SBI, SOT or DS&G for March 2011

[Erik Sine]

All seems quite this month.

Still haven't seen SOT yet but all others are already out. Unless I missed something, so far so good, no outrageous marketing statements where confetti falls from the skies or bad industry self written imploding claims where used car salesmen have taken the reigns from the editors.

I won't vote until after SOT comes out.

Updated 03/05/11 Damage control time for Signs of The Times *****

NOW YOU SEE IT!.....NOW YOU DON'T!

The "Community Organizer" decided to put on his black top hat and cape, cracking his knuckles under his white gloves and carefully waving his magic wand. He's become quite the magician this month with tricks of "spin" aimed at those who are against the "Environmental & Safety Product Movement" that is attempting to hijack this country and trade who know full well his articles have been nothing of propaganda and self promotion of manufacturers, obligation pieces from advertising. And now, they (us) have called him out on it.

The response, to quail the anger in mounting "Letters To The Editor". Now comes "Are they - LEDs- as bad as all that? By Darek Johnson.

Let's begin by noticing who the inside advertisement page is again this month, it's GE. So we know the great illusionist can't stray to far off his collar.

The "Community Organizer" begins the act with a dance, lighty touching on the individuals who have called him out which he has publicly published in his "letters to the editor", the ones he has chosen, and not the ones he omitted. Still don't see anything by myself. Hmmmmmm

Regardless, he lists a few names along with his two tech writers, the only ones with any creditability in his entire magazine I might ad. The illusion is set, showing you his cards of complaint mixing his deck with the cards of employed, thinking he can quail for what is to come.

What is interesting is the "Organizers" choice of words when it comes to Loren Hudson, "In HIS view, Neon won". That is not a opinion, nor a view, that is a fact. The Citgo sign just got re-retrofitted with LEDs when it could have simply been re-engineered using neon. Think of all the money that could have been saved, the total cost could have been thousands, maybe a hundread thousand versus the millions spent, now of which is on round TWO. But that possibility would never be raised. Did you know the salesmen for Heath for this job is a local congressman? Just throwing that out there, it makes the magicians backdrop seem more interesting.

So where are the key points the "Community Organizer" should be talking about?

The act isn't working out to well, the letters that were published nor unpublished, or published and omitted here are not being discussed on what they were asking for. Where is the ROI, true energy figures, the MIS-characterization of both light sources? The crowd is going silent, the crowd is short of "boo's"

Feeling the sweat under his brow he reaches into his bag of tricks. He decides to take the act another direction, distracting the crowd from his first act and what should be the focus. He decides to talk about LED general lighting use, and the views of Nisa. But what does this and traffic lights have to do with LEDs in sign lighting, what does this have to do with the scores of articles written by people like the "Magic Mouth" who is in China at this very moment in time, probably looking for a LED line to Private Label and apply to his probable patent pending double sided marshmellow campfire cookers to hold his LEDs in place for cabinet retrofits. No doubt he will return on stage with a magic act all his own. His old and continued act gave the crowd an illusion that 60%-80% in energy saving can take place, apples to apples! The ROI can be made up in a few years too! It was a wondrous trick at the time, jaw dropping even. That is.........until questioned. Questioned here, with of course, no reply by the "Mouth" himself who promised all that his claims would be verified and announced to his fellow colleagues. What of the Baltimore Aquarium obligation piece?

The "illusionist" who we know as the "Community Organizer" is attempting to compare apples to oranges, but using his wand to make the orange look like apples. He's desperately trying to drag in, and mix other electric signs such as RGB & Message Board LED , signs which have a legitimate place in our industry. Signs that no one has been questioning lately or at all, but using this to soften his act. Still no good, the boo's now filter through onto the stage.

The wave of a wand, the "Organizer" motions the next act. Large and small dogs enter the staging floor. In his mind, he thinks the big dogs are here to save the show. Trying to get his big dogs to jump through hoops and do somersaults. He puts a cape behind a hoop and motions for the big dog to jump through and disappear. As soon as it jumps through and into the black cape, the dog continues through the cape. It didn't disappear as planned! Uh oh! The crowd bursts into laughter.

The "Community Organizer" just doesn't get it. He once thought of himself as a championed chess piece for the industry, that fights for the industry...... and never saw himself as someone who would be opposed to by the populace, and called out himself. Sure he does some good for the industry, but the negative that has happened in our industry partially rests on his lap. Never did he probably think a day where an "Electric Sign Tea Party Movement" would be knocking on his front door. Harvey Dent said it best, "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

In his own mind he thinks that if the big national companies are doing it a certain way, then that's the correct way to go. After all, they are the big dogs, so they MUST be doing something right? I don't think he understands that probably half if not more (I think more, you can quote me) of signs produced by National Companies are complete crap! Built with the idea in mind where the main focus is "Bottomline, & Convenience". It's not about using the best light source for the application at ALL.

