Jump to content

Sticky Notes

Want to see more content on this site?

Register and Log In....It's FREE!!!  

 

Having Trouble?  Email us Link

 

Click the X to close this box

Kgirl Kgirl

ELECTRIC SIGN SUPPLIES

If You're Looking For Premium Electric Sign Industry Components Like Trim Cap, LED's, USHIO LED Lamps, Neon Supplies, or LED Power Supplies, Then Please Visit Our Online Store or Feel Free To Call Us For Inquiries or Placing an Order!!

Buy Now

NATIONAL SIGN & SERVICE COMPANY REVIEW LIST

For Sign Company's Who Work As Subcontractors

Before You Work For A National Sign & Service Company You Need To Look At The Reviews Of These Companies Before You Work For Them. Learn When To Expect Payment From Them and What It's Like To Work For Them, The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. Learn and Share Your Experiences Yourself For Others

You Must Be A Registered Member & A Subcontractor
Click Here

MEMBER LOCATION MAP

Looking for a fellow Sign Syndicate Company Member For A Sign Install or Maintenance Call? Locate a Supplier or Advertiser Regarding Thier Goods & Services?

Become a Member & Upgrade Your Free Membership So Others Can Locate You
Click Here

Recommended Posts

Been talking to a number of Sign Distributors and I have to shake my head when I hear of the big number of large national accounts that are usually bought and sold by the LED module manufacturers.

We all know the usual suspect LED manufacturers that run around to these large corporate chains (banks, food & retails) who market direct to what used to be our clients, which circumvents us the Sign Manufacturers in testing and evaluating what should work best for OUR national sign accounts.

I think it's been a HUGE, monstrous mistake on the part of the national retail, corporations, and banks to let a light source manufacturer sell them on one light source to fit all. It's throwing all your eggs into one basket "hoping" that light source holds up, and is a good return on investment over time, and of course compared to what else is in the market, even in different light sources. But what do they know? They get an expensive power point presentation along with an impressive dog and pony show, which isn't honest most of the time, it just favors what they're pimping.

I've seen a lot of National accounts go bad around town, most of the time it's with poorly lit, but expensive light source LED modules, maybe it should have even been Neon as a light source instead. A lot of times, the specification is COMPLETELY wrong, and it's something that was over sold, a project sold on very bad information, and very bad MISLEADING information.

These end clients who USED to be be fully ours, the food, retail and bank chains in choosing what components works best in our experience in case history . As a sign company who has decades, scores, maybe even the rare century of track record and experience who see's first hand and even knowingly is forced to purchase components we know not to be very good, or efficient is needed to complete large contracts in order to keep our business's going and growing.

But, now the big question. What steps can be made to take/bring that specification process back to the professionals, and away from these large light source manufacturers who know better than us????? Nobody knows better than us, after all, we don't use one specific light source for everything we do, well if you're a true professional of the trade you don't. We've seen light sources prevail and widely fail. Similarly to the testing we do here on the Sign Syndicate in light testing a number of large sign companies do their measuring with them. I've see, and heard too many times knowing the results with the light products here the mismatching of products to application.

As a sign company who comes across a large invitation to bid, what do you do when you see a specified component that you know isn't the right for the sign application? Maybe it's a inefficient product, too pricey vs quality, or you know it has a bad case history?

What can we do as an industry to bring this decision, the R&D back to the sign companies and bypass the LED manufacturers who hype, mislead, who can at times mismanage our clients, or potential clients? What are you doing, or are you just nodding your head ignoring the potential mistake and submitting your bids?

Would it help to bring the testing we do here in large high powered (Great White Hope), mid & mini (Project Tighty Whitey) light sources, Red Light District & Border Security in specialty light sources and even our future sign cabinet light source testing more to the forefront for even our end clients to see and monitor for themselves? Instead of keeping it so internal and within ourselves? That way they can see and witness what we do in measuring Neon, LEDs, and Fluorescent lamp technologies? Can this one aspect help and be a potential tool to point OUR clients to in aiding the sign program/specification process?

What else can be done to take our industry back to shed a "good" light in the evening times? It won't be asked or addressed anywhere else unfortunately.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By BTB Lighting & Supply, inc
      We are growing fast this year and we are looking for qualified service electricians and technicians. Smokers need not apply. d/l a must
    • By Erik Sine
      Maybe I should have titled it "That BrightON Halo Illumination"
       
      Thought I would share a project where our new High-End 24 volt, .8watt BrightON II LED Modules were used.
       
