My New Boss is an Idiot

[signgirlie]

Ok...here is my story....

My boss is an idiot. He purchased a sign shop in Middle America and he bought it because A TEST TOLD HIM HE WOULD BE GOOD AT IT.

When he hired me, he stated it was because I had over 11 years in the field. The other gentleman that he hired has over 8. Well we tell him till we are blue in the face and he ignores us. He wants everything done the "office" way which is not the sign way. He is also a former LT. Col. in the US Army. Which I appaude. I love working for a military man...but he has no clue and when we try to give him one...well we are wrong....

He now wants me to go to our competition and pretend to be stupid and find out prices. Not illegal...but unethical and I don't want to do it.

He also has me doing cold calls to companies who are just starting out. One cussed me because her purchase of her company was under a no disclosure agreement and she wanted to know how i found out. Told her I got her name from my boss.

Can you say headbanger.......stress giver.........we want to shoot ourselves...

Anybody with any advise? HELP US

[Erik Sine]

Good god I feel for you.

I still remember having to rinse out 50 cent foam brushes for reuse over 5 times. I spent more time washing them out then the cost to buy a new one. Also, through all the fog and smoke I remember painting channel letters in the back of the shop which was a full retail shopping center, we had to wheel the dumpsters out of the storage barricade and close the metal door behind us then spraying away.

I think the funny part knowing how stupid the boss thought I was, good times. Shortly after leaving, it was his installers who soon started to work for me

As the world turns

[TelfordDorr]

Now You know why 'Dilbert' cartoons are so popular...

[signgirlie]

yes...now i understand the dibert dilemma.

[Brian]

yes...now i understand the dibert dilemma.

Very simple Quit or stay there and don't complain

[signgirlie]

Very simple Quit or stay there and don't complain

Well quitting isn't an option unless I can find another job. Kinda have to pay bills. And I can complain if I want.....its my party

[Brian]

Well quitting isn't an option unless I can find another job. Kinda have to pay bills. And I can complain if I want.....its my party

As an owner myself I feel that if you are getting a check every week (many people are not) then you have to play by my rules - NOT your party

[TelfordDorr]

As an owner myself I feel that if you are getting a check every week (many people are not) then you have to play by my rules - NOT your party

It's the dilemma of being put in a position of having to do stuff the wrong way or an illegal way or a just plain stupid way that has her upset. Just because it's your party doesn't mean that you (not you personally) should be such a blockheaded know-it-all that accepting any input from employees is inconceivable. Continually pissing off all your employees is not conducive to employee loyalty and respect. You should know what having employees who don't give a rat's red rear about your company's welfare will bring. Just a word of advice.

[Brian]

It's the dilemma of being put in a position of having to do stuff the wrong way or an illegal way or a just plain stupid way that has her upset. Just because it's your party doesn't mean that you (not you personally) should be such a blockheaded know-it-all that accepting any input from employees is inconceivable. Continually pissing off all your employees is not conducive to employee loyalty and respect. You should know what having employees who don't give a rat's red rear about your company's welfare will bring. Just a word of advice.

I didn't see that she said anything about doing anything the wrong way or illegal. Just because she doesn't like to make cold calls does not make her boss an idiot. What is the "office way"? I just don't see anything that warrants her saying her boss is an idiot

But thanks for the advice anyway

[TelfordDorr]

I didn't see that she said anything about doing anything the wrong way or illegal. Just because she doesn't like to make cold calls does not make her boss an idiot. What is the "office way"? I just don't see anything that warrants her saying her boss is an idiot.

It depends on what her normal job is. I gathered from her remarks that she wasn't general office staff - general office work is more independent of company type than other positions, thus there wouldn't likely be a 'sign way' to it. I also assumed (and thus could be wrong about this) that her position wasn't in sales, as 'cold calls' are a normal part of that job description. Thus, that would leave her as a designer, bender, fabricator, assembler, painter, installer, or some other type of 'shop' technical position. Having such a non-sales person doing 'cold calls' is mostly pointless, unless your goal is to alienate possible future customers. IMHO, sales is not something that just anybody can do well, and a completely inexperienced-in-sales person should not be required to do so. New-to-sales sales people should always work with an experienced person to develop the required skills. They are, after all, your company's representatives to the outside world.