Let's look at the "Light Engine" figure illustration, and think to ourselves, estimate in your own mind, will this sign have equal or greater brightness once mixed into the world of other signs that it will co-exist with this particular sign, without taking a light meter to it? Also, those wattage figures are a little off, they don't even include or account for efficiency loss.

Here is the part that kills the show all together for anyone who IS actually in the electric sign industry and the curtain must be closed fast so the food being thrown does not land on stage, nor hit the performer.

Red Neon, versus Red LEDs.

Time over and over this comparison is thrown out. Let's get real, how many dog and pony acts have we seen with this comparison, how many red light components get sold versus white? White is so much more widely used. What isn't mentioned is the fact that Red Neon will not degrade over time in light like an LED will. Also, Red neon is not temperature sensitive, like LEDs . See, more pro's and con's that are omitted, the "Community Organizer" tried to make that disappear along with his large dog, but the trick failed.

The magic acts that were not shown this round were the power consumption levels of white neon vs HP White LEDs, ROI on Fluorescent cabinets vs LED cabinets and the 20+ years it can take to make it back using LEDs.

The difference in cost in materials for a retrofit of a large fully loaded double sided, four ballast fluorescent system from a T12 magnetic to new T12 lamps and electronic ballast is under $600, convert this system to LED and you pay over $11,000.00 in materials. BUT, you will save $367.09 in energy annually using LEDs instead of fluorescents, NOW let's hear it for SAVINGS,let the confetti and streamers fall from the sky!!!

I'm 37 now, I'll break even when I'm 57, after a few more re-retrofits of course. So, maybe I'll never, ever see those saving on my initial investment.

Even in the here, the Community Organizer falls short of telling the readership this information. Maybe Isaac Duke omitted to say,or the Organizer left it out on purpose as to not offend the "cake". Yes, we all know, "nothing beats HO T12 lamps" and they are better, BUT tell the audience why. Explain yourself. We won't hear some numbers or calculations when it favors CCFL (formally Neon) or CFL lamps in sign project articles written in the community Organizers magazine, but we sure and hell will hear it when it comes to favor LEDs. To add, the tax credits and or rebates one might get for using a product that is "green" (which translates into pay more and get less in return). Do you want to take a guess at who pays for that? Do you think the energy utility company hands those out of generosity? Or do you think we might pay for that in tax payer stimulus dollars (our tax dollars), or in those hidden tax fees we see dozens of at the end of OUR bill? In either case, YOU and I pay for someone Else's tax credit/rebate because they bought and use a product that has a very low ROI (Return On Investment) so our tax dollars are used to handicap it, otherwise it couldn't make it on it's own. Welcome "Green", the new red.

I've had enough, nor can I stomach the Community Organizers Enchilada, it doesn't look appetizing to me. It doesn't look hand made at all, it looks like Jack In The Box's processed taco meat. A meat to this day I still can't identify.

This month the Organizer get's a big "D" for his effort to quail the crowd of industry men and women who have continually written him letters of disappointment. Reluctant to answer questions about how he's aided in destroying the very industry he serves his Enchilada's to.

Until that time when the Organizer stops MIS-characterizing Neon, LEDs, and Fluorescent light products and "Organizes" a better way to put them in their proper context/place and explain why certain light sources fit better in other areas. Provide articles that generate real numbers that show what the advantage's are for using certain light sources over others.

LEDs, Neon and Fluorescent lamps ALL, have their place in the sign industry. It's his responsibility to explain and publish well balanced articles , or, he will continually become less a figurehead, and seize to be that champion of an industry he envisioned of himself as, and spearheads.

Technically this article should have been written by the Community Organizer himself, since he runs the circus. Surely it was though better to not endorse such a thing, personally and possibly to save face. Instead, championing EMC's, a sure win is much better for him.

There is a reason why this magic show is free, it's advertisers paid for the show, and they must fill it with an audience they can fool

[Erik Sine]

updated

[imanut]

Nice write up Eric. Perhaps at the ISA show these sign mags will offer you a drink and casual conversation? doubt it.

gn

[Erik Sine]

Nice write up Eric. Perhaps at the ISA show these sign mags will offer you a drink and casual conversation? doubt it.

gn

That's okay, Kgirl and I will buy YOU a drink!

[imanut]

Nice write up Eric. Perhaps at the ISA show these sign mags will offer you a drink and casual conversation? doubt it.

gn

That's okay, Kgirl and I will buy YOU a drink!

I'm really looking forward to the show - and the relaxing time. Sure hope that lots of other "strangers" on this forum will show up and meet everyone. Truly fun last night putting names to faces, and actually meeting. Heck, I still get emails from Lane, who was totally ripped on this forum and showed up and met everyone. Oh yeah - friendly emails too!