      As I've discussed before in the past.  There is a difference and a gap between "Usable Light" and "Competitive Light".  The BrightON II is the most efficient (Light per power) LED Module in it's class, and it is the definition of Competitive Light.
       
      As explained here and suggested for spacing, it was chosen to use the 3" module spacer, and obviously  you'll see as you scroll down the spacing could have even been much farther apart.
       
       

       
       
       
      Using the 3" spacers or 5" on center module to module spacing of the .8 watt will give you that extra punch for Halo and Day / Night faces, and you're looking at only $2 a foot buying a single bag of modules.  Important note is what you're getting for that $2 a foot.  Very easily module to module spacing could have been 7" OC, and a $1.45 a foot.
       
       

       
       

       
       
       

       
       
       
       
       
       
      The Grand Result?
       
       

       
       

       
       
       
      No over exposure here to make the lighting more extreme than "IRL"...in real life.  because I have another picture to share here of a neighboring sign that is made up of your standard front illuminated channel letters. 
       
       
       

       
       
       
      This is the very visual explanation of "Competitive Light". 
       
      The BrightON II Modules will give sign shops more versatility with their lighting projects, eliminating a 3 diode module & eliminating stocking more various modules with just simple spacing making the BrightON II a more universal product in your shop.  The reason?  Because the BrightON II meets or exceeds the Performance of most 3 diode LED Modules on the market on Maximum Efficiency of 24V.  Also, the long module to module wire leads.
       
      Could you just imagine for a second the BrightON II LED modules in the neighboring Coffee Sign at the maximum stretched module to module spacing of 7.625" or 1.57 ($1.33 a foot) modules per foot?  I can!
       
      Something is being left out here and I have to discuss what completes this High-End system?
       
       

       
      That would be adding a France Lighting Solution LED Power supply of course
       
      In this case the 24V France Atlas with built in LED indicator light for proper function, bringing more Quality & Dependability to the project.
       
       
      The most important aspect of this job was the feedback from the client.  They were VERY impressed with their sign when they drove by at night to see what their identity looked like.  Their face will be your face.  These are the types of results you will get with the BrightON II LED Modules. 
       
      Finished jobs will sell themselves.  Happy, impressed clients will sell, and market for you...provided you not only sold them a good product but good service as well. 
       
      Come night, the mere visual can attract potential customers and a resume address can assure and close sales prospects, end results will be referral makers!
       
       
       
       
      FRANCE LED POWER SUPPLIES
      http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/22-led-power-supplies/

       
       
       
       
       
    • By Erik Sine
      So, we finally did it.  It's been kicked around for months, prototypes, after prototypes and locked in on a configuration that we finally liked.
       
      As most of you know the Sign Syndicate we've been testing majority of the main stream LED's since 2008 in a unbiased benchmark comparison, tests such as "The Great White Hope....Project Tighty Whitey...Red Light District...Border Security & Blue Light Special".  Over that time we've seen some characteristics that we liked, made sense, understood what will last and won't.  What it means to be a High-End LED product.
       
      We have sold the NC LED's & Axioms for a few years now, as some of our favorites from the testing (Axioms no longer).  But it's been time to do our own, make it more custom and more perfect for the Sign Industry.  The Brighton line is made from those in the Sign Industry.....FOR the Sign Industry.
       
      It's BrightON, pronounced just like the city. 
       
      So what so unique about the Brighton?  For starters, we wanted it to be VERY efficient.  I don't know of another more bright and efficient LED module in it's class.  155 lum/W and 124lum with a 170˙ Batwing optic lens, most importantly when it comes the sign industry the important number is 63.09 Foot Candles on a sign face per Watt
       
      The important aspects of long lasting LEDs is of course finding the "sweet spot", where it's driven just perfect for light and power.  The Brighton is VERY under driven, less power, MORE light!  These can be spaced out pretty far due to the optics lens, it's brighter in angles than it is straight on, or up.  Under driving  improves thermal performance, which extends life all while getting higher Lumens per watt.  The Brighton LED is a High-End, High Performance LED module for High-End applications.
       