Requiring any (especially non-sales) person to go out and lie to the competition to gather pricing data is poor management at best. If you're gonna do that, either do it yourself or go hire a good expendable, scruple-less lier to do the dirty work.

As for the last point, any smart business owner knows that intelligent experienced employees are a godsend and should be cultivated as the valuable resource that they are (and offhand, she didn't sound like a Bozo, to me.) If you're trying to start up a business that you have little to no direct experience in, one would think that having such employees would be worth their weight in gold, so to speak. For him to not recognize that would certainly cause me to question his smarts.

Now, that said, after accepting their input, as an owner you have every right to choose to do things contrary to the employees suggestions. Once that is explained to them, then the discussion is over. At that point, they either comply or move on.

Just my personal opinion, as a business owner / co-owner for the last 25 years or so.

[Brian]

It depends on what her normal job is. I gathered from her remarks that she wasn't general office staff - general office work is more independent of company type than other positions, thus there wouldn't likely be a 'sign way' to it. I also assumed (and thus could be wrong about this) that her position wasn't in sales, as 'cold calls' are a normal part of that job description. Thus, that would leave her as a designer, bender, fabricator, assembler, painter, installer, or some other type of 'shop' technical position. Having such a non-sales person doing 'cold calls' is mostly pointless, unless your goal is to alienate possible future customers. IMHO, sales is not something that just anybody can do well, and a completely inexperienced-in-sales person should not be required to do so. New-to-sales sales people should always work with an experienced person to develop the required skills. They are, after all, your company's representatives to the outside world.

Requiring any (especially non-sales) person to go out and lie to the competition to gather pricing data is poor management at best. If you're gonna do that, either do it yourself or go hire a good expendable, scruple-less lier to do the dirty work.

As for the last point, any smart business owner knows that intelligent experienced employees are a godsend and should be cultivated as the valuable resource that they are (and offhand, she didn't sound like a Bozo, to me.) If you're trying to start up a business that you have little to no direct experience in, one would think that having such employees would be worth their weight in gold, so to speak. For him to not recognize that would certainly cause me to question his smarts.

Now, that said, after accepting their input, as an owner you have every right to choose to do things contrary to the employees suggestions. Once that is explained to them, then the discussion is over. At that point, they either comply or move on.

Just my personal opinion, as a business owner / co-owner for the last 25 years or so.

I still think she should quit and if I was the owner I would fire her

Just my opinion - but I only have 22 years as business owner

[signgirlie]

I still think she should quit and if I was the owner I would fire her

Just my opinion - but I only have 22 years as business owner

Good thing you know how to handle a sign shop since you have been a business owner for 22 years. Did you not read what I said, Or was that to freakin difficult for you. I mean being a owner and all. I said he had me doing cold calls. That is not the real problem. I also said that he had me going to the competition and getting their prices. Now..I know this is NOT ILLEGAL, I said it is UNETHICAL. Do you see the diffence again? Illegal would be me getting one of his clients and taking them for myself. That would be illegal. I know this...cause we got a big ole class on it years ago about stealing customers. Its a federal offense if the money amounts are high enough.

I have problems with someone who thinks because they have a degree in Management they know how a sign company works. It isn't like walking into a dry cleaner or ice cream shop and having milk issues or washer issues. I deal with sign codes every day. I deal with customers who want to know the truth.

I have problems with an owner who thinks because he went to a site and took a picture that is all we need to do our job. You ask about measurements, he says well I don't know..you don't need that. Then says, what is the code for that area. What can he have. My question, is what is there now?

The owner feels that it is the customers responsibility to tell us what his measurements are.

Example....a customer called in wanting a quote for a sign. The owner went to the site and took picutres. Wants us to give him a quote and graphics for a sign on this location. Great, but we have no measurements to know what size so that we can do a quote. The owner feels that we shouldn't have to provide that. That would be the customers job. And we can't get it thru his thick BS degree that it is our responsibiltiy.

Fire me...Okay...that would be your choice, and that is fine. But I want this place to suceed. Not going to happen if you can't get the customer the right information off the bat.

so again...its my party...btw...my training is being a project manager...and here's one for you....I have also ran a small shop in Florida before I moved with my new husband.

