Erik Sine
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Posts posted by Erik Sine
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1 hour ago, Rocco said:
Even the first issue had a section for electrical signs. i just find the ads facinating with all the different type faces. OK, so I'm a font nerd!
I haven't had a chance to check out yet, but I'm sure as soon as I do I'mm spending some amount of time in fascination
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8 hours ago, Rocco said:
I get emails from the mag and they have started to put early issues into an archive with the Cincinnatti public library. it's facinating to look at the old copies, especially the ads for the various products. EG sign lights with a hooded reflector don't seem to have changed much in design since the 1920's. I've put a link to the archive below. i hope they keep doing this because i'd love to see issues from the 1960's/70's when i first started helping my Dad.
Oh that's cool.
Probably better articles too
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The United LED 2 vs Principal Qwik Mod2 vs BrightON - II Shoot Out
I've been getting asked questions from clients about a new option on the block and how it compares to the BrightON - II LED Module.
At the time I ran this benchmark there has been very little information about the United LED Module, which is Wensco Sign Supplies's "Fuck You" product aimed at Principal LED's Qwik Mod2 specifically for hurt feelings....and it's backed by Montroy & Spandex. This is Wenso's way of getting back at Principal for them losing the Principal / Sloan LED Line...Which IMO...losing those products... was NOT a big loss.
I admire Wensco for coming out and hitting back at Principal Publicly when the Principal line was pulled back from them. But, it was the way Principal did them dirty that I myself understand their anger.
It was the way the relationship ended, and not just for Wensco but others like Montroy. It is reminiscent of how Matt BooB of Vidon/Jewelite silently ended our relationship Link This happens a lot in our industry behind the normal closed doors sign shops will never hear about. We ourselves have gotten doors closed on us because I wouldn't play ball.
We've had large sign suppliers contact vendors we carry to try and shut down what we stock from them down under a threat...THEY won't stock them if they continue to stock us....in fact, now that I think about it, the two brothers at Principal ended our supply of Transco To Go once they bought them. It's not something to cry about, everything happens or a reason. All the bad things that happen in life have a way of installing a drive in you...
....There's a way to end a relationship and it BEGINS with a phone call and having a conversation, no one likes to learn their girlfriend dumped them by text or email, or by social media.
On a normal day I wouldn't even touch this comparison because I think Principal LED is turning into a monopoly just like anyone else, shops are overpaying more for mediocrity and their buying because they don't do their own research...clearly. For now Principal can dictate a large portion of the market....for now...
I'm being asked about it because Wensco is choosing to offer this Brighter, Whiter, Cheaper module ("Brighter than others") for cheaper than the Qwik Mod2... I have to jump in and tell my Customers what the difference is between the two LED Modules and how they differ. There is some truth to it, and some exaggerations.
Back to to the Modules...
I didn't know what to expect on this United LED Module and some specs seemed a little exaggerated to me. It's a G2G Lighting LED Module made specially for Wensco.
In my humble opinion this is a race to the bottom, and it reminds me of the JT LED Era by N.Glantz
If you're going to build something, don't start with the Qwik Mod....for just "Cheaper". The bar for the Qwik Mod is nothing to shoot for, and this does not help the industry, it retards it. They're chasing after shops that want "Cheaper", NOT Quality.
I myself CAN make cheaper, but I don't want "Cheaper", I want to service the shops that want.... "Immaculate"....Competitive Light...NOT Usable Light
Anyhow, I was sent some modules of both United LED's 2LED 12volt .8 watt and higher power 2LED 1.2watt module which I think is geared for cabinet lighting.
I did a quick benchmark comparison per the usual, and I did it this time with my portable sales case.
PIC 1 - Basic LED Module Specs
Left to right.
BrightON - II
12V & 24V .8watt
6500K
Constant Current
3M VHB Tape
18 AWG Wiring
Principal LED's Qwik Mod 2
12V .8watt
7100K
Constant Voltage
3M Foam Tape
20 AWG Wiring
United LED (G2G) 2
12V .8watt
7500K
Constant Voltage
3M VHB Tape
20 AWG Wiring
PIC 2 - Method of Attachment
Method of attachment to surface, 3M VHB Tape or a budget Foam Tape. I personally don't like foam tape as most of you know as a sign shop, because when you place it down once, you're not picking that module back up if you have to move it again for any kind of adjustments without ripping that foam tape and making mess on the surface to reposition.
