YYZ

For big letters way high up, that's actually a pretty good idea. Not sure how it works code-wise since the letters are external to the building's HVAC system which allows for full circulation, while channel letters are an enclosed space. Even tiny little 2" PVC hoses feeding cool air in/out of each letter would drastically improve life expectancy of any lighting system. But you know how that would go over... some in the neon group would start whining about ow LEDs are so bad you need to run air conditioning into all your signs, just like some now complain you need special acrylic faces to make LEDs look brighter (never mind that those special faces were in the works well before LED and benefit neon too).

...and what would you do with that list?

I can confirm that the Aria letters are in fact fairly bright. If it's Sloan inside, then they likely over-saturated the cabinet with more modules than the Sloan spec calls for, but the sign looks nice.

Yeah - EL is a very limited life product. OK for 6 months on the side of a bus, but I wouldn't want it in any long term installations. We've actually been replacing EL in several architectural projects where it simply wasn't bright enough to begin with, never mind after the first year was done. Give them credit for making it light up completely off the grid, but LEDs make a whole lot more sense.

Have any of you guys read up on the p-p-powerbook scam? A few savvy online folks scammed the scammers and posted the the thing as it was going on. Pure comedy if ou have the time to read: http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/

It's been interesting reading these replies and seeing some photos. I'm sure Manuel has some to post as well. I'm glad we were able to all meet and spend some time together. It's a lot like Sean said - even for someone who may otherwise be quiet or shy - it's like you were getting together with people you just haven't seen for a while, not people you're just meeting for the first time. It's easy to fall into a familiar group setting and it made the trip much more enjoyable. Erik - it was great to finally meet you and K-Girl - congrats on the twins. I should be down some time over the next month when I hit LA to get our other projects started. Gary (and Rod) - no more hide-and-seek at shows since we both know what the other looks like now... though my feelings were terribly hurt that you paid more attention to Daisy than to me ;) Chubby, Garrett, Lane (and female companions) were all friendly and had quite the glow going. Nice to sit and have drinks with friends away from the hustle and bustle of home, isn't it? Sean - Next time you're in Toronto, I'll show you around here as well. We'll do A LOT less walking and I won't hire the snake babe (snakebabe.com for those who are interested) but some drinks will definitely be in order to make up for that barrel you bent over at the Venetian bar. UL Jim - thank you for 20 minutes of marital advice and then learning Daisy is actually married to someone else - that was a priceless conversation. I won't need the drinking advice, but will be sure to tap your expertise in other matters as time goes on. To the other who don't post here but lurk - it was a pleasure to put some faces to the names, talk a little shop and make some new acquaintances. My ear is always open if you want to get in touch for any reason at all. And finally to Manuel and Stephanie - gracious (an generous) hosts who saved my ass on a jobsite problem there in Vegas. I heard you put on a good show and you did not disappoint. Dinner at Gallagher's was wonderful and your spread at the Mandalay - along with the risque entertainment - was great to be a part of. Thank you from myself and Daisy, who feels like she went on a cruise and ate all day for 7 days. We didn't take a lot of pictures, but thought I would share this one...

I just checked online and The Orleans has a 3rd night free special.... so it would average out at <$60 a night. We fly in around lunch time Wednesday and leave late Saturday (red eye). Looking forward to the Axiom event Thurs and meeting the rest of you at the Syndicate meet up Friday.

IIRC - The ISA website had rooms at the Luxor for $99 (Wed/Thurs) and $129 (weekend). It might have been $99 / $149 or something - but it's very convenient to the show facility and a better value for that $ than The Tropicana or Imperial Palace that would be in that price range. I waited to see what deals could be had as well and think you might be better off getting the numbers in front of you on the computer, then calling the hotels themselves and saying "so-and-so has rooms for $$ but is actually out of our way - can you do anything?"

Don't we have a regular poster on here from Alaska, who has made similar comments about LEDs before?

Sounds like they're basically using LED instead of neon for channel letters... the words "prototype LED letterset" is probably just the writer's way of saying they're doing something new. In places like Alaska there are HUGE benefits to going with LED. They burn brighter when it's cold and will last longer, whereas the opposite is true for neon. Go to Edmonton or something and you almost never see neon other than clear red - it looks like hell for half the year.

I had a look at that report last night. The big thing that stood out to me was the streetlights. The SSL (LED) fixtures performed extremely well compared to HPS fixtures. With even a 3rd of the powr an measured lumens, they actually appear brighter and cleaner than HPS simply because of color temperature. The visual acuity of the human eye is much better at color temperatures in the 5~7K range, which LEDs fall nicely into - everything looks brighter and sharper even with considerably less measured light. Works great for outdoors, but products have to be much warmer for indoors. The replacement lamps (many from offshore) still fall short in many ways as CALiPER proves. We've been toying with this for 3 years and still don't have something we feel is adequate to tool up and release to the market at the right price for mass use. Manuel - are you aware of any Permlight stuff being used in the downlight testing here?