[TelfordDorr]

measurements are.

[snip]

And we can't get it through his thick BS degree that it is our responsibility.

Well duh! What's the customer supposed to do, get out his really tall ladder, scale the wall with his tape measure in hand? Might require them to provide the production drawings as well! Now if your boss can just get the customer to go ahead and build it himself, then the only remaining job is to collect the check.

This is the difference between a 'full service' [e.g. real] sign company and one that isn't.

I congratulate your desire to try and make this place work, but personally I would keep an eye open for greener pastures...

[Brian]

Good thing you know how to handle a sign shop since you have been a business owner for 22 years. Did you not read what I said, Or was that to freakin difficult for you. I mean being a owner and all. I said he had me doing cold calls. That is not the real problem. I also said that he had me going to the competition and getting their prices. Now..I know this is NOT ILLEGAL, I said it is UNETHICAL. Do you see the diffence again? Illegal would be me getting one of his clients and taking them for myself. That would be illegal. I know this...cause we got a big ole class on it years ago about stealing customers. Its a federal offense if the money amounts are high enough.

I have problems with someone who thinks because they have a degree in Management they know how a sign company works. It isn't like walking into a dry cleaner or ice cream shop and having milk issues or washer issues. I deal with sign codes every day. I deal with customers who want to know the truth.

I have problems with an owner who thinks because he went to a site and took a picture that is all we need to do our job. You ask about measurements, he says well I don't know..you don't need that. Then says, what is the code for that area. What can he have. My question, is what is there now?

The owner feels that it is the customers responsibility to tell us what his measurements are.

Example....a customer called in wanting a quote for a sign. The owner went to the site and took picutres. Wants us to give him a quote and graphics for a sign on this location. Great, but we have no measurements to know what size so that we can do a quote. The owner feels that we shouldn't have to provide that. That would be the customers job. And we can't get it thru his thick BS degree that it is our responsibiltiy.

Fire me...Okay...that would be your choice, and that is fine. But I want this place to suceed. Not going to happen if you can't get the customer the right information off the bat.

so again...its my party...btw...my training is being a project manager...and here's one for you....I have also ran a small shop in Florida before I moved with my new husband.

sounds like you have a problem with authority. If you are the project manager why is the owner going on site to take pics?

With your nasty attitude no wonder the owner won't listen to you. If your shop in Florida was a success I suggest you go back there because you know everything and will never be able to work under anyone else. You got on here and ask for comments and when they are not what you want to hear you jump all over us - Isn't that what you are complaining about in the first place?

[Brian]

Good thing you know how to handle a sign shop since you have been a business owner for 22 years. Did you not read what I said, Or was that to freakin difficult for you. I mean being a owner and all.

Nice

[fishing nut]

My opinion is that the owner does not necessarily have to know what needs to be done, just make sure that the check clears at the end of the week, It does help a lot though. A project Managers duty is to manage the project. Would that fall under the relm of knowing what needs to be done and how?

If you want it to be a succes then I would offer to buy the shop.

Mary, the Allen industries you have in your bio, is that in Tampa? That is a very credible national account company. Why did you leave, or you working at the sister location a few states North.

[signgirlie]

sounds like you have a problem with authority. If you are the project manager why is the owner going on site to take pics?

With your nasty attitude no wonder the owner won't listen to you. If your shop in Florida was a success I suggest you go back there because you know everything and will never be able to work under anyone else. You got on here and ask for comments and when they are not what you want to hear you jump all over us - Isn't that what you are complaining about in the first place?

I don't go because the owner won't let anyone go but himself. Today we ran into another issue. The customer wanted four (4) d/f alumacore 48" x 48" signs manufactured. The owner didn't get the correct information and now we don't have enough product. He wrote it up as four (4) s/f alumacore 48" x 48" signs. And promised the customer who ordered the signs yesterday that they would be done by 5. He won't let me call the customer and let him know we have run into a problem. And he hasn't called the customer and the customer will be here in a bit. And the owner has left the building. Hmmm...guess i am in for another tail chewing.

Authority problems...Nope...I don't mind Authority...I was in the military. I rather love it...but I hate stupid people.

Now shall I line you up in that catagory or shall I take it that when you know what you are talking about and sitting in my shoes that you might pull your head out and see the full picture.

