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Erik Sine

I Need Your Input please

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As for tests being done, I am in the same boat as I am sure you are. I have asked for samples and was told I would be getting them (from more than just Signeye's former employer). Nothing has come yet.


I am long gone from that place but I will do what I can to keep my word and get you the results. It really is no secret and you can make your own evaluation by using a digital camera and adjusting the f stops for brightness. Longevity will take time as we have debated but it's right in your back yard, so I ask, how does it look?

To address the point of the thread, I think there has been alot of great posts and I think that everybody needs to roll with the punches and accept alot of the BS that goes with the industry.

WCSG, I love the site and I think you should bring about 5000 buisness cards to Vegas and hand them out or just drop them on the floor in all the neon and LED booths! That will help get the word out.

Also, Having been born into the industry I think that the journeyman is really the lost factor here. My father was trained as a union journeyman and trained countless others...that just is not the case anymore. Unions had a place in this country a long time ago but that has passed. Until some form of training comes back into play this industry will be full of know it alls and helpers...no good. As I have posted in other threads, if you don't get involved at some level of associations everybody will continue to just screw the pooch. I guess I am just the kettel calling the pot black as for the third time in my sign carrer I have run away but I do applaud the people who stay for the punishment of having to deal with the people who come into the industry thinking it's a no brainer and can just sub out everything. :bitchin: My mom always said that any yahoo with a pickup and a ladder can call themself a sign person (very pc huh!) Damn shame we can't hold ourselves to a higher level.

Don't give this up, this site will continue to grow...hang on brother.

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Also Travis , I know for sure you have samples of my old product unless Jim has hijacked them...if he has, I still have some and will send them to you if you want.

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I have always had a passion for neon art, and finding this site was like striking the mother lode for me. I'm a lurker, I'm not in the business (yet) and I love the personalities, the photos, the stories and threads like this.

Thank you for making my Friday evening web excursions worthwhile.


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A. Is the timing of a site like this, for this aspect of the trade the wrong time? Because benders, shop owners, journeymen and installers of this aspect of the trade much older where an online community is of no interest? I come to this conclusion because here locally I've even tried to get some friends and acquaintances who initially sounded interested but become a "no show", and the age group is usually above 47. Is online communication too far ahead of the baby boomer generation who seem to run the industry?

Is it fear of spreading ideas to your competition? Is it too intimidating getting involved?

I too, like Freddy, started this post a while ago, but had to put it aside til now.

It would take a month of Sundays to respond to all the fine posts in this thread. So, I'm going to limit my post to Erik's original.

A. Does the population of the Electric Sign trade on average consist of old fogies who have no interest in becoming members of an Online community? Well, I'm old, but not a fogie. In fact, I was born the year that is considered to be the first year of the baby boomer era. And my answer to that question is an emphatic NO! Plus, I believe there were, on average, more old folks in the trade when I started almost 50 years ago. I may be wrong. My idea of old may have changed somewhat in those 50 years. I realized 10 years ago, when I traded in my leisure suit for my first computer, the many benefits of this wonderful invention of Al Gore's, the Internet, and computers in general many years before the Internet.

B. I've never thought that what we used to call the Old Dutchman's theory (sorry, Ray); that is, fear of spreading ideas to competitors, would ever pose a problem. I've always been willing to share my knowledge of the trade with anybody, if I sensed a true passion to learn. I'm probably like that because that's one of the ways I learn.

C. What can be intimidating about honest discourse? I guess I don't understand the question.

I've already given my opinion on the chat room. Now, you want to talk about intimidating, the chat room is intimidating. But it has nothing to do with content; everything to do with style and method. This is one area where my oldness may come into play. I can't use the text messaging feature on my cell phone, either. I feel the forums rather than the chat room, and the shout box for that matter, can more seriously, and cohesively, relate a story, get ones point across, etc. Plus the forums are archived. This is not to say that chat and shout should be removed. Just that I never visit the chat room and seldom SHOUT. But I do enjoy reading Shout, if I can get it to hold still long enough.