      For starters off the bat we will have a 2 Diode, (no need for a 3 Diode), 4 Diode, and our Sign Cabinet model 6 Diode (SunFire).  Shops won't need to stock multiple module types, the Brighton-2 is so versatile, you can use it for almost anything, just adjust the spacing.  It already comes with 7" inches of wire so jumping from one row to another is easy.  Space the center to center at 6" for good light, 5" center for Better Light, 4" for Best Light.  They're 1.7 mods/foot and work good for shallow 2" applications depending on face type to of course much deeper.
       
      Since these are driven so low, they don't generate a whole lot of heat, BUT, our Brighton-6 (2.8w) is Heatsinked on all Aluminum PCB for longer life.
       
      One of the biggest complaints we have received about LEDs when it comes to large projects like large letters or cabinets is......"We have to use so MANY Power Supplies!"
       
      A nice aspect about the Brighton is, it's a whole 24v system!  Everything!
       
      As sign companies we are redistricted by the Class II regulation of no larger than 5A per channel.  So 12v is restricted to 60watts, BUT....24v is restricted to 96watts.  24v will mean more modules per power supply.  You're now getting almost double the amount of modules for a project.
       
      24V cuts that amperage that runs across the wiring and module in half!  It reduces the resistance, reduces the heat and most importantly IMPROVES reliability.
       
      I think we can all agree that LESS is BETTER, less moving parts, the less you have to worry. 
       
      This is the first part of our Brighton Line, we'll continue to improve it widening the line and of course always always staying far ahead of the curve
       
       
      I'm including some rough test pics of our process and how they fair.  We should have these available in the first part of Fall.
       
      And yes, we will still stock, and continue to sell NC LED Reckless LED
       
       

       

      Early Try Out's, various wattage and diode mfg's
       

       
       
       
       
       
       
      FRANCE LED POWER SUPPLIES
      http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/22-led-power-supplies/

       
    • By toddh@formetco.com
      Sign Installers, LED Video Screen, Service & Installation Technicians (Duluth, GA)    Apply at Jobs@formetco.com
       
      Formetco is a 50-year-old Duluth, Georgia based company that manufactures products sold in four divisions: Billboard Hardware, Digital LED Billboards, LED Video Scoreboards and LED Video Screens. The LED Screen business is very dynamic and fast growing. For additional information about Formetco see: http://www.formetco.com/
       
      This is a full-time position. We are searching for a candidate that is seeking a challenging opportunity, motivated to take charge, learn, grow and desires to take on additional responsibilities. Formetco offers a comprehensive benefits package including 401K with match, health, dental, vision, long-term disability and life insurance, and paid time off in the year of hire. Formetco is a Drug-Free Work Place, and a pre-employment drug test is required.
       
      Sign Installer, LED Video Screen, Service & Installation Technicians – We are searching for candidates to service and install large LED Screens used at high profile locations across North America. We have multiple positions open, requiring a wide range of skills ranging from steel working, crane operation, data communications, high and low voltage wiring, computer operation and networking, along with a high level of customer interpersonal communications skills. This position requires technical knowledge and good troubleshooting skills. We operate in a time sensitive environment, supporting & installing large LED Videos screens.
      Experienced working with LED Electronic Signs, Scoreboards, LED Video Displays and/or experience working in the Billboard Industry is desired. Must be able to climb billboard structures, be comfortable working at heights of 100’ for extended time frames. Work can occur in a variety of weather conditions. Must have good driving record. CDL is a plus. Ability to manage and assist on-site contractors with the installation of large LED screens, from lifting and mounting, primary power installation, data communications, internet connections, sign commissioning and customer sign off. Can answer questions, manage projects, handle on site issues, communicate professionally with subcontractors, customers and manager. Must be organized, responsible person with the ability to analyze problems and communicate with manager and customers. Computer and Computer Network Knowledge Desirable. Understanding of electrical requirements for wiring general signage. Experienced with high/low voltage power distribution and data communications/networking. Good general mechanical skills and analyzing issues. Education or experience in Welding, Electrical and or Computers/Computer networking a plus. 7 Days a week operation. 50% Travel required with overnight travel and limited international travel. Have a valid passport or can obtain one. We realize that candidates will not have all the above skills. If you feel like this is something you would be interested in and have experience working at heights, climbing, overnight travel is acceptable, we encourage you to apply.
      All candidates must have full authorization to work in the US without requiring current or future sponsorship.
      Please list the job position you are applying for in your response. We have multiple job OPENINGS, so we need to know what position you are seeking.
      EOE
      Job Type: Full-time
       