[signgirlie]

My opinion is that the owner does not necessarily have to know what needs to be done, just make sure that the check clears at the end of the week, It does help a lot though. A project Managers duty is to manage the project. Would that fall under the relm of knowing what needs to be done and how?

If you want it to be a succes then I would offer to buy the shop.

Mary, the Allen industries you have in your bio, is that in Tampa? That is a very credible national account company. Why did you leave, or you working at the sister location a few states North.

Yes, that is in Tampa. I left to take over a shop in Orlando. Ran it for 2 years, got married and moved. Forgot that I hadn't changed my bio. I am now in Missouri

[signgirlie]

sounds like you have a problem with authority. If you are the project manager why is the owner going on site to take pics?

With your nasty attitude no wonder the owner won't listen to you. If your shop in Florida was a success I suggest you go back there because you know everything and will never be able to work under anyone else. You got on here and ask for comments and when they are not what you want to hear you jump all over us - Isn't that what you are complaining about in the first place?

Not really asking for someone to tell me that I should be fired. I would love to be able to Project Manage like I was hired to do. However, I am not allowed because the owner thinks that he should do it all. I miss working. I love the business...however, this is not a sign shop. Should be and could be if the owner would take mine and my co-worker's advice. The owner has staff meetings every morning and we give him ideas and how to make this more productive. However, we get shot down every time. I am the one who needed to vent. Better to vent here then to take it home to my family or go off on the boss. I bite my tongue a lot. However, You really ticked the wrong nerve. Sorry if you were offended....My main objective here was to vent...no more no less.

[Brian]

[quote name='signgirlie' date='Sep 30 2008, 12:02 PM' post='14520'

Authority problems...Nope...I don't mind Authority...I was in the military. I rather love it...but I hate stupid people.

Now shall I line you up in that catagory or shall I take it that when you know what you are talking about and sitting in my shoes that you might pull your head out and see the full picture.

How professional... I just can't understand why the owner won't listen to you

[fishing nut]

Best of luck sign girlie. Bite the bullet and pass the buck off on the boss with the customer. If he is screwing up make sure the customer knows it is not you. I personally would find another shop, network through your distributors. They will know the good and the bad companies to work for and who is hiring without spending tons of $ on gas driving around.

Why would you move from sunny Florida?

[signgirlie]

Best of luck sign girlie. Bite the bullet and pass the buck off on the boss with the customer. If he is screwing up make sure the customer knows it is not you. I personally would find another shop, network through your distributors. They will know the good and the bad companies to work for and who is hiring without spending tons of $ on gas driving around.

Why would you move from sunny Florida?

I am biting the bullet. LOL.....Hopefully the ecomomy will pick up and more sign shops will hire in the area. Move from sunny florida...well we got a great deal on a house with 20+ acres and I love seasons. No seasons in floraduh.....unless you count hot and hotter. LOL

[redarmymember]

Well quitting isn't an option unless I can find another job. Kinda have to pay bills. And I can complain if I want.....its my party

You want to relocate? It is always 70 degrees and never rains here in Alabama.

[signgirlie]

You want to relocate? It is always 70 degrees and never rains here in Alabama.

Oh..that is sooo wrong. My home is Alabama. LOL...and I know how wrong that statement is...tee hee hee. Matter of fact, my hometown is Dothan. I miss Alabama....I miss going to a restaurant and getting sweet tea, and I miss all my Tide buddies!

[redarmymember]

Oh..that is sooo wrong. My home is Alabama. LOL...and I know how wrong that statement is...tee hee hee. Matter of fact, my hometown is Dothan. I miss Alabama....I miss going to a restaurant and getting sweet tea, and I miss all my Tide buddies!

Well you cant blame a guy for a little white lie. It is hard to find good sign people that know what they are doing and don't require micromanagement. It is so refreshing to just give a guy a work order and he/she "gets it done". I have run into some people like your boss, people who have been successful in other business and think they can buy/open a sign shop and "correct" all those dumb sign people (employees) who actually do know what they are doing. Besides, you have to question the sanity of someone who "wants" to be in this business.

Oh, and on the chubby guy on this forum: I think you hit way too close to home for him, sounds like he is a lot like your boss.