With VHB tape you can simply twist and move again over and over again.
PIC 2 - The Comparison Makeup
The comparison channels are simple, 12" x 4" x 3" Depth, and typical 7328 white faces.
The United LED .8 watt module does it's job of beating the Principal Qwik Mod 2, in Correlated Color Temperature and in efficiency, but it's not a huge jump. The real test would be the long haul and that's what the Lumen Maintenance would be...The Light Degradation and possible color shifting over time.... but that's going to take time....but we're doing that too!
The BrightON II with better Correlated Color Temperature for a better whiter, and brighter (Chip Efficiency) white exceeds both greatly.
Pay special attention to the Foot Candles Per Watt, this is the amount of light you get per power on a sign face which is more important and truthful than what you will see printed on a LED Module Spec Sheet as "Lumen per watt...or lm/w", because this does not lie and this has to do with chip efficiency and quality.
The BrightON II almost 25% brighter than the Qwik Mod 2, and about 15% brighter than the United LED Module 2 for the same power....But this light output for both United and Principal is favorably handicapped in their advantage and I'll explain later on...
PIC 3 - The 1.2W Large Channel Letter & Cabinet Lighting Module Comparison
Here we have the 12V United LED 2 big 1.2W module up against our 12V 1.2W module, the BrightON - III. These are made for larger channel letters and sign cabinet lighting.
There is a big efficiency difference (Light per Power) between these two... the United LED Module at 107 Foot Candles per watt of power from their 130 for their .8watt module
The BrightON III has nearly 30% more light per power as a 1.2watt module than the United LED 2 Module used for large channel letters and sign cabinet lighting
CONCLUSION
Besides the percentage brighter of the High-End BrightON than the other modules there are other aspects, and some more important than others.
I'm going to address the smaller issues first as to why it affects the lower cost of their modules.
The Foam Tape
It's convenient and cuts down the cost on the LED Manufacturer of course, by tape cost as well as packaging costs.
For the sign shop nothing is more aggravating than placing a LED down and when having to reposition it, it means the tape breaks, makes a mess on the sign surface as well as the module.
22 AWG Wire
Again....It's convenient and cuts down the cost on the LED Manufacturer to help the cost of Budget LEDs along. But smaller gauge wire means voltage loss for these Constant Voltage LEDs, and voltage loss brings uneven lighting for CV LED Systems, more so than CV LEDs that use 18 AWG Wire, which CV LEDs are already not built for life already.
Constant Current
I feel like I beat this topic to death.
But if you're going to build quality, build CC Systems NOT CV.
Life of the LEDs are longer because each module is protected, because they have a current regulator on each module that does the following. Assures consistent lighting of each module from the first to the last module on a string.
The first CC LED on a string does not take a bigger hit than the last module on a string. Any slight fraction of a volt coming from a LED PSU above 12.0v can kill a CV System, and faster depending on the overage.
On any under voltage such as 11.5 to 11 volts the CV system will dim, and this usually occurs on fully optimum loaded LED Power Supplies, mixed in with voltage loss occurring from string length and secondary line length (mix in 20 AWG wire too).
That same voltage on a CC system LEDs, the LEDs won't dim, they will be just as bright as if hooked up to a true 12volts. This is why when you ever light up a few CV modules on a sample string they will be brighter than when it comes time to hook up these modules on a fully loaded PSU at 85%.
So in reality, if I were to optimum load these power supplies to these Channels….”One Bag…One Power Supply” as they’re pitched…. the CV LEDs (Principal & United LED) would have lesser light output than what I'm showing here favorably by hooking up only 2 led modules per power supply, or in this case, 6 LED modules to one single unit. So, in a sense right now…..I’m favorably handicapping these Principal / United G2G modules.
Lastly...
The "Upgrade" has always been here...the "Upgrade" is the BrightON LED
I admire Wensco for going out and sticking it to Principal and ruffling their feathers, I completely understand the anger Wensco has and I know that anger is what will drive them. Competition is good, and in the electric sign industry whether you know it or not, there is a fight against the monopoly going on
I'm only doing this comparison because I'm getting dragged into it, large samples are being left and special pricing to "try me" is being left and I was being asked by customers as well as Sign Suppliers what the differences are. The BrightON LED line is NOT a budget line, there's plenty of that out there...it's just not how I would build a sign.
