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On 2/16/2011 on N. Glantz's FaceBook page there was a question raised on their wall by a client or fan of theirs.

They were asking if there was any sources they could go to to obtain information on benefits of energy savings using LEDs vs Neon in channel letters to show their clients. I pointed to some links here on some threads with various info. N.Glantz replied back pointing that person to Sloan LED's calculator.

I then replied back after using the calculator that it was a pretty accurate compared to most that I've seen. I then set up a quick ROI calculations using the GW3 modules with neon on a set of 10 channel letters, and what the basic costs were, the ROI was something like 15 years or so, something like that it was long term. Letting the person know that using that particular module, it wouldn't benefit savings on energy annually because of the upfront cost.

Now the post on their wall was deleted.

That's not very nice. Was it something I said? :gay:

Maybe if I would have plugged in JT LED's it would have stayed, but then we would get into a brightness issue as well.


Some people just don't like the truth when it doesn't benefit them, what TRULY happened to standing behind what you sell. just because it was a higher cost vs neon for CL's doesn't mean it couldn't be used for something else in another application, or on a high rise building and such.


This industry of ours, sometimes. How many more days till Vegas do we have? I need a beer. :beer-1:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I think you should have a both at the Vegas show pointing out the value(?) of LED's

It would be nice to bring the stuff to the Vegas show, and display the tests, also showing the pro's and con's of both light sources in the proper context. But, it's too expensive. Maybe a smaller show/convention. Though, I think it would be the most visited booth, and controversial. :gdmornincoffee:

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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Ask them about their so called move to phase out neon as I heard from the local Glantz distributor. Might be just certain locations but I never got my glass order over 2 months old. Funny how they gave me excuses when everyone else was more than willing to get the glass I needed....

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Ask them about their so called move to phase out neon as I heard from the local Glantz distributor. Might be just certain locations but I never got my glass order over 2 months old. Funny how they gave me excuses when everyone else was more than willing to get the glass I needed....

They just want to sell the cheapest junk LEDs they can buy!

Installation & Maintenance Services

Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Yeah, one of the answers I got was "You could start selling LEDs made by us" I told them to "f" off as they pissed me off.

I hope all the other LED manufacturers who N.Glantz supplies reads this because it's true. They push their partnered LEDs, jt LED pretty hard. Call them and tell them you're looking for LEDs and guess what the answer is.

I sent an email about my disappointment of the deleted wall post, it went unanswered.

Ask me if I'm surprised.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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They have a cool people working in my area but I am convinced it is management that is screwing things up. Since I have been in business, I dealt with 3 suppliers for glass and things. Every few years or so, I have found myself switching suppliers due to issues with pricing, availability and service. Seems the time is about right to go elsewhere and deal with a supplier that understands customer service.

I can understand Glantz and others not supplying neon items as much or keeping low stock on certain items due to the LED craze and everyone wanting to jump on the bandwagon, but after the last deal of not getting glass to this very day, I have to draw the line somewhere. Other times, if glass or certain neon items were not available, it would ship direct from the manufacture just to get the order filled....no more...IF this trend does take hold on just neon, I see manufactures selling direct to us neon sign shops and eliminating the suppliers.

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They have a cool people working in my area but I am convinced it is management that is screwing things up. Since I have been in business, I dealt with 3 suppliers for glass and things. Every few years or so, I have found myself switching suppliers due to issues with pricing, availability and service. Seems the time is about right to go elsewhere and deal with a supplier that understands customer service.

I can understand Glantz and others not supplying neon items as much or keeping low stock on certain items due to the LED craze and everyone wanting to jump on the bandwagon, but after the last deal of not getting glass to this very day, I have to draw the line somewhere. Other times, if glass or certain neon items were not available, it would ship direct from the manufacture just to get the order filled....no more...IF this trend does take hold on just neon, I see manufactures selling direct to us neon sign shops and eliminating the suppliers.

That's already happening, call your favorite component manufacturer, chances are they are one of the many who are already doing so. Their tired of the suppliers not stocking and having to drop ship, FOR them. Plus, they get to cut the middleman.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I think it is Larry Markert at N Glantz who handles most of the press or exposure to their LED offering and opinions about what Sign Syndicate says. I know he watches everything here but he never posts.

Larry use to work for a very respected group - Yorston and Associates - the owner of the company is a very stand up guy.

What really sucks for most of us is that the leading distributor in the USA is really ruining the market for LED systems - if you build/partner/or sell really cheap crap it will just ultimately put some pretty ugly marks on the technology as a whole.

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Isn't that what happened to neon as well? Shove it down our throats with overseas quality on a cheap scale and then sit back and reap the profits until it is bled dry from inferior products and poor workmanship. If I remember there was quite a period of "bad" neon coming from overseas but the price was too good to resist for most. It didn't take long to put a sour taste in the mouth of the customer while the real "neon" suffered. IMO LED's are heading in the same direction. The better LED's will surely suffer some lose just like neon.

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They have a cool people working in my area but I am convinced it is management that is screwing things up. Since I have been in business, I dealt with 3 suppliers for glass and things. Every few years or so, I have found myself switching suppliers due to issues with pricing, availability and service. Seems the time is about right to go elsewhere and deal with a supplier that understands customer service.

I can understand Glantz and others not supplying neon items as much or keeping low stock on certain items due to the LED craze and everyone wanting to jump on the bandwagon, but after the last deal of not getting glass to this very day, I have to draw the line somewhere. Other times, if glass or certain neon items were not available, it would ship direct from the manufacture just to get the order filled....no more...IF this trend does take hold on just neon, I see manufactures selling direct to us neon sign shops and eliminating the suppliers.

That's already happening, call your favorite component manufacturer, chances are they are one of the many who are already doing so. Their tired of the suppliers not stocking and having to drop ship, FOR them. Plus, they get to cut the middleman.

Just curious who the manufacturers are that are selling direct?

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I can't/won't speak for them, I'm sure they don't want to announce it in the open and cause a problem with their distributors, but if you're a regular customer of theirs, they'll make it happen.

Does WENSCO stock plenty of neon products, or do you order as they come or just drop ship?

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I guess I am coming in late to the discussion, but......

As primarilly a service compnay my issues are a little different from fabricators.

I hate that certain items, ie, CPA are no longer available.

I am tired of waitng days for a box of PK housings because they just aren't in stock in San Diego.

I LOATHE GELCORE and their 50 differnt modules and transformers. Thank goodness the 12 Volt 60 watt power supply is here and seems to be the standard unit today.

I do wish I knew more about the manufacturers of LED. I see lots of Hong Kong stuff, and don't know the good from the bad.

Rant OFF!

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I can't/won't speak for them, I'm sure they don't want to announce it in the open and cause a problem with their distributors, but if you're a regular customer of theirs, they'll make it happen.

Does WENSCO stock plenty of neon products, or do you order as they come or just drop ship?

We have plenty of neon products in stock. If we don't have something, we're happy to order it in for customers.

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Thank goodness the 12 Volt 60 watt power supply is here and seems to be the standard unit today.

I wish that were the case, wrong power supply on the wrong modules, poof! :wallbash:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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