      Below are examples of typical projects






    • By Erik Sine
      Competition Light NOT "Usable Light"
       

       
      As some of you may already know The Sign Syndicate has been testing NC LEDs since 2010 in Project Tighty Whitey, The Red Light District, & Blue Light Special and after the first 8,000 hours I was pretty impressed in "PTW", even in that short about of time we saw no light degradation (Lumen Maintenance). So I was always interested to see how they progressed, err....regressed in light as time went on.
       
      As many of you know, I don't use LEDs as a primary light source for channel letters unless I have too.
       
      When I have had to use LEDs over the years I've always been real careful about what LED manufacturer I use, and there is a VERY, VERY short list of who I use/used because I'm one of the few electric sign manufacturers that offers my clients a 5 year electrical "Worry Free" warranty that INCLUDES labor to change any electrical component out and I stress....."I"...chose to use for their sign.
       
       
      For this very reason you can pretty much chuck most LED marketing brochures in the garbage that states their LED's last 50,000+ hours of operation without loosing any light output. Most of the time they've never even tested their own to see how long they last of they take a result of 2 to 5 thousand hours and project to you the consumer those results which usually show little to none and project them in a slow gradual path of light loss. You can't do that that with LED's, but you can when it comes to light degradation with Neon & Fluorescents who have a much larger case history to go off of and it's just phosphor loss unlike LEDs which have so much more to loose.
       
      Most sign shops stick to the 1 year state mandatory (contractors licensing law) warranty, and "optional" or limited component warranty that does NOT include labor for up to 5 years. So should some component YOU chose crap out on your client then I guess they call you, you get a free replacement from the manufacturer and YOU end up charging YOUR client to replace something YOU specified out.....oh real nice!!!
      With my clients I put my money where my mouth is, so that's why my list of who to use is short, if it goes bad because of what I specified out I eat it, NOT my client!!!
       
      5 years is a long time, and those who pay attentions to the 3rd party testing that The Sign Syndicate has been doing since 2008 knows most LEDs don't last as long as claimed, at least when it comes to "usable" light.
       
      I've been using NC LED for a particular program for a few years now where I have to use LEDs because the use of electrical component clearance is impossible for Neon. Over the years the results have been awesome using NC LED, and of course happy clients.
       
      The main reason why I choose to use NC LED for my program before we even started selling it here which is obviously recent, is because from the testing we have been doing here namely Project Tighty Whitey as it applies here.....there are a few things in common the brighter white LEDs in the comparison that last longer than others have in common.
       
      1st....Their made in Korea, very tight quality control, think "Japan"!.......NOT China where they have quality control issues. Don't let anyone tell you different, there is too much of a track record and case history for INCONSISTENCY and manufacturers have to constantly hold the hand of the Chinese to make sure they're getting consistency and this is why American companies play musical chairs with Chinese plants who make their products.
       
      2nd....Their constant current, or current regulated on each module...NOT constant voltage aka "Eco". So if you're not familiar with that term Constant Current just know each module is 12 volts from the first to the last on a string. A LED module that is ...NOT CC is constant voltage, aka "Eco"! Those are unregulated and the first LED module on a string is different than the LED on the last, or middle. It also means the first LED on the string could be taking a big hit from the power supply because it's not regulated and you'll get faster degradation as well as uneven lighting.
       
      CONSTANT CURRENT vs CONSTANT VOLTAGE
       
       
      This is not to say others that aren't with similar characteristics will last nearly as long (there have been exceptions), in past versions degradation over 15,000 hours or 5 sign years is left on 8 hours a day has been about 0 to 3% of the original illumination, that's something that should interest you and the end user, and newer versions only get better with heat dissipation.
       
      NC LED come with three different diode manufacturers, SOL, LG, & Samsung ("Reckless"). I took a personal hand for us to use SAMSUNG, their white is brighter than the other configurations, it's more of a true 6500 white, and you need bright! The LED colors that we stock are SOL chip.
       