"Is this site not serious enough?" SG, are you trying to get everybody to run back to signindustries.com? That's like asking if you'd rather be taught by a professor who realizes your potential, or one who thinks all students are numb-nuts who have to have instruction beat into them. Nothing wrong with Professional intercourse (1st definition) being enjoyable. This Pub, as you fondly call it (and I agree 100%), should be the hallmark of every industry wide (any industry) forum. I personally can't think of a thing you could do to make it better. This is something I've thought since I joined, and yet you've changed it several times, and each time I've concluded that the members are fortunate to have you at the helm, especially when you picked your moderators. :P

I think there are 2 reasons more people don't get involved in this forum. The minor reason is a lack of self confidence. The causes of this lack of confidence are subject for another thread. Maybe this answers my own question about the forum being intimidating. The major reason more people don't get involved has already been given by Mr. Gary Nutting. Apathy. This lack of enthusiasm is not symptomatic of just the sign industry, or just industry for that matter. It's a world wide epidemic.

I have also told many people about the Syndicate. People who I thought for sure would get something out of it. I have yet to see evidence that one of them has joined or even visited. Their loss.


I do it in the transformer box.


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You guys have got me thinking a bit about the people I have told about this site and some I have even brought them to the site most likely to show a funny clip or something. I also dont think that I have seen a one of them here afterwards. A few of the guys I know for a fact that they visit other sign related forums. I think the reason they go to the forums they do is because of their particular area of work that they like. For example one guy is into digital printing and we just got a new machine so he is always checking out that kind of stuff. Another guy is our awning fabricator so those are the forums he goes to. One guy doesnt do anything electrical and the other for the most part all he does is attach a premade fixture inside the awning and let the installer take care of the rest.

Now those of us that are regulars and those that are new know that a person can ask 'any' question about 'anything', sign related or not, and get answers or opinions. An example would be the little tounge twister I posted the other day. What the hell did that have to do with anything sign related,,, absolutely nothing. But a couple folks posted behind it and had a little fun with it. That is a joy of this site.

I am curious what the percentage is of how many folks, registered or unregistered, that visit once come back for another visit. Probably kind of hard to tell as I am sure many people have multiple computers that they use. But if that could be figured out I would imagine the percentage to be fairly high.


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Mr west coast,

you heard a lot of american tales,

in europe its just the same

All secrets and no sharing,its unthinkable to share tech.stuff to inprove the trade

i was so brave to film a bit of the proces and put it on the net,i dare you to find more toofage like this

i paid good money to learn the trade and talk verry open about it

the way i see it ,the better we become ,the more people trust our skills and product

neon will be here forever,but we decide how we go on from here

by the way,i like the site,but its verry hard to start a forum or site about the signmob

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Thanks for the email for my comment, I've been here at the Sign Synd. for a couple months. Not much here really helps me cuz i'm in a different profession. However, I do like being able to to see some of the work that you guys do, cuz if I ever need a sign done I know where to come. I love the games that you have here and the people are cool to chat with. I still and will always check in from time to time to see if anything maybe useful to me. So please don't get rid of this site.

Loyal subscriber!

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My opinion is relatively the same as everyone elses. I was taught the trade 4yr ago through a retired bender/sign maker/ shop owner. While beign employed @ a large shop locally here. They didn't have a bender or shop and relied on a source 4hrs away. I saw this as an opportunity which I presented to my current employer who was encouraging to my endavor to become a bender & open my own wholesale shop. This shortly turned to a constant baggering to move it into their shop / sell intrest to them. My independance was rewarded with a termination. The old man who taught me sold me his equipment + 3K for his time and knowledge.

Since I have taught 2 and neither are still employeed. Also hired one w/ 15yr ex. who also has left now. I'm in a small town and we do a considerable amount of work for numerous comanies from middle TN , North AL , North MS , .

The chat rooms and message boards are a benifit but as for myself when I'm not working I don't generally post or look unless there is something that I have a question about or have been notified by email that I have been asked something. If we do something unusual I try to post.

I just don't think for the most part that everyone has the time.

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