Should be another great time! I even called my 'bro to see if he wanted to come again. He enjoyed all the comraderie last time.

gn

[LiteGirl]

You had us laughing over here, good article!

[saneon]

Well written Erik

Thanks for keeping it REAL

[Erik Sine]

Here's where the Community Organizer and his Fraggles should focus when it comes to light source articles. Start weeding out the propaganda, send back what even remotely appears to come off as a fluff piece, obligation, or any piece that pushes Eco-Tyranny.

It's unfortunate due to the uninformed that I have to constantly take a stance that appears that I'm in opposition to LEDs use for light sources in signs, it can't be further from the truth!

They need to stop with the marketing "claims" and as the Community Organizer like to say "views", telling why they are choosing one light source over the other in the form of "inefficiency" because all these light sources have their advantages. This hurts not only our industry, but the bigger picture lays outside our industry where legislation can be written to kill our civil liberties and control our industry. The Community Organizer doesn't understand this.

There are all kinds of advantages in using LEDs for signs and it doesn't have to begin with the thought that other light sources are inferior, there are plenty of areas where LEDs have their short cummings. An advantage of using LEDs would be that there are not any good neon tube benders, maybe locally their processing stinks, or simply sucks. Cold weather applications, small size signs, signs with difficult installation, signs with difficult accessibility like high rises.

But it won't be portrayed that way, it's told to us that they are a replacement and the next best thing to sliced bread.

[ordwayaz]

+1, good to see you calling them out like it is. I don't open one of the magazines very often but when I do, it's the same old story.

[Sign God]

LMFAO Erik, good one!

[Erik Sine]

Hey Gary, be sure to ask for a napkin if you show up to any of their events. They want you to be "bohemian", errr, green, and use your shirt or pants for any beverage overages or condensation build up. You also might want to use the facilities of your own hotel room prior, they might decide to go bohemian with the toilet paper too.

@ The Community Organizer, to answer your question

It's no longer solitary but rather in solidarity, it once sounded like a single voice in the dark distance, now it's slowly starting to sound like ocean waves breaking and beating on a futile levee.

Maybe you should ask yourself if you SHOULD continue to ignore it, you just might continue to get soaked. Will you send someone else to repair the levee again, or will you do it this time?

[Sign God]

Ain't that some shit Erik? I looked back at the question he posed for everyone, didn't like the reply he got at first then decided to delete the whole thing. I remember from our talk along time ago you said they will try to ignore this site and pretend it doesn't exist, but they only could for so long. The time where they can only ignore the inevitable is finally here huh? Glad to see the folks here pulling through, using the SS for the layout and battle plan room. The organizer didn't like the angry letters from the members here who have had enough. Give credit to the good people here. Keep it up people!

Where the hell do you find these pictures? HHAHAAHAA

Edited March 17, 2011 by Sign God

[Kgirl]

Nice write up Eric. Perhaps at the ISA show these sign mags will offer you a drink and casual conversation? doubt it.

gn

That's okay, Kgirl and I will buy YOU a drink!

I'm really looking forward to the show - and the relaxing time. Sure hope that lots of other "strangers" on this forum will show up and meet everyone. Truly fun last night putting names to faces, and actually meeting. Heck, I still get emails from Lane, who was totally ripped on this forum and showed up and met everyone. Oh yeah - friendly emails too!

Should be another great time! I even called my 'bro to see if he wanted to come again. He enjoyed all the comraderie last time.

gn

I'm looking forward to ISA....I will really be able to let my hair down and enjoy you all.....Yeah!!!! I cannot wait to see you and of course that "cowboy" brother of yours........

xoxoxo

When are you arriving in Vegas?

[Kgirl]

LMFAO Erik, good one!

My words EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

[imanut]

K-girl - won't be getting in til Thursday morning. So we only have Thursday night, Friday night to party - I mean socialize ! Leave there on Saturday late afternoon.

gn

[Brian]

LEDs as bad as all that is the biggest piece of crap I have ever read! A total waste of paper.

[Erik Sine]

You just now received you issue of "Signs Fiction"?, or maybe perhaps finally just, found some time to stomach reading it.

[Brian]

You just now received you issue of "Signs Fiction"?, or maybe perhaps finally just, found some time to stomach reading it.

No read it a while back but was to dumbfounded to comment!

[Erik Sine]

That's the after effects of the Magic Act/Mouth that takes in an area out of the norm or where we should go. Sometimes we need that jolt of cold water to snap us out of it.

Sometimes once we wake up we find ourselves retarded backwards, regurgitating even what we just saw or heard to colleagues or clients for a short time.