      Every LED manufacturer has their marketing claims on Lumens, Viewing Angle, Lens..no lens, etc etc etc. From the Neon & LED testing we have been doing here on the Sign Syndicate they can throw all that out the window because it doesn't translate into anywhere when it comes to the sign industry, how we use them, and how it makes them last over time. 90% of the time it's just a sales pitch to throw at you on why you should buy their over another one. Who cares about Lumens when it comes to signs...we light up a sign face and only care about surface light! Viewing angle??? Don't get me started!
       
      What do we care about being in the sign industry? That it's bright, and most importantly it lasts over time....well...at least the client does more so than the sign sign shop because it's them who will have to pay to re-retrofit to something else.
      So, we're very happy to offer the NC LED "Reckless" light source product to our members that we know works as an option for your sign projects here on The Sign Syndicate. It's nice to add another High Brightness LED to our line up, AND the Reckless-2 is the brightest LED in it's class of under 1 watt per module and under 3 watts per foot than anything on the market today!
       
      If you're the type of shop that just likes to stick to big name LED manufacturers because you think you're playing it safe and you're also not too familiar with the testing The Sign Syndicate has been doing since 2008 let me just say this. From all the testing we have been doing with out benchmark testing, and we've talked about it a lot in the past. You pay a lot of money to big name LED manufacturers and the product itself is most of the time is average and most a lot of times subpar compared to what's out there from a few small select LED manufacturers. You pay a lot and you get very little. What I mean by that is, you don't get a whole lot of light in return and you could pay significantly less and get a brighter light output and a product that will even last longer. Not all big names, but you'll have to download the quarterly results that we have in the Board forum and judge for yourself.
      Like I said, there are VERY good results from a FEW select companies in Project Tighty Whitey and NC LED is one of those few, AND that's why I'm very proud to offer it to our members.
       
      Why leave money on the table choosing someone else and why not have a more satisfied client using NC LED?
       
      NC LEDs come in both forms, Constant Current "Reckless" as well as Constant Voltage "Eco"(ECO Series), we will be concentrating on the Constant Current versions of these LEDs
       
      Basic NC LED Specs
      • IP68
      • 5 Year, 50,000 Hour Warranty
      • Constant Current (Regulated) not Constant Voltage like cheaper "eco" LEDs
      • Made in Korea.....NOT made in China
      • High Brightness LEDs
      • Samsung Diodes for white
      • Sol Diodes for color
      As I stated above, we're offering 100 of the most versatile NC LED "Reckless" Modules which is the two diode Samsung configuration, the Reckless-2 powered by Samsung for only $79.99
       
      Specification Cut Sheets (Updated 4/25/16)
      NC SS Brochure.pdf
       
       
      Lastly I need to mention that I power up these bad boys with our also Korean made LED Power Supplies by Union Elecom
       
      So if you're burning out those cheap import Chinese LED power supplies, (even the so called "Engineered In America...Made In China.." type) and you can't figure out why after loading your power supply to a safe 50 watts on your 60 watt power supply which REALLY may only be able to handle a 40 watt load because of make, convection cooling, and due to the environment in which it's in you might want to get a hold of their derating curve chart and see what your product may be able to handle.  Plastic power supplies = NOT good.
       
      So....we now stock the Union Elecom Class II, Listed, 60 watt and 120 watt (Dual channel) LED Power Supplies.  These LED Power Supplies are IP68, and  fitted with 1/2" nipples so you can simply hook up the primary with a junction box that has 1/2" thread knock-outs so you don't need a Transformer Box to house your power supply for remote installs.
       
      Again, why Union Elecom if you're not familiar with the name or company?  
       
      First, their Korean, that means high quality standards.  This is what they do, this is what they do best....they make power supplies.....solely!   Unlike some other companies who offer power supplies but it's not their primary focus, they really make LEDs or other products as their primary.  They just "offer" a power supply to go with their LED's.  THAT can be bad and as we all know, we've seen plenty of failure on the field whr we have to come back and replace over and over again!  
       
      UNION ELECOM LED POWER SUPPLY 

       
       
      Members can purchase these LEDs by phone (858) 880-1400, emailing us orders@thesignsyndicate.com or use our online Shopping Cart LINK
       


×
×
  • Create New...