The BrightON LED Line is a premium product that is priced around the same as the Qwik Mod System on average, provides better lighting and efficiency, lasts longer due to those aspects explained, and priced lower to similar built systems that still won't beat it in lighting efficiency (Light per Power).
By Years end our BrightON LED Line will be taking another huge Leap forward in Lighting Efficiency. From our prototypes that we have been playing around with the this last year we will be Brighter, Whiter, and doing it for a much lesser Cost of Operation (Light per Power). So, what is already Great now, will be even GREATER!
BrightON LED is Built from within the Sign Industry...FOR the Sign Industry, offering Competitive Light...NOT Usable Light!
Related Topic:
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Ground Breaking NewsSome pics of the New BrightON Module Line Modules, the New BrightON - II and the revised BrightON - Lightning. For what was already efficient Top Tier 165 Lumens per watt....we're now at 170lm/w to 175lm/w• Constant Current, NOT Constant Voltage• 18 AWG Wire, NOT 22 AWG• VHB Tape, NOT Foam Tape• 10 Yr Product | 5 Yr LaborWe LOVE Competition!New 24V & 12V .8w BrightON - II
12V .72w BrightON - Lightning
Dastardly Duo
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Toggle bolts
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On 4/27/2024 at 12:36 PM, Rocco said:
Nice,
Where did the corrugated plastic come from? I have a potential job where the customer wants to recreate his old sign that was damaged.
It's actually 22 gauge corrugated galvinized metal painted a Matthews Paint Green
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Here's a pretty cool little project using the BrightON Lighting 3000K Mini Modules. The 3000K goes nicely with the Green
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Oh yeah, much smaller than Vegas, and larger than the Atlantic Show. I usually go annually, but last Vegas show was smaller than usual and saw all in one day.
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I was going tot try and go last minute but was unable. Friends said it was small, nothing new. I think these shows get smaller and smaller every year now with social media.
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The latest in LED Manufacturer / Sign Distributor LED Module Turf Wars.
How these winners are picked by the International Sign Association in endless Social Media Congratulatory Posts, the endless LED Manufacturer & their Manufacturer Outside Sales Reposts, and the reposts and likes coming from all the Association & MFG undercarriage
Our Trade Magazines picking winners by sharing their publishing keyboard, allowing them to write biased, self serving, self promotion "factual articles" by whoever pays them the most in advertising.
The way our Sign Industry knowingly...or unknowingly eats it up as fact
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I just caught wind of the little side segment as it reached through my spam folder and into my inbox.
I know Signs of The Times is only 15 pages now, with very little content..... but wow how they have really sunk further down just about the last revolution of the circling toilet water out, on it's way to the sewer.
They've never been accused of truthful content on the past, but now announcing they're writing real fiction with their Community Activist writer Rolf L'Mao who is screaming "Fire" where there is none. This man writes fiction to spark controversy and to hit political emotion....what hole did they dig this guy from?
So, just read the Red Deal - "The Case of the Channel Changer"
....how sad....
I'm not even the person Rolf L'mao would consider "White"....and I see nothing but Made up "Race Baiting" with using such words as "minority owner" and Made up Sexism...just to spark emotion...to infuse some sort of "White Guilt"
We have enough of a divided country as it is, the last place we need to read about it with made up content is from these Brochure Rags....stick to Made up reasons why a Product is Good based on what that advertiser paid that month....give them back your keyboard so they can write up some Sales points
As someone who this Community Activist writer would consider, and label ME a "Minority"....lose the labels Rolf L'mao. No one really cares what we look like or what gender we are, most of us just look at one another as People, and fellow American's. I've never needed a label like "Minority Owner" to get through in life, nor need a handicap because for some reason I can't make it on my own without the assistance from government, forcing their hand to put me at the front of a line that I can't do myself based on merit....NOT by the color of my skin.
Let me give you little bit of insight Rolf L'mao... in the private sector especially.....we hire, and deal with individuals who are the best at what they do based on merit, character, and based by production or ideas from their own efforts....