LOL. Well played.

Most of those things are excessive and don't need regulation - though California's brownouts do require some sort of added conservation. I don't see anything wrong with turning lights off in office buildings at night, though. It used to be they were left on to avoid the start-up problems and high voltage surges every morning, and to extend the life of the fluorescent lamp. There have since been improvements with both ballasts and lamps, as well as lowered lamp costs, which offset these issues to a large extent. I mean really - unless you leave all your house lights on 24-7, or shop & office lights on 24-7... how is it any different to leave empty office buildings on 24- as well? It makes no sense. I dislike that they feel legislation is he way to make it happen, but the intention isn't wrong.

Right, and I bet you guys leave all your shop lights on 24-7 to prevent burglaries?

OK then. I'll send new product for the mini test, as well as replacement product for the first GW test... You can either rip the stuff out now, or wait, but no point taking more readings until the new stuff is in.

Yeah - you really have to test first to be sure about the LED spacing. It really is necessary to bring more modules closer together to make up for the lack of distance to the face. Those TFT modules in the picture, for example, not only have a taller LED but are mounted in a very cumbersome holder. It's no surprise that you've had problems with many of the mainstream products doing what you need them to do. === What is the status of this secondary test anyways - are you ready for materials at this point Erik?

Philips bought TIR 2 years ago, but there's *a whole lot* more to the company than what TIR brings to the table. They bought up Color Kinetics also, for about 10x what they paid for TIR. One other thing (mostly for Erik). It's Philips with one L, not two. You've been spelling it wrong for ages, but now that they are a paying sponsor...

Go ahead Erik - put your wife on your ignore list. Tell us how that works out for you ;)

Both. My observation from the outset was that communication and understanding seemed to be the biggest problem here - showing you and Fancher a better way to do the former helps with the latter - for everyone.

Tip of the day: When in a page or program, you can go "CTRL + PrtScn" and it copies the contents of your active window into your clipboard. You can then paste it anywhere... even use the "Paste" function in Corel to stick it into your workspace. Images are nice and clean and are a great way to make tutorials or discuss problems with nice clear images of exactly why you see on the screen - even pull down menus if they are down when you do the printscreen function. Corel then allows you to trim or node edit the outline of the images. If you have Corel open, give it a try. Just do the "CTRL + PrtScn" right here in your browser, then paste it into Corel. This is also a good way to get some quick and easy jpg proofs of designs. You can always export files, but you can cut down steps and reduce the number of "conversion" files on your system by simply pasting your designs right into Photoshop, etc. (or export right out of Corel to jpg, of course, but this lets you copy and paste very quickly, especially from your browser or other programs without robust export functions). /tip

+1. Just because it's a public forum, it doesn't mean it's a medium to air out every grievance, or make it into a drawn out typefest that no longer serves any useful purpose. How about you take a valium and just wait for the thing to get shipped back to you. I'm sure you'll report back with an update.

Seems to me like this is a problem of poor communication (on both sides) and lack of basic understanding of the issues (again, by both sides). Seller: Piss poor manual. Buyer: Piss poor computer know how. Seller: Piss poor support and communication. Buyer: Piss poor attitude and communication, then going off on public rants making himself look like an ass. Seller: Has a chance to redeem himself, but then stoops to the level of the buyer by going off on public rants. The grammar has been horrendous, but let's put that aside... If Fancher can actually take the time to rewrite a simple manual in easy-to-understand English, this problem could be avoided in the future. Whatever video you're going to take to defend yourself to this forum - make that available to future customers. There's no reason why you can't do this in a single day, which is more than covered by the cost of a single sale. Even when the customer is a belligerent pain in the ass - you made yourself look equally bad in the way you are handling the responses here. You had the opportunity to take the high road but instead showed why others should probably avoid buying from you. If George can keep his blood pressure down and not fly off the handle when he doesn't have the technical know-how to do some basic computer+device troubleshooting, it would help the situation also. The fault could be completely on the supplier, but your comprehension and communication skills seem to be the biggest impediment to solving the problem here. You had an opportunity to educate fellow sign makers of a suspect supplier but didn't make yourself any allies with the way you presented things and then proceeded to attack anyone who wondered WTF you were talking about. All I can do is shake my head at this epic failure of a forum thread.

Green font for sarcasm chubby - the new thing to help make it clear for those who need everything made 110% clear.

Seems like a bot is doing this, not any person. There are certain security precautions that sometimes need to be taken once it becomes know that sites can be exploited like this. Signweb is a phpbb (which I prefer) while this forum is an IPBoard. Many features are similar and security patches are available - just make sure you do look for them every so often. I had one of my boards completely hacked, not just by spambots but by a malicious user overseas, who had a sniffer-bot to seek out forums with certain security weaknesses. Erik - during the install of this forum onto your server, you had to use files such as install.php, etc... that are supposed to be deleted after completion. Leaving these executable files on the server leaves you open to this kind of attack, or much worse.