE Finance to help me loan a large sign company funds to build a new factory in the USA.