We don't hire people or heir their services based on because they are Brown, Black, White, or Yellow, or Man or Women....some do, and that's sad...but that's so small and so few, it's not even worth writing a fake story about. I've been in this Industry since 1993, and I've seen all walks of life as owners, important decision makers. Good ones and bad, we're all just people, and we're all so different...
That's one thing I'm proud to have never done, declare myself as a "Minority Owner". Use on a form, or to try to obtain a bid or contract. You either Hire me because I'm good (Which I am), or go hire someone else. There was one time where a grocery chain told me after years of work I had performed for them, that I had to fill out a "Minority Owned" application. I refused, they told me they had to move on, and they did. A few years later they called me back after enough failed projects...
No Wonder Why SOT is only 15 pages thick these days
He's not Rolf L'mao...he's Rolf LMFAO
QuoteWhy don’t you stick to vinyl and banners, honey, and let the big boys take care of channel letter sets?” Stanislaus Kowalski said to Maddy Barlo, more as a statement than a question. Kowalski, owner of SK Channel Mfg, was Chicagoland’s largest channel letter wholesaler and Barlo’s shop, Signapalooza Downtown, had recently submitted specs for a new Vietnamese restaurant sign in a nearby strip mall.
“Excuse me, what?” Barlo asked, definitely a question and a statement, to which Kowalski, apparently used to this reaction, pivoted to what he thought was being complimentary, talking up Barlo’s shop strengths, but came off somewhere between patronizing and condescending. A few more terse sentences were exchanged before he parted, but you get the picture.
“Forget him,” Barlo later said of Kowalski to Ryan, her husband and minority co-owner of Signapalooza Downtown. Except she didn’t say, ‘Forget.’ “I don’t care how much more everyone else might charge,” she continued. “We are not working with him. There are plenty of other wholesalers out there. Let’s look in Signs of the Times.”
Indeed, she found one offering great service and competitive pricing. Signapalooza Downtown fulfilled the sale of the Vietnamese restaurant sign with help from a local installer. This led to another job for a new store opening in the same strip mall. And then another and another … again, you get the picture.
Two years passed. Signapalooza Downtown steadily built up its channel letter business, becoming one of the three fastest growing customers of wholesale channel letters in the Chicago area. The increased volume got the attention of Kowalski, who contacted Barlo by email, requesting an appointment to bid on her work.
“Why are you taking the meeting?” Ryan asked. “This guy was such a jerk to you.”
“I’m interested in how he’s going to act this time, what he’ll say now that he’s coming to us,” she said. “I don’t know. I may brush him off right to his face.”
The next week Kowalski arrived early for the meeting and waited patiently for Barlo to see him. She greeted him in the shop’s lobby and led him back to her office.
“You co-own your business with your husband but you’re the majority owner?” Kowalski said, again more as a statement than a question. “That’s impressive,” he quickly followed up before Barlo could say, “Yes.”
“Thank you,” Barlo replied. “The arrangement has worked out well.”
“Well enough for Signapalooza Downtown to more than triple its channel letter sales year over year,” Kowalski said. “Which is why I wanted to meet with you today.”
“Um-hm,” Barlo said, concentrating on her best poker face.
“But first, I owe you an apology,” Kowalski said. “The last time we spoke, I didn’t take you or your shop seriously and not only did that cost me some business, but it also was just the wrong thing to do, a bad way to behave.”
“Well...” Barlo started, but Kowalski quickly continued his deep-breath admission.
“You see, my daughter joined my company eight months ago and she tells me a lot of sign guys don’t take her seriously, ask to see me instead, just treat her like she doesn’t count or even exist.” He paused a moment. “And that’s what I did to you, and to other women in sign companies, and for that, I’m deeply sorry.”
Barlo thought, “Didn’t see this coming,” then said to Kowalski, “Thank you.”
“So I’m hoping you might give me another chance,” he said. “I think we can be very competitive in price and delivery with whoever you’ve been working with.”
Get the picture?
My thanks to Maggie Harlow, owner of Signarama Downtown (Louisville, KY), whose own experience inspired this story, though this ends differently from Maggie’s. — Rolf L’mao
****EDITOR'S NOTE:
Real Deal is a fictional scenario designed to read like real-life business events. The businesses and people mentioned in this story should not be confused with actual businesses and people.*** -
As the Signs of The Times Magazine circles the toilet fighting to stay a float these days, something of actual relevance pops up on their site, yet..it didn't even come from them....
With the Community Organizer over there away from the Keyboard and the take over by the current Hipsters they still can't get it right.
No one in that SOT staff currently has ever fabricated, installed, or processed Neon in their lives. The closest any of them has ever been to a piece of glass is probably at the ISA show in Vegas with them possibly taking a tour at the Neon Graveyard.
They probably stared at at the magnificence in all its glory in awe...maybe even jaw dropping while sipping on a fruity cocktail. Not even a whisper that the very publication they work for....helped to enable its fall. Or know, that the publication did what was easy, and take advertising money from the LED sector and allow them to buy influence in not only our supposed Trade Magazines which is nothing more than a brochure rag, but bought influence in our Trade Associations as well....and kill the very Soul of Neon, the greatest Heritage in our Trade. Yet, our Trade Journalism did nothing about it. Nothing to protect our Electric Sign Trades Greatest Heritage, & Tradition that helped put us on the map in Perpetuity....Neon.
Destruction of our very roots from within...or are the Trade Magazines & Sign Associations truly counted as one of us, or part of the "Whithin". I say, and always have said that "They" are not "Us". This is best left for another day, but very briefly for those that do not know. Most Sign Trade Magazines are not souly based on one trade, most have magazines that coexist in different sectors like Hospitality or Construction. The same is for the Core Executive that actually pick up a check at The International Sign Association, their employees who head it up never ever came from our Industry, they came from others, Power Lift Gates & Plastics Industry one day and Musical Chair the enxt right into our industry...they're outsiders coming and bringing that recycled business model they used in some other sector/trade into ours.
Back to the Article...
This Ball less Rag still, to this day has to label this article/letter as "Opinion"
That's mainly because the Hipsters that run the rag think it's just entertaining but know there's a hint of truth somewhere....they just can't figure out where.
Forget the fact that SOT like others have become irrelevant at the current state. They're all basically 15 pages long these days, with little to no information that you can't get by logging into LinkedIN, Facebook, or watching a TikTok / YouTube Video where the "pay/rent for SOT Keyboard" days are over.
Even the LED Manufacturers that once bought space at SOT is over, Social Media and the Internet killed these Rags. All that one sided Light Source influence of LEDs Good....Neon Bad, is gone. They're lucky to have maybe one ad a month from LEDs.
Yet, here we are today after much devastation with our Tardes Greatest Heritage hanging on by a nut hair..and this comes out.
Where was even so much as an opinion 12 years ago? Forget even having so much as one of their so called Journalists do a little digging in putting up the Pro's and Con's of both Neon & LED, or the Benefits of each. Nothing.
Countless articles I myself have written here with real Return On Investment figures here for all to kick around ...which we did a good job of.
But, now the Hipsters that run the SOT in their tight pegged Jeans, Drinking their Starbucks, petting their purse dog that sits on their lap at the local restaurant that barks at everyone thought about putting this Man's letter up for all to read his "opinion"
The Sign Trade Associations & Trade rags still suck after all these years (I haven't picked one up in years, not even for shits and giggles or while sitting on the pot).
In Rags & Associations....Some know, some have known....my experience not only here, being in the field of our trade, and being in a Sign Association for a brief stint has still remained true.....they all lack Courage.
There is NO courage to do what is right, only to do what comes easy in both our trade rags and sign associations like ISA...or The International Sign Association.
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The BrightON - II Cobalt Blue
A quick little intro video of our newest BrightON - II Cobalt Blue
A 12V High Efficiency Blue LED Module Driving at .7w, Constant Current NOT Constant Voltage, Under Driven, 3M VHB Tape NOT Foam Tape...and can be mechanically fastened with a #8 screw if need be.
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This just gets more interesting, and it makes sense out of everything. The question was, after all the aquisitions of Grimco Buying out Tubelite & Denco and other small suppliers....why would they let Principal / Sloan Buy out Hanley LED? The word is, Principal / Sloan got bought out by Hanley LED a while back...it just wasn't public yet.
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GO BIG or GO HOME!!!
Posting some pics of a 22" Deep Pole Sign Cabinet that a customer sent.
If you're going to do a large, deep....Double Sided Cabinet or Monument Sign....do it right!
No cheesy propietary Stiks, no fake Keystroke Constant Voltage Faux HO LED Lamps....resulting in poor luminance and "Usable Light"...
Do it Cost Effective, and do it "Simply".......just chop some angles, tap 'em in and apply some Big Boy SunFires. The costs of using 1"x1" angle, 1" Square Tubing comes out to about $1.75 a foot.
12' Rows spaced just Like real HO Fluorescent Lamps, and space 12" module to module and you'll understand why these are called "SunFire". Sit back and observe the Disgusting amount of light these Magnificent BrightON SunFire LEDs produce! You'll end up with Competitive Light...NOT Usable Light. Using the BrightON SunFire LED Modules for Double Sided Cabinets you're looking at $6.50 per foot for DS, compared to Proprietary Systems costing $13 to $20 per foot
Think of the cost saving annually....why pay extra for less light and for method of attachment costs??
Constant Current NOT Constant Voltage for Even/Consistent Lighting....High Efficiency (Light per Power)....Real White...24 Volt & Under Driven for Long Life!!!!
How to make this system even better? Team up the BrightON SunFires with some France Lighting Solutions TruPower LED Power Supplies
Seeing is BELIEVING!!
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Some bad news of the Neon World.
Ventex / Transco who is currently owned by Principal LED or Principal Industries as they are now known by has stopped production of their TC2000 Porcelain Replacement Housing. As an LED Company busy acquiring other LED Companies....I don't think Neon is high on their Priority List, look for Ventex to just outright dissolve....at least all the housings....it wouldn't suprise me.
So, for those accounts that have been working on In & Out Burgers, they will have to go another route. Perhaps just stick with the current clear glass housing but use a White Silicone Cap.
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Now it's Official.
Your Choices and Options just shrunk...and so did the Competition. This means the Prices will up, and the Quality will go down.
What do you think???
......Its "Growing" Alright
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Just as a reminder, sometimes it's better to call you order in because the shipping rates can be better due to how we manually consolidate your order.
Online Shipping software has a tendency to calculate bulk orders differently when purchasing multiple different components
(858) 880-1400 or orders@thesignsyndicate.com
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Thought I would give everyone a Christmas Present.
For the next 30 Days, the National Sign & Service Company Review Forum & the Manufacturer, Wholesaler/ Distributor Review Forum will be open for all to read and comment.
Don't forget to take the polls for the companies you have had actual relationships with, and even comment...others would like to know what kind of relations these companies have had, good or bad.
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Just got Verification from a Grimco Rep. They aren't allowed to say anything but, the Deal is "Pending"
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Early on, my feeling was this little module was going to be the most popular module we will have. You can do so much with it, Channel Letters, Reverse Channel Letter Halo Lighting is Ridiculous. This module has been best for shallow faces from 1.5" to 5"+. If you liked the quality of the Sloan Prism, this is the better module for 1/3 the price.
To date, it's been the hardest to keep on the shelf and in stock.
Beginning of next year we are widening the options of lighting with Ruby Red, Cobalt Blue, Sunflower Yellow, Green and for whites 4000K, 5000K, 7100K to go alongside out 6500K & 3000K.
Demand has been phenomenal. Running short has been a good problem to have.
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So this got even worse If what I'm hearing is true. The word from a few Hanley Reps just said that Principal / Sloan just bought them out.
Fewer Choices....Lower Quality.
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Discussing the BrighON LED Module Lineup for the Electric Sign Industry
A brief description about the High-End, High Efficiency BrightON LED Module Line for the Electric Industry by @Kgirl.
These LED Modules are made for everything from Channel Letters, Sign Cabinets, Architectural Elements to General Lighting.
• The 24V & 12V .8 watt BrightON II
• The 12V 1.2 watt BrightON III
• The 24V & 12V 1.6 watt BrightON IV
• The 12V .72 watt BrightON Lightning
• The 24V 2.4 watt BrightON SunFire
• The 24V 3W RGB+W BrightON Sirius
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Ha, I just recently saw something similar and wish I snapped a pic. It was a sign guy with advert wrap on his Mini Cooper with a top rack with two ladders that were longer than the length of his car. Pretty Funny
ISA Las Vegas 2025
in General Message Board
Posted
Come see our BrightON LEDs displayed at the Abitech Sign Supply Booth #4618 this year at ISA Las Vegas....come see what we have coming next!